realjohnboy
 
  3  
Reply Sun 24 Apr, 2011 02:10 pm
@H2O MAN,
H2O MAN wrote:

Only an ignoranus would vote for Obama in 2012... it is un-American to support Obama.

So I am an uninformed Un-American ignoramous? Would you like to take away my right to vote because I am not as smart or as patriotic as you?
H2O MAN
 
  -4  
Reply Sun 24 Apr, 2011 02:23 pm
@realjohnboy,
The word used to describe anyone that votes for Obama in 2012 is ignoranus
and none of us have a constitutional right to vote in a presidential election.
Renaldo Dubois
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 24 Apr, 2011 02:39 pm
@realjohnboy,
I'm not even thinking about it yet.
0 Replies
 
realjohnboy
 
  4  
Reply Sun 24 Apr, 2011 04:05 pm
@H2O MAN,
H2O MAN wrote:

The word used to describe anyone that votes for Obama in 2012 is ignoranus

Is that something Rush said which you found to be knee slapping witty?
Below viewing threshold (view)
realjohnboy
 
  10  
Reply Sun 24 Apr, 2011 05:20 pm
@H2O MAN,
With regards to the former, I would say that I am reasonably smart. I know a lot about a few subjects, a bit about others and I am smart enough to recognize that I don't know much about a lot of stuff. I do take the time to research things before tossing out some hare-brained opinion. That takes a certain degree of smarts as opposed to merely parroting what I hear somewhere.
Patriotic? How would you define that? I enlisted in the Army in 1968 and spent a year or so blowing stuff up as a combat engineer in VN. Does that qualify? Perhaps not. What, in your mind, defines someone as being a patriot? Demanding to see Obama's birth certificate, perhaps. Or patrolling the border with Mexico to keep the illegals out. Sending your neighbor's kid off to war?
In what way are you smart and patriotic?
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  11  
Reply Sun 24 Apr, 2011 05:32 pm
I hate the word "patriot" because certain jingoists and fundamentalist types drag it out to accuse the ones who disagree with their politics. But, to me, a patriot is one who does what he can to better the nation in which he lives. I served in the Navy, during the Cuban Missile Crisis, and did not have to be drafted to be there. But that is not all that makes me a patriot. I cared enough about my country to stand up to the Vietnam War and the Gulf War and the invasion of Iraq. I pay my taxes with no argument. I press for the sort of government and economics I believe we need. The dipshits that call a person unpatriotic or whatever haven't a notion of what a real patriot is.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  0  
Reply Sun 24 Apr, 2011 05:53 pm
http://nymag.com/news/intelligencer/franzen-obama-freedom-2011-4/

Quote:
Laying out his deficit-reduction plan last week, President Barack Obama once again tried to be a liberal without sounding like a socialist. For all his oratorical gifts, he’s not done so well at this.

Ever since Obama started Joe the Plumber’s fifteen minutes by telling him that “when you spread the wealth around, it’s good for everybody,” Republicans have successfully promoted the perception that Obama’s brand of progressivism has produced an agenda that leaves Americans vulnerable to the tyranny of tax agents, bureaucrats, and foreign lenders.

But now Obama has found a response to those attacks.

Winding down his remarks at George Washington University, he pulled off a neat rhetorical trick. Obama upended the idea that liberty comes from self-­reliance, making the case that liberty is not constrained by community but a by-product of it.


“We believe that in order to preserve our own freedoms and pursue our own happiness,” he said, “we can’t just think about ourselves.” It’s an argument that (at least to these ears) has an echo of another liberal hero: Jonathan Franzen.

Talking to the Guardian last fall, Franzen asked, “What is it in the national character that’s making us such a problem state?” His answer: “A childish notion of freedom.”

The more adult idea, per Franzen’s Freedom, is that freedom is not what’s gained in the absence of obligations to others but instead found within relationships.

The book warns that freedom for freedom’s sake can make for a grim existence.


<snip>

Quote:
In Obama’s logic, gutting Medicare shifts the burden of health costs not just to seniors but also to their families, who will be forced to sacrifice elsewhere in order to pitch in.

Likewise, shortchanging education shortchanges the bootstrapping entrepreneur with jobs to fill.

Freedom, in other words, costs money, some of which will have to come from higher taxes.

Of course, such nuance is more successful in fiction than in national affairs. But at least our writer-president has found the language to get the idea across.


It'll be interesting to see how this reads to the voting (errr poll-taking) public in the next months.
georgeob1
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 24 Apr, 2011 07:24 pm
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:

http://nymag.com/news/intelligencer/franzen-obama-freedom-2011-4/

Quote:

“We believe that in order to preserve our own freedoms and pursue our own happiness,” he said, “we can’t just think about ourselves.” It’s an argument that (at least to these ears) has an echo of another liberal hero: Jonathan Franzen.


Why do I have the impression that this idea did not originate with Jonathan Franzen and that it is, in fact, rather commonplace.

This mawkish elevation of universal ideas into something supposedly original and highly perceptive is a bit ridiculous, don't you think? A bit of the Emperor's new clothes.....

But then in some New York circles they think their's doesn't stink.
ehBeth
 
  0  
Reply Sun 24 Apr, 2011 07:28 pm
@georgeob1,
I don't think anyone is suggesting it is original as a concept.

What is somewhat original is the way it is being used. Will people understand the costs to them of some of the cost-cutting measures being proposed?

It will be interesting to see how it works for Mr. Obama.

Bloomberg recently talked about how his partner reminds him that the bottom line is something along the lines of "my job. my house". They get it.
Below viewing threshold (view)
georgeob1
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 24 Apr, 2011 07:57 pm
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:

I don't think anyone is suggesting it is original as a concept.

What is somewhat original is the way it is being used. Will people understand the costs to them of some of the cost-cutting measures being proposed?

It will be interesting to see how it works for Mr. Obama.

Bloomberg recently talked about how his partner reminds him that the bottom line is something along the lines of "my job. my house". They get it.

I believe they have posed a false dilemma here. The cost to us all if the government spending spree, and in the case of this administration, the expensive and cynical payoffs to their various organized constituents continue for long will eclipse the difficulties that are being put forward.

If tax rates on the "rich" were raised to 60% there wouldn't be enough additional collections to even seriously dent the growing deficit. Not all of this is the result of the actions of the current administration - the problem goes back to the late 1980s, but for the past two plus years it has pursued what I believe to be precisely the wrong economic policies, adding more to the deficit in two years than was done in the previous ten, and, worse than that, they have worked hard to create the illusion that we really have the choices they affirm and to delude a hopeful public into the belief that it doesn't have to adapt to new conditions. Instead of rational approaches to serious, but solvable problems we get rhetoric suggesting class warfare and continued delusion.
ehBeth
 
  0  
Reply Sun 24 Apr, 2011 08:09 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:
Instead of rational approaches to serious, but solvable problems we get rhetoric suggesting class warfare and continued delusion.


call it what you want.

I've certainly never been a fan of Mr. Obama, but I do find his positioning and re-positioning efforts interesting.
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Apr, 2011 08:34 pm
@Renaldo Dubois,
Quote:
What does he want me to do? Does he expect me to not challenge his points?


The answer to your first question is to behave like a grownup.

The answer to the second question is no, he expects to be challenged with facts and not with ad hominem slurs.
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Apr, 2011 08:36 pm
@edgarblythe,
Quote:
Could somebody really be that immature and/or stupid?


Have you forgotten massagatto?
edgarblythe
 
  0  
Reply Sun 24 Apr, 2011 08:41 pm
@plainoldme,
Massagatto was a special case.
ehBeth
 
  0  
Reply Sun 24 Apr, 2011 08:45 pm
@edgarblythe,
I expected the Benton Harbor situation to bring him back.
edgarblythe
 
  0  
Reply Sun 24 Apr, 2011 08:48 pm
@ehBeth,
It was actually comic to watch him work - for a brief amount of time.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  0  
Reply Sun 24 Apr, 2011 08:53 pm
@ehBeth,
found the Bloomberg bit

Quote:
"The President was born here. I'm a friend of Donald Trump's, he's a New York icon, but I think the Republicans are making a terrible mistake in making [birther-ism] a big issue.

We have immigration, we have the deficit, we have the economy. Those are the things the public cares about.

My girlfriend always says it's about housing and jobs: my house, my job. That's what the public cares about, and if the Republican party doesn't start addressing that, they will lose and they deserve to.

[The back-and-forth between Democrats and the GOP] is good theater, but the country can no longer afford this."

—Speaking out against Donald Trump's birther campaign, Michael Bloomberg sounds sensible on Fox News Sunday today.


http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2011/04/bloomberg_2.html
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  5  
Reply Sun 24 Apr, 2011 10:35 pm
@H2O MAN,
Is it "un-American" to support him at all, or can I support some of his positions and not others?

I dont agree with most of what he wants to do, but you are just as bad as some on the right that said it was "un-American" to not have supported Bush.

Please explain how it can be "un-American" to not support one president, and also be un-American to support another president?
0 Replies
 
 

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