Fido
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Apr, 2011 04:11 pm
@H2O MAN,
H2O MAN wrote:

I believe it is treasonous for the feds to tell the moochers they
are entitled to money the actual workers in this country earn.

The Moochers and politicians are free to leave this country at anytime.
Like it or not; we are entitled unless you want to say what not even the lords of China or Europe dared to say to the peasants: That they owned the land Free and Clear... What ever reason this country has found to put the whole of the commonwealth in private hands, there it must still support the population, or why would they do something so totally crazy??? No one ever gives up all their visible means of support for no promise of nothing... The people know that if they cannot pay taxes, and yet taxes revenues are supporting more and more of the population out of necessity, then it is going to have to be those with the money who will pay to support those without... Or we can all go back to nothin... Start and zero, and decide once again who owns this country and who will pay for it... Do the rich really want to cross that line, or do they simply want you to gripe about it for them so they can plug their ears and not have to listen to it out of their own mouths???
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Reply Thu 14 Apr, 2011 04:15 pm
@Fido,
Today's 'rich' are Washington politicians, lawyers, lobbyist and large
campaign contributors.. we can get along just fine without their kind.
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Apr, 2011 06:24 am
@H2O MAN,
H2O MAN wrote:

Today's 'rich' are Washington politicians, lawyers, lobbyist and large
campaign contributors.. we can get along just fine without their kind.
Agreed, that they are in many respects: The Rich, and in addition, they are the powerful, and they act for the rich and the powerful...

I agree that we can live without them in our politics, but we see so much influence, and the people are powerless to stop it... The people suffer money in politics to the extent that they want for democracy in government, and that is because what we have as a substitute for democracy, which is majority rule does not need consensus, and issues often tip right or left on a majority under the influence of the media or of demogogues...

You know, it is perfectly natural that we should have a commander in chief because we were born out of war... But there is absolutly no reason why we should have majority rule or any rule- including that of money- rather than democracy; and democracy demands consensus...

Now, what are the chances that you and I are going to agree on anything??? Slight, unless we both agree that the situation as it stands is unacceptable... Usually, and if the society is ever run right, then, almost always, there is no great push for action or agreement... Government should have the ability to talk things out, and time to educate the population, and then time to put issues before the people for the people to decide...

Even when there is no reason for haste, issues will not be put before this people... The government is not just anti union, which is to say against democracy in the workplace... They are also against democracy in the country, and they allow people no vote on the actual issues that affect their lives... The government craves power, and the reason is that power can be transformed into money, and money can become power in turn...

I certainly do agree with others that your notions are usually hare brained... Even a hare has the sense to run from danger, or to graze where the grass is tall... This people has the good sense to govern itself... We do not need a representative government that is far short of the representative government our founding fathers left us... We suffer a worn out form of government out of respect for the myth that it works, and blame each other when it does not work... This government is only accepted by the rich because it is so corruptable and amenable to their will... They only hate it to the extent that it leads people to believe in rights and democracy though they be nothing more than shams...

I would welcome a world where all the watermen could be represented.... If we had representation at the rate of our founding fathers, every thirty thousand could send their own version of waterman to congress.... Certainly, waterman there would be as intractable, as fractious and irracible there as here, but the difference would be that if small districts were represented by great numbers, then differences could be worked out in government rather than the people being forever burdened with their differences...

You see how districts are now gerrymandered to give one party or the other a certain victory, but the people are now so mercurial that a cushion of 5% cannot be counted on to provide victory... The system designed to deny so many their representation instead makes your representative and mine both hesitant to act for the majority, and fickle goverment going right this instant and left the next cannot possibly be good for this people... The ideal situation, where all agree should be sought if not found on every issue...

Representatives should represent their districts, and while it might deny individual power to representatives to only represent 30K instead of the 600+K they represent today, their loss would be a gain for the institution which is supposed to represent the will of the people democratically... It is hard for one man to represent two... It is hard for one person to represent 30K... It is beyond impossible for a representative to do any sort of a reasonable job for 600+k when the parties have already worked their magic gerrymandering to produce victory out defeat and for the denial of representation of slightly less than half the people...

For the people to be divided so that government can be united only in the quest for wealth and power is insane... Our unity is a prize we should not be denied, worth working for, and certainly worth a few trials for treason...Our unity may be the difference between defeat and victory in some future war of survival..

You see, that when representatives go against the will of their districts they do so on principal which is another way of saying for the money... Well, If a representative was representing few, but a few with common interests who were united in their goals, then he would go to Washington determined to represent only one principal: That those who elected him should have their say, their chance to influence legislation, and their chance to veto all that interfered with their well being... If you want to limit government, then limit it to doing as the people tell it to do, and limit the ability of lawyers and lobbyists to influence the course of government for their benefit...
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Apr, 2011 07:39 am
In opposing any tax increase on the wealthy, the right loves to point out what a big percentage of all tax comes from the rich. However, we have always had an "ability-to-pay" tax system. Looking at the situation this way, the rich are grossly undertaxed.
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Reply Fri 15 Apr, 2011 07:49 am
@Advocate,
The moochers are grossly under worked and over paid.
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Reply Fri 15 Apr, 2011 07:50 am
@Advocate,
NOTHING in the 16th Amendment authorizes DISCRIMINATION.

Every citizen shoud be taxed at the same rate as all other citizens.


In fairness, I can understand adding a cap
such that no human taxpayer will ever pay more than $1,000,000.


David
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Apr, 2011 11:18 am
@H2O MAN,
H2O MAN wrote:

The moochers are grossly under worked and over paid.
I hope we can agree that the blood sucker, moocher rich create no value what so ever and are paid only for the effort they expend in triming excess value from the creative and productive people in this world... Do you suppose there is some good reason why working people should spend 1/3 of every working day serving the profit of the rich... How long have we had the eight hour work day and how often in that period of time has the ability to produce per man hour been doubled??? We do not need to work so long for so little... The rich are not just paying for our labor, but our time as well, and time is life, but with being paid so little for so much we find at the end of our lives that we cannot retire, but must keep on wit it... We must now serve the bosses till we drop, and when we drop the meter will start running on us so that all we have put aside in the course of our lives can be drained out of our estates... And only then will they hasten our deaths, when there is no one to pay our bills...What is your life worth to you that you will sell it for nothing more than the price of keeping it in poverty???
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Reply Fri 15 Apr, 2011 11:21 am
@Fido,
Fido, the 'rich' are the ones that creat companies and jobs, they hire people, put them to work and pay them for the job they do.
The moocher class create nothing of value, they take and take and take, vote for democrats and then go back to taking from others.
Moochers are slaves to democrats.
Fido
 
  0  
Reply Fri 15 Apr, 2011 11:24 am
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:

NOTHING in the 16th Amendment authorizes DISCRIMINATION.

Every citizen shoud be taxed at the same rate as all other citizens.


In fairness, I can understand adding a cap
such that no human taxpayer will ever pay more than $1,000,000.


David
Agreed, and let's divide up the commonwealth evenly to make that possible... One man gives his life to his job, and takes little from it, and another gives little to his job and takes everything from it... Is it fair that the one who takes so much should pay only what that one who gets so little can afford... Life is fair... No one can say that life is not fair... Everyone pays for their life with their life, and when it is done all debts are paid, and nothing else is due... But what people do to people, even their own families and countrymen is not fair, and perhaps has never been fair, and sometimes, and this is difficult for the reactionaries: SOMETIMES people have got to use their heads if they want some approximation of equality... For those with more to pay more is equality...
Fido
 
  0  
Reply Fri 15 Apr, 2011 11:40 am
@H2O MAN,
H2O MAN wrote:

Fido, the 'rich' are the ones that creat companies and jobs, they hire people, put them to work and pay them for the job they do.
The moocher class create nothing of value, they take and take and take, vote for democrats and then go back to taking from others.
Moochers are slaves to democrats.
They do not create ****... There was food production before some Yahoo built a factory for that purpose, and the ones creating the jobs are the ones doing the jobs, because if they could not do so profitably there would be no job to go back to... Capital gets its share in this land because it does not pay what it takes to produce anything, or to put it in terms you may better understand: They sell above the price of taxation and production...Capital takes its share and in the process drives down the price of labor so that wages are no favor bestowed upon the working class, but are far worse than what is due, and usually far less than what is required so that the working man together or alone can never amass any capital, and can never market good ideas or improve technology usless they do so for free... The capitalist class is a breed of parasites who justify their work though mouthparts like you own, who do not realize the implications of what they are saying... I hear you: Don't tax the rich who have all the money, who collect profits on one end of production and hopes and dreams from the people who produce for them, and instead tax the poor who have already been robbed of their rights, and of their lives, and who have too often made the ultimate sacrifice for their employers... Tax the poor??? Do you know how incredibly stupid you seem to say such things... Think about it, because work is tax... No one can legally work unless they agree to be taxed... And no one can work if they do not agree to profit being taken from their hard work... When the rich pay tax it is on the money they have already squeezed out of the working class... And you want the government to squeeze the poor for more... You must be some kind of humanitarian...
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Apr, 2011 11:40 am
@Fido,

Fido, are u a communist ??
parados
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Apr, 2011 11:47 am
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:


Fido, are u a communist ??



Are you Joe McCarthy?
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Apr, 2011 11:49 am
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:


Fido, are u a communist ??
I am not anything of the sort... Many economist before Marx showed how labor creates value... So labor carries a whole land, and you want labor to carry it twice... I am not an idealist of any sort... Ideals are the problem and not the solution... You should remember that this republican government in league with capitalism is an ideal as well; and blind as you often seem, even you should recognize when the ideal is failing, and reality is not following the predicted course...

Hell; a big share of the deficit is the result of capitalism being on life support from the government, and we see that it is not from a lack of money since the rich have money enough to loan the government if there is some prospect of the government collecting from the people... Still, it is the job of the economy to support the society, and our society is instead supporting the economy... It does not make sense, and it (government supporting capitalism) never has...
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Fri 15 Apr, 2011 11:53 am
@parados,
OmSigDAVID wrote:


Fido, are u a communist ??
parados wrote:

Are you Joe McCarthy?
No; sadly, he has passed on.
I guess u don 't know that.
I was and am a big supporter of his; fine fellow!





David
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Apr, 2011 11:57 am
@parados,
parados wrote:

OmSigDAVID wrote:


Fido, are u a communist ??



Are you Joe McCarthy?

If he is he is certainly a smarter version of... Joe could have survived forever making baseless charges about communists on the loose... What he could not survive was the numbers, because once he put them on paper he had to find them... Oppenheimer did great service to this country, and maybe he needed friends too much to stay alone, but to tag him as a communist, for example, deprived this land of a first rate mind in order to further a handful of second rate demagogues...

All of this king of the **** pile politics has really served this country badly... Too many hate to educate the poor out of fear of social mobility... If their kids have no talent then they should fall by the wayside and the best should rise... No... People have to be robbed of their futures from the start even if that means the whole nation is robbed of its future for the benefit of a handful of rich... We do not need them... They need us..
0 Replies
 
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Apr, 2011 11:58 am
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:

OmSigDAVID wrote:


Fido, are u a communist ??
parados wrote:

Are you Joe McCarthy?
No; sadly, he has passed on.
I guess u don 't know that.
I was and am a big supporter of his; fine fellow!





David
And a world class boooooze hound...
parados
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Apr, 2011 12:00 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
For someone claiming to be in MENSA, you don't seem to understand anything more then simple concepts.
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Reply Fri 15 Apr, 2011 12:01 pm
@Fido,
Any time a society attempts to redistribute the wealth evenly
everyone suffers because the moochers outnumber the earners.
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 15 Apr, 2011 12:02 pm
@Fido,
Fido wrote:

H2O MAN wrote:

Fido, the 'rich' are the ones that creat companies and jobs, they hire people, put them to work and pay them for the job they do.
The moocher class create nothing of value, they take and take and take, vote for democrats and then go back to taking from others.
Moochers are slaves to democrats.
They do not create ****...


Bad dog!
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Apr, 2011 12:03 pm
@H2O MAN,
H2O MAN wrote:

Any time a society attempts to redistribute the wealth evenly
everyone suffers because the moochers outnumber the earners.

Which society are you talking about?
 

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