parados
 
  0  
Reply Sat 16 Apr, 2011 11:27 am
@Renaldo Dubois,
Renaldo Dubois wrote:

Wikipedia is not a credible source. I'm surprised you wouldn't know that. People who use Wikipedia on the internet are not taken seriously.

You will notice, 0r maybe you don't bother paying attention, I linked to the Canadian study to provide support for the wiki article.

It's you that isn't taken seriously Renaldo. You have given no reason to be taken seriously. You don't address the issue of wait time in the US even though I showed it is sometimes longer than in Canada.
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Sat 16 Apr, 2011 11:33 am
@Renaldo Dubois,
Wikipedia isn't a credible source but Renaldo Dubois is? Pull the other one, Blanche.
0 Replies
 
Renaldo Dubois
 
  2  
Reply Sat 16 Apr, 2011 11:44 am
@parados,
No one on the right can give you a reason to take them seriously. Is that supposed to mean something? I'm not here to be taken seriously by those who mock and ridicule decent, good honest American citizens. That would be like shaking hands with a skunk and expecting to walk away still smelling like a human.
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Sat 16 Apr, 2011 11:51 am
@Renaldo Dubois,
Quote:

President’s page: the U.S. healthcare system 2010: problems, principles, and potential solutions

Arthur Garson, Jr., MD, MPH, FACC


Ten years ago, the U.S. healthcare system was declared "broken." Since that time and especially in the last year, during my term as president of the American College of Cardiology (ACC), it has become increasingly apparent to me that the system has not improved: The fixes promised by the health maintenance organizations have not materialized; healthcare premiums are again on the rise; hassles for patients and physicians abound; and there are now almost 45 million people uninsured—about the same as the entire population of Canada plus Australia. Problems that 10 years ago were considered to affect only isolated parts of society now are beginning to encroach on all of us. In the next 10 years, the current and accelerating trends with costs and the uninsured will reach a critical juncture. Major change in the system will be required.


http://content.onlinejacc.org/cgi/content/full/35/4/1048
Renaldo Dubois
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Apr, 2011 11:52 am
@JTT,
Who declared the American health care system broken?
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Apr, 2011 11:55 am
@Renaldo Dubois,
Certainly not the greedy shits running the present health care insurance scam, Ren.
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Sat 16 Apr, 2011 12:03 pm
@Renaldo Dubois,
Quote:
Would you agree with me that cancer patients have a better success rate in the USA than anywhere else in the world?


Would you agree that you are cherry picking?


Quote:

The Case For Single Payer, Universal Health Care For The United States

Outline of Talk Given To The Association of State Green Parties, Moodus, Connecticut on June 4, 1999

By John R. Battista, M.D. and Justine McCabe, Ph.D.



Myth One: The United States has the best health care system in the world.

Fact One: The United States ranks 23rd in infant mortality, down from 12th in 1960 and 21st in 1990

Fact Two: The United States ranks 20th in life expectancy for women down from 1st in 1945 and 13th in 1960

Fact Three: The United States ranks 21st in life expectancy for men down from 1st in 1945 and 17th in 1960.

Fact Four: The United States ranks between 50th and 100th in immunizations depending on the immunization. Overall US is 67th, right behind Botswana

Fact Five: Outcome studies on a variety of diseases, such as coronary artery disease, and renal failure show the United States to rank below Canada and a wide variety of industrialized nations.

Conclusion: The United States ranks poorly relative to other industrialized nations in health care despite having the best trained health care providers and the best medical infrastructure of any industrialized nation


http://cthealth.server101.com/the_case_for_universal_health_care_in_the_united_states.htm


parados
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Apr, 2011 04:13 pm
@Renaldo Dubois,
Renaldo Dubois wrote:

No one on the right can give you a reason to take them seriously. Is that supposed to mean something? I'm not here to be taken seriously by those who mock and ridicule decent, good honest American citizens. That would be like shaking hands with a skunk and expecting to walk away still smelling like a human.

If you aren't willing to address the issues but only argue that the source is not credible while providing no source of your own contradicting, then I see no reason to take you seriously.

The only thing serious about you Renaldo is that are a serious lightweight when it comes to discussing anything in depth.
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Reply Sat 16 Apr, 2011 05:02 pm
@JTT,
JTT wrote:

Certainly not the greedy shits (DEMOCRATS) running the present health care insurance scam, Ren.


That's better.
0 Replies
 
Renaldo Dubois
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Apr, 2011 05:26 pm
@JTT,
Why do you hate America so much that you can't even give credit where credit is due?
Renaldo Dubois
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Apr, 2011 05:27 pm
@parados,
Why, of course. You keep telling yourself that until you believe it. We already know you lefties live in an alternative universe.
Renaldo Dubois
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Apr, 2011 05:32 pm
I went to a Tea Party today. Lots of fun. Educational. Didn't see any racist signs. I even asked where all the racists were at and no one knew. It was in Spokane, Washington. I guess there must not be any racist Tea Party people around there. Perhaps the racist Tea Partiers are in Wisconsin with Sarah Palin.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110416/ap_on_re_us/us_wisconsin_tax_rally
parados
 
  0  
Reply Sat 16 Apr, 2011 05:59 pm
@Renaldo Dubois,
I don't have to tell myself that. The evidence is right here on this thread.
You asked for evidence of the waiting times being less in Canada. I posted a link to a government report from Canada that measures those times. You simply ignore the evidence and change the subject.

You keep telling yourself that no one will notice your failures when they are so visible.
Renaldo Dubois
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Apr, 2011 06:39 pm
@parados,
What do you want, a pat on the back? I still have better health care. The USA has the best cancer care in the world. At least we will until ObamaCare takes over and makes it second rate like Canada's.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Apr, 2011 07:31 pm
@Renaldo Dubois,
Quote:
Why do you hate America so much that you can't even give credit where credit is due?


I don't hate America at all. I hate what it does to the poor and innocent around the world.

What I dislike is clowns like you who can't even face up to the facts; clowns like you who just keep vomiting perfidy, spewing up lies about how great the US is when it has a great deal about it that is pure evil.

Mixed in with that evil is a large amount of good but it's not coming from folks like you who not only support the terrorism/mass murder/war crimes that the US commits around the world, you also seek to deny your own citizens the chance for decent health care. This from the wealthiest nation on the planet.

Ironic isn't it, that the wealthiest nation is also the stingiest? And you only have to look at your own behavior to see the parallel.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Apr, 2011 07:49 pm
@Renaldo Dubois,
Quote:
I even asked where all the racists were at and no one knew. It was in Spokane, Washington.


Of course, the Inland Empire is hardly known as a hotbed of racism. I guess that it's still a little early for the snakes to be out. Probably still hibernating under rocks and such.

Quote:
Moving to North Idaho to Live Among "Adamic White Aryans"

In the fall of 1995, following six months of travel, the duo settled in Sandpoint, Idaho. "We crossed the bridge into Sandpoint and said, 'Voila, this is it!'" Bertollini told a reporter from the Spokane Spokesman-Review.

Why did Story and Bertollini choose Sandpoint? "North Idaho was selected for its clean air, beautiful scenery, quiet life style, recreation, lack of crowds, low cost of living, low violent crime," they write, "but above all, more than 98 percent of North Idaho's population is of the Adamic White Aryan people."

With a population shy of 6,000, Sandpoint rests at the tip of the Idaho panhandle, just south of the Canadian border. Agriculture, the arts, timber and tourism flourish there. Sandpoint is also in an area that many white supremacists have hoped would become an "Aryan" homeland.

Extremists associated with the Aryan Nations paramilitary Identity group are particularly fond of this scenario. Sandpoint is roughly 40 miles from the Aryan Nations compound in Hayden Lake, Idaho. The late Robert Miles, once the Midwest coordinator for that group, urged white supremacists to move to the Pacific Northwest to form a whites-only nation in the states of Washington, Idaho, Montana, Wyoming and Oregon. In 1989, Miles sold his Michigan farm and moved to Oregon. The leader of Aryan Nations, Richard G. Butler, moved from Southern California to Northern Idaho in 1973 and has encouraged whites to build a "national racist state" in the region. Many violent extremist criminals have affiliated themselves with Aryan Nations, including Buford Furrow, who attacked a Jewish daycare center in Los Angeles in the summer of 1999, and members of the murderous white supremacist terrorist gang, The Order.

The Identity group America's Promise Ministries, led by Dave Barley, is located in Sandpoint. In 1996, three of Barley's supremacist congregants went on a terror spree in nearby Washington State, bombing a newspaper plant and a Planned Parenthood clinic and twice robbing the same bank. Each was convicted on eight counts of robbery and bomb making.

During their first few years in Sandpoint, Story and Bertollini did not draw public attention to their beliefs, though they reportedly were known around town for riding motorcycles and leaving big tips at restaurants. In December 1996, Joyce Riley, a regular lecturer at the numerous Preparedness Expos that cater to anti-government "patriots," gave two lectures in Sandpoint promoted by America's Promise Ministries. Her speeches were described at length in two major extremist publications, The Jubilee and The Spotlight. Bertollini later admitted that he and Story bankrolled the Riley presentations, but did so covertly. It was not until two years later that they stepped into the public spotlight.

http://www.adl.org/tycoons/The_Move.asp


Quote:
Alarming Rise in White Supremacist Activity in North Idaho Region
Submitted by Sisyphus on Thu, 01/20/2011 - 4:42pm.
Its becoming a full time job tracking incidents of racism in Idaho since Obama was elected. Some on the right prematurely declared racism dead as a result of Obama's victory. Governor Otter even sought to permanently get rid of the Idaho Human Rights Commission and the Hispanic Commission on the grounds that these agencies were not fulfilling the proper role of government. Otter is apparently oblivious to the role government played in providing equality for all regardless of race in the Civil Rights Act, desegregation, the Voting Rights Act, and the Civil War. Worse, Otter's mindset, which permeates Republican politics in Idaho, signaled tolerance for the intolerant, assisting Idaho in achieving the rank as the the 45th most intolerant state. White supremacists have clearly been quite busy.

In the last week in Coeur d'Alene, white supremacists picketed two taco stands and protested across from the Human Rights Institute on MLK day. On Tuesday night, someone burned a cross in the park in Kellogg. This past winter the residents of 9656 Hillview Drive in Hayden, Idaho built a KKK snowman complete with noose, which they toppled when cops asserted it could be viewed as threatening by their neighbors. These same residents have a habit of yelling "white power" when entering and leaving the residence to taunt and annoy their neighbors. And the coup de grace of this activity was the placement of a sophisticated bomb capable of inflicting many casualties on the MLK Day parade route in Spokane, Washington, just forty miles away. Contrary to media assertions this should not be considered an isolated incident. Interesting that their public protests seem to give this group an alibi for the failed bombing attempt.

This is not written to blame Republicans or Idaho's governor for the violent actions of white supremacists. Most of Idaho rallied as a state to defeat the Aryan Nations in the 1980s. Moreover Idaho's legislature found alternatives to permanently dismantling Idaho's Human Rights Commission. But that does not obviate the need to constantly be vigilant in confronting racism, an Idaho value upon which they seem willing to capitulate. Lately in Idaho, there has been mainstreaming of fringe movements into Republican party politics coupled with violent rhetoric emanating 24/7 from the right wing noise machine. Through inaction Republicans seem ignorant of the consequences of these activities giving them the appearance of being eerily tolerant for people advocating intolerance within their ranks, an intolerance which would be alarming to them if it came from minorities. I have no doubt if a group of Hispanics chose to march on Boise to assert their second amendment rights, action from the statehouse would be swift and confrontational.

Republicans and their backers created a monster in fomenting the astroturfed tea party movement created using similar anti-government de-legitimizing rhetoric as that used by white supremacists. Political leaders should confront harmful hyperbolic rhetoric as happened recently when Democratic leaders chastised a Democratic congressman who made an unfortunate comparison of Republican lies in the health care debate to the rise of Nazis in Germany. Yet instead of discouraging this, Republicans credit tea baggers in lighting a fire under their base. There can be no doubt that the lions share of this toxic commentary is on the right side of the aisle. Here is a fairly comprehensive and documented list of such rhetoric plus incidents of violence in just the last two years, starting with the SCOTUS recognition of a right of insurrection in the second amendment. This list does not include the dog whistle tactics to racists thinly veiled in the baseless criticisms against ACORN or singling out Fannie and Freddie as primary culprits in the economic collapse. As with these other incidents, the rise of white supremacist activity in Idaho should come as no surprise when we allow such an environment for them to have hope of increasing their ranks

http://www.43rdstateblues.com/?q=node/5768


Quote:
Ex-Aryan Nations lawyer's trial to begin in Idaho
By NICHOLAS K. GERANIOS
The Associated Press
COEUR D'ALENE, Idaho — An attorney known for representing white supremacists goes on trial in federal court on Monday, charged with hiring a hit man to kill his wife and mother-in-law.

Edgar J. Steele's wife insists her husband is innocent and has been set up by the government because of his anti-Semitic, white-supremacist views and for representing clients such as Aryan Nations.

"My husband is innocent, and the only reason the [FBI] put him in jail is to silence him," Cyndi Steele said after his June 11 arrest.

Federal prosecutors say they have plenty of evidence against Steele, 65, including tape recordings of him talking with the hit man about killing his wife. Prosecutors have said Steele was after insurance money and also wanted to pursue a woman in Ukraine.

Court documents contend Steele, for some time, had been building a relationship with a woman in Ukraine and sent her a letter even after his arrest. Cyndi Steele said the Ukrainian woman was involved in a "Russian-bride" scam and that her husband had been hired by the victim to bring down the human-trafficking ring.

Steele is a Coast Guard veteran and UCLA law graduate who practiced for years in Sandpoint, Idaho.

http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/mobile/?type=story&id=2014421235&


0 Replies
 
Renaldo Dubois
 
  2  
Reply Sun 17 Apr, 2011 06:19 am
That's nice. Looks like you might have found a home.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Apr, 2011 07:16 am
@Renaldo Dubois,
Renaldo Dubois wrote:

What do you want, a pat on the back? I still have better health care. The USA has the best cancer care in the world. At least we will until ObamaCare takes over and makes it second rate like Canada's.

On what basis do you make that claim?
By most metrics the US does NOT have the best health care in the world.
Renaldo Dubois
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Apr, 2011 07:22 am
@parados,
I said we have the best CANCER care in the world. That is an established fact.
raprap
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Apr, 2011 07:54 am
@parados,
The WHO in 2000 rated overall US medical care at 37th. Canada at 30.

Quote:
Rank Country

1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel
29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 United States of America

38 Slovenia
39 Cuba
40 Brunei
41 New Zealand
42 Bahrain
43 Croatia
44 Qatar
45 Kuwait
46 Barbados
47 Thailand
48 Czech Republic
49 Malaysia
50 Poland
51 Dominican Republic
52 Tunisia
53 Jamaica
54 Venezuela
55 Albania


http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html

Thats pretty bad or a country that rates second on health care as a percentage of GDP

Quote:
Total Expenditure on Health as % of GDP 2000-2005

Rank Location 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005
------- --------------------------------------------- ------- ------- ------- ------- ------- -------
1 Marshall Islands 22 19.1 18.4 16.3 13.2 15.4
2 United States of America 13.2 13.9 14.7 15.1 15.2 15.2
3 Niue 8 38.1 11.1 12.5 15.5 14.5
4 Timor-Leste 8.8 8.6 8.5 9.2 10.3 13.7
5 Micronesia (Fed. States of) 9 9.8 9.1 10.7 11.7 13.5
6 Kiribati 11.6 12.3 12.6 13.7 13.7 12.7
7 Maldives 6.8 6.8 6.6 7.2 7.8 12.4
8 Malawi 6.1 7.8 10 12.8 12.8 12.2
9 Switzerland 10.3 10.7 11 11.4 11.4 11.4
10 France 9.6 9.7 10 10.9 11 11.2
11 Germany 10.3 10.4 10.6 10.8 10.6 10.7
12 Jordan 9.4 9.6 9.3 9.3 10.1 10.5
13 Nauru 11 10.8 10.6 10.3 10.4 10.3
14 Argentina 8.9 9.5 8.9 8.3 9.6 10.2
15 Austria 10 10 10.1 10.2 10.3 10.2
16 Portugal 8.8 8.8 9 9.7 10 10.2
17 Greece 9.3 9.8 9.7 10 9.6 10.1
18 Canada 8.8 9.3 9.6 9.8 9.8 9.8
19 Sao Tome and Principe 6.3 9.1 8.6 11.9 12.1 9.8
20 Belgium 9.1 9.3 9.5 9.5 9.7 9.6
21 Palau 9.7 9.1 10.1 11.5 9.7 9.6
22 Denmark 8.3 8.6 8.8 9.3 9.4 9.4
23 Iceland 9.3 9.2 9.9 10.2 9.9 9.4
24 Netherlands 8 8.3 8.9 8.9 9 9.2
25 Sweden 8.2 8.6 9 9.1 9.2 9.2
26 Norway 8.4 8.8 9.8 10 9.7 9.1
27 Italy 8.1 8.2 8.3 8.3 8.7 8.9
28 New Zealand 8.1 8.3 8.5 8.4 8.5 8.9
29 Australia 8.3 8.4 8.6 8.6 8.8 8.8
30 Bosnia and Herzegovina 7 6.9 7.7 8.1 8.6 8.8
31 Tuvalu 13.4 10.5 9.4 11.1 9.2 8.8
32 Lebanon 11 10.7 9.4 8.9 8.8 8.7
33 South Africa 8.1 8.4 8.3 8.4 8.5 8.7
34 Georgia 7.4 7.8 8.7 8.5 8.5 8.6
35 Slovenia 8.4 8.7 8.8 8.8 8.5 8.5
36 Malta 6.8 7.2 7.8 8.1 8.2 8.4
37 Botswana 4.8 4.2 5.7 6.4 7.7 8.3
38 Ireland 6.3 6.9 7.1 7.3 7.5 8.2
39 Japan 7.6 7.9 8 8.1 8 8.2
40 Spain 7.2 7.2 7.3 7.8 8.1 8.2
41 United Kingdom 7.2 7.5 7.6 7.7 8 8.2
42 Uruguay 10.5 10.8 10.3 9.8 8.2 8.1
43 Zimbabwe 8.3 6.4 5.8 7.2 8.4 8.1
44 Montenegro 7.5 8 7.9 8.2 8 8
45 Serbia 7.1 7.3 8.3 8.3 8 8
46 Brazil 7.2 7.6 7.7 7.5 7.7 7.9
47 Nicaragua 7.2 7.7 8 8 7.9 7.9
48 Hungary 6.9 7.2 7.6 8.3 8.1 7.8
49 Iran (Islamic Republic of) 5.9 6.1 6.1 6.2 6.2 7.8
50 Israel 8 8.4 8.3 8.2 8.1 7.8
51 Paraguay 9.2 8.9 9.1 7.9 7.7 7.8
52 F.Y.R. O. Macedonia 7.6 7.4 8 8.2 8 7.8
53 Bulgaria 6.2 7.2 7.4 7.6 7.5 7.7
54 Luxembourg 5.8 6.4 6.8 7.5 8.1 7.7
55 Cuba 6.2 5.9 5.9 5.8 5.7 7.6
56 Finland 6.6 6.7 7 7.3 7.4 7.5


http://www.photius.com/rankings/total_health_expenditure_as_pecent_of_gdp_2000_to_2005.html

The data suggests pretty strongly the USA (37, 2) isn't getting as much bang for it's medical buck as Canada (30, 18).

Rap













0 Replies
 
 

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