9
   

Is the Head of the IMF a Sex Criminal?

 
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 May, 2011 08:15 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
however your logic is not up to the standard of the title you had given yourself.


Might as well give humor a try, eh, Bill?
BillRM
 
  -3  
Reply Fri 20 May, 2011 08:22 pm
@JTT,
Quote:
Might as well give humor a try, eh, Bill?


Sure as the idea that the head of the IMF would forced his 62 years old dick into the teeth full mouth of a random maid is amusing would you not say?

What next a sitting SC justice?
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  5  
Reply Fri 20 May, 2011 09:00 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:
Madoff gain decades of a life style that he could not had reach otherwise however all DSK have to “gain” was a blow job so sorry I do not buy into either your analogy or logic.

The gain for DKS was nothing and the lost everything so once more the likelihood of the charges bearing any truth to them is near zero.

Madoff obtained his lifestyle long before he started his Ponzi scheme and had more money than he could possibly spend, but wanted more. Should DKS be found to have committed this crime, then it was likely due to feeling that he was above such petty concerns as the rights of the help to refuse his advances. The idea that powerful men wouldn't do such things is refuted by the number of powerful men who have.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 May, 2011 09:23 pm
@engineer,
Quote:
Should DKS be found to have committed this crime, then it was likely due to feeling that he was above such petty concerns as the rights of the help to refuse his advances


And this feeling of power and immunity that you are claiming DSK felt toward the rules of society also gave him assurance that an unknown woman would not had removed his manhood?
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Fri 20 May, 2011 09:31 pm
@JTT,
Quote:
"Sir, you've just committed one serious offense by locking me in this room without my consent. Do you really want to jeopardize everything in your life, your whole life for ... ?"

I think that's the most intriguing question in this entire situation.

I couldn't care less whether the maid is collecting unemployment, or using victim resources, or why she left her native country, or any of the irrelevant speculations about her. She's of little interest if you give her the benefit of the doubt regarding the truthfulness of her account that she was sexually assaulted. And I haven't heard anything that seriously calls into question her credibility. And the grand jury listened to her testimony and indicted Strauss-Kahn, so they must have found her credible--credible enough that the case should go to trial.

I think we have to consider that he might be guilty. But, why would this man risk everything?

Perhaps because he had done this sort of thing before, if not with hotel maids, perhaps with other vulnerable women in menial jobs, and he had gotten away with it. We know he has a reputation for being aggressive in his advances toward women. We know about a French journalist who claims he sexually assaulted her, but she never filed charges against him. This man may be so grandiose about his ability to do this sort of thing, and get away with it, that he never even perceived there was a risk with this hotel maid.

Maybe he offered her money as he advanced on her. Maybe he figured he could buy her off before she fled his hotel suite. Maybe he threated to get her fired or deported if she opened her mouth and told anyone--immigrants working as hotel maids can be easily threatened. We have no idea what he might have been saying to her during the time she was in the suite with him. We know what she claims he did to her, but we don't know what he might have said to her, and that might be important, and it will likely come out at trial.

He won't be the first powerful man who got himself into trouble because of a combination of lust and a sense of grandiosity.

Look at Arnold Schwarzenegger, who had both his pregnant wife and his pregnant mistress in his house at the same time, and risked his political career and his marriage over that affair and the years of deception it involved. It didn't catch up with him until recently, but it caught up to him.

Why would Bill Clinton have risked everything for some blow jobs in the Oval Office from a White House intern? Ultimately it got him impeached. And that was a consensual relationship, but it was an extremely reckless affair, for a sitting U.S. President.

Assuming she is telling the truth, and I have no reason to think otherwise right now, I think the hotel maid was sort of a random victim--she was in the wrong place, at the wrong time, with this particular man. And I don't think he considered the risk because he might not even have perceived a risk, particularly if he has done this before and gotten away with it. I am curious to see how many other women, who previously kept silent about being assaulted by him, might now come forward.

So, I don't think the victim is particularly interesting at all. The interesting figure is obviously this man, who is known for a sexually rapacious appetite, and for making aggressive, often harassing, sexual advances toward women, and who has been protected by French privacy laws, and who might have serious lapses in judgment when lust is a factor--and who might just have jeopardized his entire life over another conquest and another orgasm.

Such character flaws are the stuff of Greek tragedy.





BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Fri 20 May, 2011 09:41 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
Assuming she is telling the truth, and I have no reason to think otherwise right now


No reason except common sense!!!!!!!

Quote:
Perhaps because he had done this sort of thing before, if not with hotel maids, perhaps with other vulnerable women in menial jobs, and he had gotten away with it. We know he has a reputation for being aggressive in his advances toward women


Perhaps this or perhaps that however the one thing we do know is that he have a 100 percents clean record as far as breaking any law is concern for 62 years.

Quote:
Ultimately it got him impeached. And that was a consensual relationship, but it was an extremely reckless affair, for a sitting U.S. President.


Being reckless in your sexual life is not the same as being a rapist or do you not know that?

Oh here is a question for you Firefly what president die in his lover arms not his wife? What president share a girlfriend with a mob boss?

We have a whole list of presidents who had been reckless in their sex/love life but not one who is known to be a rapist.

A connection between being reckless in your love life and a rapist seem not to hold water now does it Firefly?

Quote:
Look at Arnold Schwarzenegger, who had both his pregnant wife and his pregnant mistress in his house at the same time, and risked his political career and his marriage over that affair and the years of deception it involved. It didn't catch up with him until recently, but it caught up to him.


Once more this have zero to do with a man willingness to be a rapist. If a large percents of men who are willingness to run risks in their the sex life was also rapists then no female from 10 to 80 would be safe going outdoor.




JTT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 May, 2011 09:42 pm
@engineer,
Quote:
Madoff obtained his lifestyle long before he started his Ponzi scheme and had more money than he could possibly spend, but wanted more.


I honestly didn't know that, E. He musta been soooome salesman.
firefly
 
  3  
Reply Fri 20 May, 2011 09:54 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
Perhaps this or perhaps that however the one thing we do know is that he have a 100 percent clean record as far as breaking any law is concern for 62 years.

You don't know that. You only know he hasn't been charged before--that doesn't mean he's never broken the law. And you really don't know that he hasn't broken the law this time, with the hotel maid.
Quote:
The New York Times
]May 19, 2011
Calling a Rape a Rape
By ILENA SILVERMAN

Reading the story in The Times earlier this week about Tristane Banon, a 31-year-old journalist who said that Dominique Strauss-Kahn tried to rape her during an interview in 2002, I was struck by the conversation she had soon after with her mother, who discouraged her from filing charges against a powerful man who was a friend of the family. As Banon’s mother, Anne Mansouret, a Socialist Party official, recounted the conversation, she told her daughter: “Listen, you know, if he had raped you, I wouldn’t have any hesitation, but that wasn’t the case. He sexually assaulted you, there wasn’t any rape per se; so until the end of your life, you’re going to have on your résumé, you know, Tristane Banon is the girl who. …” Banon ultimately decided not to press charges.

This mother-daughter dynamic reminded me of the disconcerting scene early in Jonathan Franzen’s riveting novel “Freedom.” This time the victim is 17-year-old Patty Berglund, who is raped at a party by a young man, Ethan Post, the son of a wealthy, prominent couple who are friends of her parents. “Oh, I wish it had been almost anybody else,” Patty’s mother, Joyce exclaims. “Dr. and Mrs. Post are such good friends of — good friends of so many good things. …”

At one point Patty’s mother maneuvers the conversation from a discussion of whether they should go to the police to asking:

“Here’s a hypothetical question,” Joyce said, driving. “Do you think it might be enough if Ethan formally apologized to you?”
http://6thfloor.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/05/19/calling-a-rape-a-rape/


BillRM, it's wonderful that only you know this man is as innocent as the driven snow--the NYPD Special Victims Unit, the D.A., and the grand jury are all lacking in common sense, because they found this hotel maid extremely credible--and she was so credible, that the police had no hestitancy about hauling this very powerful man off a plane so he'd have to answer her charges.
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Fri 20 May, 2011 10:01 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
You don't know that. You only know he hasn't been charged before--that doesn't mean he's never broken the law. And you really don't know that he hasn't broken the law this time, with the hotel maid.


And you can said the same thing about the Pope or any other human being so your point is worthless. In the word you love reckless if a man at 62 is so reckless as to attack at random a hotel maid it does seem odds that in his younger years and decades he would not had been charge with some misdeed.

Quote:
The Times earlier this week about Tristane Banon, a 31-year-old journalist who said that Dominique Strauss-Kahn tried to rape her during an interview in 2002,


So a unproven claim of a woman dating back ten years should carry any weight because of what reason Firefly????
0 Replies
 
talk72000
 
  0  
Reply Fri 20 May, 2011 10:07 pm
It is kinda sad he is out of the French elections. That Sarkozy was on his last legs and now this happens.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Fri 20 May, 2011 10:10 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM, are you aware of this case...he became a rapist in his 50's..
Quote:
The New York Times
March 22, 2011
Ex-President of Israel Sentenced to Prison in Rape Case
By ISABEL KERSHNER

JERUSALEM — An Israeli court sentenced Moshe Katsav, the country’s former president, to seven years in prison for rape on Tuesday.

The sentencing is the latest stage in a sordid case that Israel’s leaders point to as proof of the principle of equality before the law, but also one in which the prestige of Israel’s highest office has been brought to a historic low.

Mr. Katsav, who has consistently maintained his innocence, burst into tears upon hearing the sentence, according to reports from inside the Tel Aviv courtroom, and shouted at the judges that they had made a mistake, crying out: “It is a lie! The girls know it is a lie!”

In December, Mr. Katsav, 65, was convicted of raping an employee — identified only by her first initial, A. — on two occasions while he was minister of tourism in 1998.

The court also convicted him of sexually abusing and harassing another woman and of harassing a third while he was president — a distinguished, if mostly ceremonial, position that Mr. Katsav held from 2000 to 2007. He was also convicted of obstruction of justice.

The sentencing came four years after accusations of sexual offenses were made against Mr. Katsav while he was still the head of state.

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said after the sentencing that this was “a day of sadness and shame” for Israel, “but it is also a day of deep appreciation and pride for the Israeli justice system.”

He added: “The court issued a sharp and unequivocal ruling on a simple principle, that of equality before the law; nobody is above the law, not even a former president, all are subject to the law. This distinguishes the State of Israel in a very large region.”

Mr. Katsav is expected to begin his sentence in early May, after the Passover holiday, though it is likely that he will appeal.

One of his lawyers, Zion Amir, told Israel Radio, “Regarding the sentence, I have no doubt that this was not the last word.” Mr. Amir said he was not surprised by the sentence in light of the “harsh” verdict against Mr. Katsav. Many Israeli legal experts said the punishment was fitting given both the gravity of Mr. Katsav’s crimes and the added weight of his public standing.

Rape verdicts in Israel usually carry a minimum sentence of 4 years and a maximum of 16. The judges said in their ruling that the fact that Mr. Katsav had been president was no reason for leniency. On the contrary, they said, he had abused his authority and standing in order to carry out his crimes.

They wrote that Mr. Katsav’s acts had “brought disgrace on the symbol of the institution of the presidency.” In addition to the seven-year sentence, Mr. Katsav received a two-year suspended sentence and was ordered to pay compensation to two of his victims. No television cameras or radio microphones were allowed in the courtroom during the proceedings and most of the trial took place behind closed doors.

Mr. Katsav had contended that the rape accusation was a plot by the former Tourism Ministry employee, who he said was seeking revenge after she was fired. But the judges who convicted him cited evidence that contradicted Mr. Katsav’s testimony, which they said they found “false.”

Expressing a minority opinion, Yehudit Shevach, one of the panel of three judges who handed down the sentence, said that four years of imprisonment and more compensation would have been sufficient punishment. She cited what she called the “trial by media” and remarks by the attorney general at the time, who described Mr. Katsav’s behavior as that of a “serial sex offender” even before he was formally charged. Mr. Katsav’s lawyers also argued that he had been demonized and condemned by the news media and by leaks and statements from public figures before the trial started.

The other two judges, George Kara and Miriam Sokolov, argued that the unprecedented publicity, some legitimate and some not, was a result of Mr. Katsav’s high standing.

Miriam Rosenthal, a lawyer and former Tel Aviv district attorney, said that the court had neither lightened the sentence nor penalized Mr. Katsav unduly because of the high post he held.

Mr. Katsav resigned from the presidency in disgrace in 2007, two weeks before the end of his seven-year term, to a chorus of public criticism over a deal he had reached with state prosecutors.

According to the terms of the deal, the rape charges against him were to be dropped in exchange for an admission of guilt for lesser offenses. Mr. Katsav was to serve no jail time under the deal. But in a surprising courtroom twist in April 2008 Mr. Katsav backed out of the plea agreement, saying that he wished to fight for his innocence in court.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/23/world/middleeast/23katsav.html



BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Fri 20 May, 2011 10:11 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
Unit, the D.A., and the grand jury are all lacking in common sense, because they found this hotel maid extremely credible--and she was so credible, that the police had no hestitancy about hauling this very powerful man off a plane so he'd have to answer her charges.


At the time of the hauling off the plane they was going by her word alone and that is kind of frightening that in New York State any woman pointing a figure at any man is good enough to have you drag off a plane.

Then the police put out all kind of incorrect informations that he ran out of the hotel and jump the first plane he could get aboard instead that he had a long lunch with his daughter and board a plane he had book a flight on a week before.

Oh yes calling the scene of this "crime" he ran away from and giving the hotel his location so they might get his cell phone to him.
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Fri 20 May, 2011 10:18 pm
@firefly,
So of all the known sexually reckless US presidents we had have in office that was still not sexual criminals you are now falling back on an Israeli president?

0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Fri 20 May, 2011 10:40 pm
@BillRM,
You are firmly convinced she's lying and he's obviously innocent--without a shred of evidence to back up your beliefs, except your firm conviction that most women lie about being sexually assaulted.

Meanwhile, those who have actually interviewed this woman, including detectives who are the most experienced in handling sex crimes in NYC, have found her extremely credible. The D.A. has found her extremely credible--so much so, they took her word for what happened, and charged one of the most powerful and influential men in the world. A grand jury found her testimony credible.

You haven't met her. You know next to nothing about her. But, you just know she's lying.

The man she's accused does not exactly have an unblemished record in terms of his behavior toward women--he might not have a criminal record, but there's been enough smoke in his past to justify a possible fire now. But you just know he's innocent.

I'd wager even his lawyers aren't that sure he's innocent. But, it's their job to get him off, guilty or not, and I have no doubt they will fight tooth and nail and use everything they can think of to raise reasonable doubt--that's their job, and that's what will insure his fair trial.

I hope this does go to trial because I'd like to hear all of the evidence and all of the witnesses.

I also hope the hotel maid does eventually bring a civil suit, but that she does not accept a settlement, and instead lets that one go to a verdict too.

After listening to people like you, it's clear that the poor hotel maid is the one who has to work to clear her name from all the false accusations that are being leveled at her. And all she did, was to report being sexually assaulted by a stranger...

hawkeye10
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 20 May, 2011 10:45 pm
@firefly,
Where does Bill say the woman is lying?
firefly
 
  6  
Reply Fri 20 May, 2011 10:54 pm
@hawkeye10,
He's been asserting she's lying all along. Go back and read his posts.

She couldn't have been forced to perform oral sex because she didn't have a gun to her head, he wouldn't have put his dick in a strange woman's mouth, she would have bitten him, etc, etc. It's inconceivable he'd suddenly become an attempted rapist at the age of 62...therefore, she's lying.

He said, "common sense" tells him she couldn't possibly be telling the truth.

BillRM
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 20 May, 2011 11:04 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
Where does Bill say the woman is lying?


Firefly like to made things up that she claimed you had said and then attack you for the words she had put in your mouth.

One thing about these expert law enforcement types they seem only right and their judgment beyond question to Firefly when they are for prosecuting men charge by women with sexual assault.

Do you happen to remember Hawkeye how on the rape thread she once complained about the “too” large percents of the cases some police department had dismissed as being unfounded?

Expert law enforcement that in this case seem to had have the facts wrong that he ran to the airport to jump the first plane out of the country.


firefly
 
  2  
Reply Fri 20 May, 2011 11:07 pm
@BillRM,
So, do you think she is telling the truth, BillRM?
BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 20 May, 2011 11:15 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
She couldn't have been forced to perform oral sex because she didn't have a gun to her head, he wouldn't have put his dick in a strange woman's mouth


For the record forcing oral sex on a woman is possible and I had never said otherwise it is just damn dangerous thing to do.

Firefly had you yet found one of your male supporters who would placed his dick into a unhappy woman mouth or even think it would be a good idea to do from a safety point of view?????????????

That is one hell of a problem as a man with the judgment to run a large percent of the world economic system would be so crazy does not made sense at least no sense to any male.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Fri 20 May, 2011 11:16 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
Do you happen to remember Hawkeye how on the rape thread she once complained about the “too” large percents of the cases some police department had dismissed as being unfounded?
I remember her coming damn close to saying that a 100% conviction rate represents success...which like a lot of other things she says is outrageous.

In this thread I was under the impression that you have problems with the story this woman tells, but I have not heard you say that you have made up your mind that she is lying. I know that I have not.
 

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