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The Communist Origin of the Modern Conservative Movement VI

 
 
Zardoz
 
  3  
Reply Tue 14 Aug, 2018 09:39 pm
@Baldimo,
Do you have any idea how many books I had to buy and read to research this subject? I have been researching arguing about the communist that founded the modern conservative movement for over 10 years now that gave me plenty of time to locate the needed books and do the research. This post started in April of 2011and it is the forth in a series and the first that ever strayed from the subject. The problem for searching for anything on line that happened 50 years before the invention of the Internet is that much of it has not found its way on the Internet yet and what has is much like an outline. It is hard to cover a 520-page book in two or three paragraph you have to leave out about 519 pages of information. The proof is in the book “Whitaker Chambers” by Sam Tanenhaus. The Internet has spoiled a lot people it is like a sugar high you can find some information but often not the detailed information that is necessary.
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Whitaker Chambers was a card-carrying communist spy he was as far to the left as anyone could possibly be. Chambers wanted America to be communist and was working with Russia to see that America would be a communist nation. The New Deal likely prevented America from turning to communism because it turned America away from greedism. The New Deal took the wind out of the communist’s sail.

____________________________________________________
Why do you think the Republicans were voted out of office when the Great Depresson started? It happened on their watch just like the Great Recession.

____________________________________________________
The Republican boogieman was Alger Hiss we had not been attacked by the communist military until recently and Republicans are not worried about the attack in the least.
0 Replies
 
Zardoz
 
  3  
Reply Wed 15 Aug, 2018 09:22 pm
@Baldimo,
Your belief that Whitaker Chambers was some sort of double agent is BS. In Chambers autobiography he tells us that he became paranoid when he was asked to go to Russia by the communists. Chambers knew from experience that other communist spies had disappeared. At this point he could either go along and go to Russia or run for his life and go into hiding with his family. Chambers stayed in hiding until after the statue of limitations for his crimes ran out then and only then did he contact the US authorities and offer to turn others in if they would protect him. The secretes Chambers turned over to the communists was quite genuine. Chambers was only worried about himself.

___________________________________________________
Leopards don’t change their spots. Neuroscientists now know that a belief system helps physically structure the brain. The pathways in the brain that support a belief system become physically stronger while the pathways that support the opposite opinions begin to wither away from nonuse. The idea that Chambers would be communist one day and decide to be capitalist the next is physically impossible. “The enemy of my enemy is my friend.” However, the communists and the conservative share a common belief they both hate the American government. One of the leading conservatives, Grover Norquist says, “That he just wants to shrink the American government until it is small enough, so he can drag it into the bathroom and drown it in the bathtub.” The communist would like to do the same.
Baldimo
 
  0  
Reply Thu 16 Aug, 2018 08:31 am
@Zardoz,
Quote:
Your belief that Whitaker Chambers was some sort of double agent is BS.

Where did I say that? I only said he was turning against other Russian spies as is the case with Alger Hiss.

Quote:
In Chambers autobiography he tells us that he became paranoid when he was asked to go to Russia by the communists. Chambers knew from experience that other communist spies had disappeared.

He knew about the Great Purge and wasn't going to get swept up in it and killed, he was already becoming disillusioned with what Communism was shown to really be, lies to put people in power. He turned against it, the Purge was the last straw.

Quote:
At this point he could either go along and go to Russia or run for his life and go into hiding with his family. Chambers stayed in hiding until after the statue of limitations for his crimes ran out then and only then did he contact the US authorities and offer to turn others in if they would protect him.

So he hid out for 5 to 10 years before coming forward? From what I can tell, he was a writer for Time Magazine from 1939-1948, is that really "being in hiding" with his family?
Quote:
After early years as a Communist Party member (1925) and Soviet spy (1932–1938), he defected from communism (underground and open party) and worked at Time magazine (1939–1948). Under subpoena in 1948, he testified in what became Alger Hiss's perjury (espionage) trials (1949–1950) and he became an outspoken anti-communist (all described in his 1952 memoir Witness).[1] Afterwards, he worked briefly as a senior editor at National Review (1957–1959). President Ronald Reagan awarded him the Medal of Freedom posthumously in 1984.


Quote:
The secretes Chambers turned over to the communists was quite genuine. Chambers was only worried about himself.

You claim ship and sub info was handed over, what proof do you have of these facts? Links?

Quote:
Leopards don’t change their spots. Neuroscientists now know that a belief system helps physically structure the brain. The pathways in the brain that support a belief system become physically stronger while the pathways that support the opposite opinions begin to wither away from nonuse.

What kind of psycho babble are you putting out? Based on this "theory" that means no one in the world can change their beleif structures, and all their thinking is and beliefs are cemented by a certain age. Links? Proof? Facts?

Quote:
The idea that Chambers would be communist one day and decide to be capitalist the next is physically impossible.

It's you who claims this was a "single" day change. You have no facts to back this up, other than your dislike for a man who turned his back on Communism and then fought against Communism until the day he died.

Quote:
"The enemy of my enemy is my friend.” However, the communists and the conservative share a common belief they both hate the American government.

Conservatives do not hate the US govt, they hate what the US govt has become over the last 50 years, pushing for more and more power over the American people. Communists and conservatives have nothing in common, no matter how hard you try.

Quote:
One of the leading conservatives, Grover Norquist says, “That he just wants to shrink the American government until it is small enough, so he can drag it into the bathroom and drown it in the bathtub.” The communist would like to do the same.

You can't be this dense can you? You don't see the difference between a limited govt and a powerful centralized govt?
0 Replies
 
Zardoz
 
  3  
Reply Thu 16 Aug, 2018 09:22 pm
@Baldimo,
America was founded to get away from greedism of the European countries. Almost all the wealth of a typical country at that time was held by a very few people with a large group of serfs that were often sold with the land. This was long before Marx or communism was even a thought. America’s founding fathers could have adopted that model where all the land belonged to a landed gentry but America wanted to correct some of the inequalities found in the rest of the world. In the beginning America was egalitarian with no concentration of great wealth but with the industrial revolution America began to see great concentrations of wealth but the Great Depression ameliorated it somewhat. Greedism sees nothing at all wrong with the distribution of wealth where a very few hold most of the wealth of country like the countries that existed prior to America. In fact, we have a group of ungodly greedy that are actively pushing greedism today. Trump wrote a book stating soon there will be no middle class in America only the extremely rich and the extremely poor that is the goal of greedism to eliminate the American middle class and their political power from organizations like unions.

Tell me why you think a Russian educated in a communist country like Ayn Rand was qualified to come over here and tell us how to improve our government that had been in place for nearly 200 years? Rand was not a political scholar and had no qualifications other then she was a cult leader. This would be much like letting Charles Manson tell us how to improve the American government.

To start with Scientology is a recognized religion that is no worse than the other foolish god cults. Scientologist have even more faith in their cult then the Jesus freaks.

America was designed to be a collective by the founding fathers every citizen would have a say in government affairs it was forever to be the opposite of the aristocracy that existed at the time.
Baldimo
 
  0  
Reply Fri 17 Aug, 2018 10:23 am
@Zardoz,
Quote:
America was founded to get away from greedism of the European countries.

"Anti-greedism" as you call it had nothing to do with the founding of America. You forget the first "settlers" to come to the US did so to escape religious persecution in Europe. Does Jamestown ring a bell?

Quote:
Almost all the wealth of a typical country at that time was held by a very few people with a large group of serfs that were often sold with the land.

Europe was ruled by Kings and Queens, this is far far different from the type of wealth distribution you complain about now.

Quote:
This was long before Marx or communism was even a thought. America’s founding fathers could have adopted that model where all the land belonged to a landed gentry but America wanted to correct some of the inequalities found in the rest of the world.

They did this with the Declaration of Independence, Bill of Rights and the Constitution. Which none of these documents support your theory of socialism/Marxism.

Quote:
In the beginning America was egalitarian with no concentration of great wealth but with the industrial revolution America began to see great concentrations of wealth but the Great Depression ameliorated it somewhat.

No concentrations of wealth? What history are you reading? Almost every single one of the founding fathers owned a business of some sort, they were entrepreneurs.

Quote:
Greedism sees nothing at all wrong with the distribution of wealth where a very few hold most of the wealth of country like the countries that existed prior to America.

Notice how you conveniently forget to mention that all this wealth was in the hands of Royalty, which is nothing close to people who earn their money operating and owning a business, like we have in the modern day world.
The entire problem with your approach to history is the selective use of history to only try and push your points.

Quote:
Trump wrote a book stating soon there will be no middle class in America only the extremely rich and the extremely poor that is the goal of greedism to eliminate the American middle class and their political power from organizations like unions.

I'm guessing this book was how to get the middle class back in good standing? It likely wasn't a book about how to destroy the middle class. The leftists/socialists have been doing a good job of destroying the middle class for decades now, it's actually the GOP who want to see the middle class become powerful. Did you know that a majority of the wealthiest people in the world live here in the US, and all but 2 of them are supporters of the DNC? The leftist have become the party of identity politics and assign power dynamics in the party based on ones "minority" status.

Quote:
Tell me why you think a Russian educated in a communist country like Ayn Rand was qualified to come over here and tell us how to improve our government that had been in place for nearly 200 years?

She wasn't telling us how to "improve" our country, she was warning us about the spread of socialism/communism and the dangers to the American way of life from these political movements. Someone who grew up in a country with a very powerful centralized, that controlled all aspects of people's lives, was the perfect person to warn us of the dangers of extreme leftist doctrine.

Quote:
Rand was not a political scholar and had no qualifications other then she was a cult leader. This would be much like letting Charles Manson tell us how to improve the American government.

Qualifications? Since when has that ever been a barier on expressing ones political opinion. Sounds like you favor a political class seperate from the average Joe. Joe needs to keep his mouth shut and do what the govt tells him too, so much for Liberty...

Quote:
To start with Scientology is a recognized religion that is no worse than the other foolish god cults. Scientologist have even more faith in their cult then the Jesus freaks.

So you only have a problem with Christians...

Quote:
America was designed to be a collective by the founding fathers every citizen would have a say in government affairs it was forever to be the opposite of the aristocracy that existed at the time.

You don't have a clue as to what you are talking about,, you live in a fantasy world. There is no "collectivist" talk in any of our founding documents. The Founding Fathers were about individual liberty and freedom, not group dynamics. Have you ever read anything dealing with the actual founding documents of our nation? Bill of Rights says noting about group rights, it only speaks to individual rights.

We do no live in a democracy, we live in a Constitutional Republic. Everything the govt wants to do must be weighted against the Constitution and if it violates the US Constitution, it is illegal. You should really read the Federalist and Anti-Federalist Papers, it would give you a much better understanding of real US history.


0 Replies
 
Zardoz
 
  3  
Reply Fri 17 Aug, 2018 08:22 pm
@Baldimo,
Everybody would like to pay less taxes and as for smaller government would you like to cut out bridge maintenance and replacement that should cut out a few 100 million but then the bridges would just collapse like the one in Italy this week. It was Christmas when the Silver Bridge collapsed with bumper to bumper traffic on it 46 people died. WV had no regular bridge inspection program until after the bridge collapsed. Cutting out the yearly bridge inspections could save money to cut taxes no doubt we have millions of bridges. We could eliminate the Police Departments and the Fire Departments everybody could with a gun and shoot anybody they please and everybody already has a garden hose to fight fires with.
But there is one area where this country spends ten times more than any other country on earth, the military, this is where most of America’s tax dollars are spent. If it could be cut back to only 5 times as much it would provide massive tax cuts for everyone.

If you were on the roof of your two-story house during Hurricane Harvey, I’ll bet you would be damn glad to see that government boat. It is the communists that have trained you to hate the American government as much as they do.

____________________________________________________

Do you really believe there should be no limit on freedom of speech? If a neighbor yours got angry with you for not cutting your lawn and decided that he is going to fix you. He goes to of yours place of employment and tells your employer that you have been molesting his six-year-old daughter your and employer becomes so disgusted he fires you. Do you really believe that neighbor has that freedom of speech and remember false child molestation allegations are often made in custody battles?
Zardoz
 
  3  
Reply Sat 18 Aug, 2018 09:19 pm
@Baldimo,
“I’ll say it again, conservatism and communism are on opposite ends of the political spectrum. One group believes in limited government and Liberty, the other believes in no Liberty and total government control.”

Baldimo

___________________________________________________
You cannot say liberty out of one side of your mouth and say you want to control every vagina in America out of the other. Freedom of your own body is the first and the most important freedom of all. How much bigger conservatives will make government to watch and make sure no one has an abortion. This will be that will take a lot of law enforcement resources and court time making government much bigger. It will double the welfare rolls as the people that have abortions can’t support themselves or their families. It will make the drug problem much worse as the children will be born to drug addicts and raised by drug addicts. This will make crime much worse and require more prisons. Those unwanted children will have to be fed, clothed and require medical services. The drug addicts and whores that are forced to give birth them aren’t going to support them every time government forces a woman to have an unwanted child, taxpayers are going to pay and government is going to get bigger. Don’t ever say you are for smaller government because you are not. Your philosophy is going to make government much bigger. You can give lip service to smaller government, but your actions are for bigger government.

____________________________________________________
Law is based on a basic principal and that is what would a reasonable man do? No limits on rights violates that most basic of all principals. Believing that someone has the right to go into a crowded nigh club and yell fire resulting in several deaths is absurd. The right of the night club patrons to live trumps the fools right of free speech. You advocating that are most precious military secrets could be given to Russia because the government employee has an absolute right to free speech. There are thousands of examples where limits are placed on free speech.

Zardoz
 
  3  
Reply Sun 19 Aug, 2018 09:30 pm
@Baldimo,
If you were the only person in the world your rights might be absolute but the problem with rights is that someone’s rights will eventually violate someone else’s rights. Should you be able to tell your neighbor that your buddy is having an affair with his wife when he isn’t? The neighbor then kills your buddy it is absolutely absurd to believe that rights should not have limits. Oliver Wendel Homes is considered one of the of the most outstanding justices and it shows in that decision.

____________________________________________________
There will always be conflicts between one man’s rights and the rights of others. The only way to resolve those conflicts and that is to establish limits on those rights.

____________________________________________________
You are the one that believes that rights should be unlimited. Why should a serial killer’s right to happiness be limited? After all, killing people is the only thing that makes him truly happy. You of all people should not want to put limits on a serial killer’s right to happiness. It seems you would put limits on someone else’s rights.

____________________________________________________
Murder might not be a right, but pursuit of happiness is, and different things make different people happy. Unlimited free speech would end up with a number of people dead if someone yelled fire in a crowded night club. Dead is dead whether at the hands of a serial killer or a fool with unlimited free speech.
Baldimo
 
  0  
Reply Mon 20 Aug, 2018 12:51 pm
@Zardoz,
Quote:
Everybody would like to pay less taxes and as for smaller government would you like to cut out bridge maintenance and replacement that should cut out a few 100 million but then the bridges would just collapse like the one in Italy this week.

I would like everyone to pay less taxes, you seem to think there is a group of people in the US who should pay no taxes. You want all the benefits of living in the US but you don't think you should have to pay for it, only those "greedy" people should be paying...

Quote:
It was Christmas when the Silver Bridge collapsed with bumper to bumper traffic on it 46 people died. WV had no regular bridge inspection program until after the bridge collapsed. Cutting out the yearly bridge inspections could save money to cut taxes no doubt we have millions of bridges.

Like most of history, you shelter the truth to try and make a point. The lack luster emotional plea of "Christmas" when it was Dec 15th is obvious. It should also be noted the the cause of the collapse was due to a design flaw in manufacturing and would not have been found with inspections if they had existed, another issue with the design of the bridge, which caused them to actually tear down another bridge of the same construction.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_Bridge

As a side question, what do you care that it was Christmas, you don't hold any respect for religion, so why try and show a care for the time of year?

Quote:
We could eliminate the Police Departments and the Fire Departments everybody could with a gun and shoot anybody they please and everybody already has a garden hose to fight fires with.

Why is it the police and fire dept and never any of the over 170 social welfare programs offered by all levels of govt in the US? How about funding for Planned Parenthood, a none govt agency? How about the Federal Dept of Education? There are any number of actual socialist programs we could cut from the federal budget, things not listed in the Constitution as actual govt responsibilities.

Quote:
But there is one area where this country spends ten times more than any other country on earth, the military, this is where most of America’s tax dollars are spent. If it could be cut back to only 5 times as much it would provide massive tax cuts for everyone.

The military is one of the actual Constitutional items that the govt is required to spend money on and it isn't even one of the biggest item in the federal budget. We spend more on education, social spending and healthcare than we do the Military/defense budget.
The below link shows a graphic from the 2017 spending bill and what we spend on each dept.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_budget#/media/File:CBO_Infographic_2017.png

This link is for a wikipedia article on the federal budget:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_budget
Quote:
During FY2017, the federal government spent $3.98 trillion on a budget or cash basis, up $128 billion or 3.3% vs. FY2016 spending of $3.85 trillion. Major categories of FY 2017 spending included Healthcare ($1,077B or 27% of spending), Social Security ($939B or 24%), non-defense discretionary spending used to run federal Departments and Agencies ($610B or 15%), the Defense Department ($590B or 15%), and interest ($263B or 7%).[4]


Quote:
If you were on the roof of your two-story house during Hurricane Harvey, I’ll bet you would be damn glad to see that government boat. It is the communists that have trained you to hate the American government as much as they do.

It's funny you mention Harvey, that was the same time a group going by the name "Cajin Navy" went to Texas to help evacuate stranded people, it was good to see govt and civilian groups working together to help others.

Quote:
Do you really believe there should be no limit on freedom of speech? If a neighbor yours got angry with you for not cutting your lawn and decided that he is going to fix you. He goes to of yours place of employment and tells your employer that you have been molesting his six-year-old daughter your and employer becomes so disgusted he fires you. Do you really believe that neighbor has that freedom of speech and remember false child molestation allegations are often made in custody battles?

This is a nonsensical ranting on the freedom of speech, it seems you don't understand what it actually works. This example doesn't even approach what freedom of speech is since it doesn't involve the govt restricting free speech.

0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  0  
Reply Mon 20 Aug, 2018 01:05 pm
@Zardoz,
Quote:
You cannot say liberty out of one side of your mouth and say you want to control every vagina in America out of the other.

Where did I say this? This is why it's important to quote what the person actually said, I went and looked at the post you are replying to, and no where in that discussion is abortion mentioned. Not only that, I don't believe we should ban abortion and I'm not going to defend a position I don't hold. Nice try.

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Freedom of your own body is the first and the most important freedom of all.

Should I be able to clone myself if I can afford the process? After all, we are talking about medical procedures and nothing else.

Quote:
How much bigger conservatives will make government to watch and make sure no one has an abortion. This will be that will take a lot of law enforcement resources and court time making government much bigger. It will double the welfare rolls as the people that have abortions can’t support themselves or their families. It will make the drug problem much worse as the children will be born to drug addicts and raised by drug addicts. This will make crime much worse and require more prisons. Those unwanted children will have to be fed, clothed and require medical services. The drug addicts and whores that are forced to give birth them aren’t going to support them every time government forces a woman to have an unwanted child, taxpayers are going to pay and government is going to get bigger. Don’t ever say you are for smaller government because you are not. Your philosophy is going to make government much bigger. You can give lip service to smaller government, but your actions are for bigger government.

Get off your high horse, you have me confused with some other poster. Try addressing the things I have actually said, not the things you think I stand for, you will most likely be wrong, like you are in this insistence.

Quote:
Law is based on a basic principal and that is what would a reasonable man do?

That is not what the law is based on, stop making things up. You are trying to confuse "interpretation" of law with the writing of law. The "reasonalable man" phrase doesn't apply when crafting a law.
https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Reasonable+Person
Quote:
A phrase frequently used in tort and Criminal Law to denote a hypothetical person in society who exercises average care, skill, and judgment in conduct and who serves as a comparative standard for determining liability.

The decision whether an accused is guilty of a given offense might involve the application of an objective test in which the conduct of the accused is compared to that of a reasonable person under similar circumstances. In most cases, persons with greater than average skills, or with special duties to society, are held to a higher standard of care. For example, a physician who aids a person in distress is held to a higher standard of care than is an ordinary person.


Quote:
No limits on rights violates that most basic of all principals. Believing that someone has the right to go into a crowded nigh club and yell fire resulting in several deaths is absurd. The right of the night club patrons to live trumps the fools right of free speech. You advocating that are most precious military secrets could be given to Russia because the government employee has an absolute right to free speech. There are thousands of examples where limits are placed on free speech.

Stuck on the fire in a theater example are you? How does that relate to modern day speech rights? I'm guessing you think "free speech" is "hate speech" and should be curtailed?

0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  0  
Reply Mon 20 Aug, 2018 01:21 pm
@Zardoz,
Quote:
If you were the only person in the world your rights might be absolute but the problem with rights is that someone’s rights will eventually violate someone else’s rights.

Who's Rights are more important in this case?

Quote:
Should you be able to tell your neighbor that your buddy is having an affair with his wife when he isn’t?

Another example that has zero bearing on Free Speech rights via the 1st Amendment, all of your examples are of a personal nature and not dealing with the govt.

Quote:
The neighbor then kills your buddy it is absolutely absurd to believe that rights should not have limits.

This has nothing to do with Freedom of Speech and everything to do with either murder or conspiracy charges and not speech. You suck at this game free speech game.

Quote:
Oliver Wendel Homes is considered one of the of the most outstanding justices and it shows in that decision.

If your ideal judge does everything is his power to limit your free speech in favor of govt speech laws, speaking out against WWI was the guys crime. Homes said he had no right to speak out against the govt during a time of war... does that sound like a brilliant ruling to you? If we used his ruling during the Vietnam or Afghanistan/Iraq wars, there would have be thousands and thousands of people in jail... Homes was a tyrant and failed to uphold the First Amendment in a case that should have been easy to rule on.

Quote:
There will always be conflicts between one man’s rights and the rights of others. The only way to resolve those conflicts and that is to establish limits on those rights.

Who decides which rights are more important than others and who should be limited? This is the type of crap that leads to the rise of tyranny and it sounds like it is something you would favor, as long as they were a socialist tyrant.

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You are the one that believes that rights should be unlimited.

Unlimited as they are spelled out in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

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Why should a serial killer’s right to happiness be limited? After all, killing people is the only thing that makes him truly happy. You of all people should not want to put limits on a serial killer’s right to happiness. It seems you would put limits on someone else’s rights.

Silly examples are the best you have.

Quote:
Murder might not be a right, but pursuit of happiness is, and different things make different people happy. Unlimited free speech would end up with a number of people dead if someone yelled fire in a crowded night club. Dead is dead whether at the hands of a serial killer or a fool with unlimited free speech.

Woot woot, more extreme's with no basis in reality. Let me know when you want to discuss real examples.


You can always tell when you start to beat a leftist at a debate, when they start loosing they start to come up with more and more extreme examples to illustrate their points, when reality doesn't work in your favor, make **** up. That explains why Hollywood and the entertainment world is filled with such left leaning people, it allows them to craft their own realities.
0 Replies
 
Zardoz
 
  3  
Reply Mon 20 Aug, 2018 09:23 pm
@Baldimo,
The designed purpose of an AR-15 is mass murder to murder as many people as possible in the shortest period. That violates the right to live for thousands of victims. The argument that all guns will be banned is foolish we already had an assault weapon ban in force between 1994 and 2004 and all guns were not banned in fact no more guns were banned.

___________________________________________________
You must read a lot of fiction, but I don’t. Neuroscience is not a pseudo-science. To learn a skill, you repeat that skill time and again. If you are going to learn to throw a football you practice and do it again and again. Why? Because you are rewiring your brain to get better at that skill. There are some schools of thought that you visualize doing something correctly rather than doing it wrong and that visualization provides positive results. There is no doubt that if you can rewire your brain to ice skate you rewire your brain when you embrace a philosophy. If you lift weights your muscles grow stronger the neurons in your brain do the same with use they get stronger and the opposite pathways get weaker.

___________________________________________________
And old saying stated “that you are what you eat” but a far more accurate saying would be you are what you think. Your thoughts actually do make the man. You really don’t follow many different fields of study, do you? You are not very curious about other fields of study.

____________________________________________________
I can’t read fiction. I did when I was a child. My daughter gave me a Steven King book and I did force myself to read it but is the only one in the last 40 years. When I read I want to learn something. If I want fiction, I’ll turn on a movie and go to sleep.
Zardoz
 
  3  
Reply Tue 21 Aug, 2018 09:09 pm
@Baldimo,
You may have read all 1146 pages of “Atlas Shrugged” but I don’t think you understood the books message. It is a roadmap for the death of capitalism as we know it. How you could read anything else the Russian princes wrote is beyond me. The plot of the book, the poor mistreated ungodly wealthy going on strike, is probably the most preposterous work of fiction ever conceived it would rival the most extreme narcissist view of himself. The belief that only the ungodly greedy are responsible for all of man’s accomplishments and the rest of the population is no more then “beasts of the fields” is both offensive and reprehensible. It does reflect Reagan’s worldview that the rich will share the crumbs through “trickle down economics.

____________________________________________________
The facts of Ayn Rand’s life go to show her character. Several people in her cult were well aware of the affair and the break up was extremely messy and public. This happens in most cults the head of the cult is always a narcissist and cult members expected to pay tribute to the great one often through sex, so it was not at all surprising that the Russian Princes commanded a cult member to service her when she was older. Clinton sex life was front page news unfortunately the times were different when Ayn Rand was molesting her cult members.

____________________________________________________
“Atlas Shrugged” actually makes a case for unions in that the way the rich go about achieving their ends is to go on strike. Imitation is the most sincere form of flattery. Rand does not object to strikes but she believes only the ungodly greedy should have the power.

Baldimo
 
  0  
Reply Wed 22 Aug, 2018 09:44 am
@Zardoz,
Quote:
The designed purpose of an AR-15 is mass murder to murder as many people as possible in the shortest period.

That is what you think they are for. Sorry to tell you but the vast majority of gun deaths in the US don't come from he AR-15. Take your lies some place else.

Quote:
That violates the right to live for thousands of victims.

No it doesn't. Thousands of people have not been killed with these types of guns and you can't come close to proving it. Where's your facts?

Quote:
The argument that all guns will be banned is foolish we already had an assault weapon ban in force between 1994 and 2004 and all guns were not banned in fact no more guns were banned.

Only because the stupid ban expired, the left wants to ban guns, they have publicly said so numerous times.

Quote:
You must read a lot of fiction, but I don’t. Neuroscience is not a pseudo-science.

You said nothing about Neuroscience, so to claim I said it was queudo-science isn't being honest. Here's the actual quote, which you fail to produce every time:
Quote:
Quote:
There is no such thing as an ex-communist. Philosophies grow the brain.

Oh please. A political philosphy has nothing to do with one's bio make-up, give the psuedo science a rest.

I claimed that someone's political leanings have nothing to do with their brain chemistry, that is the pseudo-science I said you should ditch.

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To learn a skill, you repeat that skill time and again. If you are going to learn to throw a football you practice and do it again and again. Why?

Muscle memory... you should read about it.

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Because you are rewiring your brain to get better at that skill.

You are actually getting the mind and body into sync to work as one. "Rewriring" the brain isn't what is taking place.

Quote:
There are some schools of thought that you visualize doing something correctly rather than doing it wrong and that visualization provides positive results. There is no doubt that if you can rewire your brain to ice skate you rewire your brain when you embrace a philosophy. If you lift weights your muscles grow stronger the neurons in your brain do the same with use they get stronger and the opposite pathways get weaker.

Which none of this has anything to do with "once a communist, always a communist". If that is the case, then Robert "KKK" Byrd would have always been a racist and his name should be removed from every public building and road, we wouldn't want to celebrate a long time racist now would we? Mind you, this is all based on your silly premise of irreversible brain wiring.

Quote:
And old saying stated “that you are what you eat” but a far more accurate saying would be you are what you think. Your thoughts actually do make the man. You really don’t follow many different fields of study, do you? You are not very curious about other fields of study.

If the thoughts make the man/woman, then people speaking out against Communism want to see the death of Communism, not the death of the US. You oppose yourself with each addition to this post.
Since you can't seem to win any points on this debate, you have to question my knowledge?

0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  0  
Reply Wed 22 Aug, 2018 10:02 am
@Zardoz,
Quote:
You may have read all 1146 pages of “Atlas Shrugged” but I don’t think you understood the books message.

I understood the book perfectly, its you who seems to miss the point of the book.

Quote:
It is a roadmap for the death of capitalism as we know it.

It's actually the complete opposite. The govt in the books was destroying capitalism and pushing socialism and then onto communism when the business people in the books don't bow to their will.

Quote:
How you could read anything else the Russian princes wrote is beyond me. The plot of the book, the poor mistreated ungodly wealthy going on strike, is probably the most preposterous work of fiction ever conceived it would rival the most extreme narcissist view of himself.

It was actually a book about govt overreach and control of the economy. The rules they instituted did nothing but bring the govt more power and didn't solve the public's problems.

Quote:
The belief that only the ungodly greedy are responsible for all of man’s accomplishments and the rest of the population is no more then “beasts of the fields” is both offensive and reprehensible.

Who invented the metal that is talked about in the book, the govt?

Quote:
It does reflect Reagan’s worldview that the rich will share the crumbs through “trickle down economics.

The fact you used "trickle down" economics tell me you don't understand economics. The actual name is "Supply side economic's" and it seems you don't understand how it works.

Quote:
The facts of Ayn Rand’s life go to show her character. Several people in her cult were well aware of the affair and the break up was extremely messy and public.

Who cares, we had a man in the White House getting blow jobs from someone not his wife and you want to rail against Rand and her private issues?

Quote:
This happens in most cults the head of the cult is always a narcissist and cult members expected to pay tribute to the great one often through sex, so it was not at all surprising that the Russian Princes commanded a cult member to service her when she was older. Clinton sex life was front page news unfortunately the times were different when Ayn Rand was molesting her cult members.

This is laughable. When you can't win a straight debate, you revert to personal character assassination? You must be desperate if you are going after a woman's sexuality, how very liberal of you...

Quote:
“Atlas Shrugged” actually makes a case for unions in that the way the rich go about achieving their ends is to go on strike.

It actually does the exact opposite. It was the Unions who were trying to destroy his business with "accidents". Hiring union thugs who's only job was to cause problems and destroy his business so the govt regulators could come in and take over, you know Socialism...

Maybe you should read the book again and see what the unions were actually doing to his business.

Quote:
Imitation is the most sincere form of flattery. Rand does not object to strikes but she believes only the ungodly greedy should have the power.

She believes that the person who owns the business should have the power, not a bunch of workers who did nothing to get the business off the ground when it was first started. You continue to prove you have no understanding of how a business works.

Zardoz
 
  3  
Reply Wed 22 Aug, 2018 09:11 pm
@Baldimo,
You may have read all 1146 pages and you may have thought you understood it, but you don’t have a clue. I not only read the book a page at time and underlined every dirty little idea of that Russian’s philosophy. That way I don’t have to try and go through 1146 pages to find a particular idea of hers. Do you really believe that the ungodly greedy who already have 90% of America’s wealth should go on strike to get the other 10%? Rand philosophy reeks of Hitler’s master race except Rand’s master race is based on economic advantage. In Rand’s philosophy those with wealth are the master race and she makes that point extremely clear:

“Because they are a bunch of miserable children who struggle to remain alive, desperately and very badly, while I–I don’t even notice the burden.”

One of Ayn Rand main characters in Atlas Shrugged

Do you see the narcissist coming out, she is not hiding it?

During Rand lifetime it was an accepted idea that there was supreme race. The KKK in America believed the white race was superior. Hitler believed the Aryan race was superior it was believed to be an ancient warrior race. Eugenics was accepted in Germany and baby Bushes grandfather bought lecturers to America to give lectures on eugenics. Alisa Zinovyevna Rosenbaum chose the screen name Ayn Rand for one reason to disguise her female gender as political philosophy would not be accepted by many men from a woman. Notice also how close Ayn and Hitler name for his master race, Aryan are that is not likely a coincidence. Embracing the idea of a master race is much easier if you happen to be a member of that race. Rosenbaum family owned a drugstore and were members of the merchant class. American businessmen embraced Rand book and bought many copies and distributed them to their employees. They saw themselves as the new American master race and were determined to spread the news. I hate to disillusion you but there is no such thing as a master race only people. That idea pretty much died with Rand only the fringe right believes it today.
Baldimo
 
  0  
Reply Thu 23 Aug, 2018 09:19 am
@Zardoz,
Your biggest problem with Ayn Rand is that she spit in the face of socialism and did everything she could to make sure people understood the true aims of such a system. You could care less about her "communist" past, you are more concerned with damage she did to socialism in the US, so you wage a smear campaign against those who were once communists and then defected and spoke out against socialism. Remember, not every socialist is communist, but every communist is a socialist.

Zardoz
 
  3  
Reply Thu 23 Aug, 2018 09:33 pm
@Baldimo,
If you were a student of history, you would realize what happens when a strong third party develops. One of the two major parties will adopt some of the third party’s best proposals and take the wind out of the third party’s sails. Franklin Roosevelt is responsible for stopping a strong communist movement in the United States. This influence can be seen today in social security, workers compensation, unemployment, and government work programs like WPA. Farm subsidies and price support for farmers also came from that movement. The battle against socialism was over in the early 30s but “Atlas Shrugged” wasn’t published until 1957 when the Republicans controlled the Whitehouse there was no major socialist inspired legislation pending or any large social movement in America when Ayn Rand was “saving” us from socialism. Rand was twenty years to late for the battle.

So, what was she selling? A supreme race of businessmen. One of the major problems in the 50s was air pollution. Pictures of Los Angles are hard to make out any buildings because of the dense air pollution. Rand takes a stand against regulations of any kind. That regulations are bad and just an impediment put in the way of businessmen. If air pollutions regulations had not passed there would be far fewer people in America today. There would be much more lung diseases like COPD. Even now 7 million people die worldwide each year because of air pollution. Rand’s idea that businessmen would regulate themselves for the good of their fellow men is absurd. If a picture is worth 10,000 words search for air pollution in the 50s and look at that pictures of Los Angles. Do you think the business men care that 7 million people die each year? Trump is doing everything he can to push the dirtiest form of energy and roll back the regulations so that another 1350 people a year will die in America. Dying from COPD is especially bad way to die starving for oxygen, but it makes no difference to Trump there is money to made. Trump is not going to live by those old coal fired plants.
Baldimo
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 24 Aug, 2018 01:51 pm
@Zardoz,
Quote:
If you were a student of history, you would realize what happens when a strong third party develops. One of the two major parties will adopt some of the third party’s best proposals and take the wind out of the third party’s sails.

That is true. Look what the DNC did to the Green Party. A good third party would take the best from each of the other parties and use that as their platform. Much like the Libertarians have done.

Quote:
Franklin Roosevelt is responsible for stopping a strong communist movement in the United States.

In what way? He moved towards Communism with his Socialist "New Deal", and even threated a very Communist ploy, he was going to stack the SCOTUS with enough judges that he made sure his ideas were passed as Constitutional, that is the threat of a Dictator and one of the biggest stepping stones towards Socialism/Communism. What he wanted to do flew in the face of the Constitution and he was willing to "stack the deck" to get his way.

Quote:
This influence can be seen today in social security, workers compensation, unemployment, and government work programs like WPA. Farm subsidies and price support for farmers also came from that movement.

All of which never would have passed Constitutional muster without his threats against the SCOTUS. You are right, we feel these repercussions still today with no sight in end.

Quote:
The battle against socialism was over in the early 30s but “Atlas Shrugged” wasn’t published until 1957 when the Republicans controlled the Whitehouse there was no major socialist inspired legislation pending or any large social movement in America when Ayn Rand was “saving” us from socialism. Rand was twenty years to late for the battle.

We are still fighting against socialism, the only thing that happened in the 30's was a President gave Socialism a foothold in the American way of life. Colleges today and over flowing with socialist professors who have twisted the socialist ideology into "Intersectionalism" where everyone is a victim of the system in one way or another.

Quote:
So, what was she selling?

A warning against Socialism/Communism. Mind you it was done in a hyperbolic way, but it was a warning none the less. She had already experienced that form of govt and knew it for the failure that it was. She knew the death and devastation that was brought along with a collectivist agenda and she didn't want to see that same wreck and ruin be visited upon the US.

Quote:
A supreme race of businessmen.

The idea of a person owning a business free from overbearing govt regulation. In "Atlas Shrugged" the majority of the problems faced by the people were generated by the govt, how can a govt that creates the problems actually fix the problems?

Quote:
Rand takes a stand against regulations of any kind. That regulations are bad and just an impediment put in the way of businessmen.

While that is true, we both know that a world without regulations isn't going to happen. I don't think anyone is against all regulations, but govt's can indeed go to far, when you stifle innovation in favor regulation, you do damage to everyone.

Quote:
If air pollutions regulations had not passed there would be far fewer people in America today.

Air pollution standards go to far when they say the very air we exhale, the air green plants breath in, is a pollutant.

Quote:
There would be much more lung diseases like COPD. Even now 7 million people die worldwide each year because of air pollution.

7 million? Considering the world population 7 million isn't that many people, do you think it should be zero deaths and every regulation required to get there should be used?
Do you have any stats to go with that 7 million number?

Quote:
Rand’s idea that businessmen would regulate themselves for the good of their fellow men is absurd.

We don't run our real world on fantasy idea's. I do happen to think a majority would limit their pollution once the science is known, real science not political science.

Quote:
If a picture is worth 10,000 words search for air pollution in the 50s and look at that pictures of Los Angles.

I don't have to, I lived in Denver in the late 80's early 90's and we had the Brown Cloud, which doesn't exist any longer, how many more air pollution regulations do we need? At this point a majority of the regulations that get made are of a political nature Global Cooling, I mean Global Warming, I mean Climate Change being the biggest one of the bunch.

Quote:
Do you think the business men care that 7 million people die each year?

First you need to prove 7 million have died due to pollution and give the actual details of how the people died and how it's tied to pollution. If there is even a sliver of doubt, we shouldn't change the system on "maybe's".

Quote:
Trump is doing everything he can to push the dirtiest form of energy and roll back the regulations so that another 1350 people a year will die in America.

Technology is a wonderful thing and advancement in tech have made coal much cleaner than it ever was in the past. Liberal also prevent the expansion of nuke plants which are some of the cleanest forms of energy around. A Thorium MSR can do things for the power sector than any other "green" form of energy there is.

The left's biggest issue with energy has nothing to do with pollution and everything to do with who makes the money on energy.

Quote:
Dying from COPD is especially bad way to die starving for oxygen, but it makes no difference to Trump there is money to made. Trump is not going to live by those old coal fired plants.

An emotional plea with no facts is all you have?
Zardoz
 
  3  
Reply Fri 24 Aug, 2018 09:39 pm
@Baldimo,
You have absolutely no idea how extensive the Russian military involvement was in the last election. There is another way to use a third party in an election. You can use a third party to pull votes away from one party, so the other party can win the election. We all known that General Flynn attended the celebration of RT, the Russian propaganda network, anniversary in 2015. General Flynn was of course a paid speaker and seated at Putin table. General Flynn later became a key person in the Trump campaign and a main speaker at the Republican convention, but the Republican party was not the only American political party at the RT celebration the Green party was also there. Jill Stein the Green Party candidate was photographed at the same table with Putin and General Flynn. She is being investigated by a Congressional committee she is required to turn over certain documents.

What we do know is that the Green Party pulled votes from Clinton and in the key states where Trump got the electoral votes the green party pulled enough votes away from Clinton to give Trump narrow victories. This is far from a new technique. In one of the union elections my opponent talked someone else into running making it a three-way race. The third candidate was supposed to pull votes away from me and he did but he also pulled votes from the other guy and enough votes to get elected. My opponent could not believe what happened. The guy that got elected had no experience and the pressure got to him and he resigned in a couple of weeks. The third party can decide an election Ralph Nader hurt the democratic party for years and cost Al Gore the presidential election.

The Russian Green Party is a political party that was active in Russia in 2005-2006 is it a coincidence that that name was chosen?

A good book that should be required reading for every American is “Russian Roulette: The Inside Story of Putin’s War on America and the Election of Donald Trump” by Michael Isiko and David Corn

Baldimo this book throws light on how extensive the NRA is involved with helping the Russian take control of America.
 

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