Quote:(I HOPE that my abhorrence of government and of collectivism is being successfully expressed.)
Yes, I've been aware of that for quite some time now - along with the fact that nobody ever thinks schools can do anything right - or even want to - in other words people seem to think they're run by assholes who never have anything approaching positive motives about anything.
Quote:aidan wrote:
The graduation IS about the school - you know?
David replied:
Quote:BULLONEY!!! The graduation is about the Individual students.
A public school is their mere property, like their shoes.
Really - then why don't they have it in the girl's bedroom? Then she wouldn't have to get dressed at all.
I had to look at that phonetic twice to figure out what sound you wanted me to make David. Maybe it's a NJ thing but I would say BA-Lone-y not BULL-0-ney.
Quote:aidan wrote:
If you have no respect for the traditions of the institution - don't take part in them. Simple as that.
To which David replied:
Quote:No; that does not optimally serve their best interests as Individuals,
and toward OTHER Individuals who follow in their footsteps.
The collective is dangerous and we need to take care to subdue it,
like a recalcitrant dog.
That is where the citizens of Russia and Germany went rong last century.
Okay - so is there no institution or tradition in which you take enough pride or respect enough to follow their rules and dress code?
How about when you were in court? Did you wear a suit? How about if you'd had to sit on the bench as a judge? Would you have worn the robe?
Quote:aidan wrote:
And I will tell you, having a daughter this age and seeing her friends - there is a lot
of personal 'it's all about me' arrogance around this.
To which David replied:
Quote:Hooray!!! That is how it shoud be
NOT as I quoted Adolf Hitler b4 hereinabove:
"authority from the top down,
obedience from the bottom up."
(Hitler was a collectivist; Individualism was anathema to him and he said so.)
Again, I exhort a consumate rejection of nazi filosofy,
reversing it, and turning it upside down,
in favor of the INDIVIDUAL subduing the collective
and its henchman: government.
But that's NOT what it's about. Actually, when you walk through the school or look at these girls' facebook pictures - they are all much of a muchness. They all look the same. You could cut and paste faces and put them on the same bodies. They all wear their hair the same and their skinny jeans and their make-up the same.
You know at one time, there used to be all sorts of girls and you could tell what that girl was interested in by the way she dressed and/or wore her hair. You could tell if she was a granola freak or preppy or a jock or a swot....now you can tell that these girls are ready for their photo-op at any given moment.
I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that they know they can no longer do anything or go anywhere without someone snapping pictures on their phone and posting them for the whole world to see. So you ALWAYS got to look good.
It's sad - they all have their poses absolutely down. As a result - what they wear becomes more important than what they do.
Quote:aidan wrote:
She probably thinks she'll look better in her facebook pictures if she wears her 'classy' white pantsuit.
To which David replied:
Quote:Everyone is entitled to an opinion.
The opinion of the school personnel is inferior to hers,
in that thay r merely her employees.
It's not their opinion. It is their policy and tradition. And they are sponsoring the event.
Quote:aidan wrote:
And David - you have no idea what you're saying.
You're a ******* arbiter of rules and enforcing them.
Quote:That depends on the legitimacy of the rules; not enuf ******* going on, tho.
You don't think so?
Quote:Which ones do u have in mind ?
Look, it's all very well and good to say - 'Oh yeah - people gotta be free. No one should ever be told what to do and what not to do - especially in those crummy schools.
But where do you think children are first conditioned to accept that sometimes certain standards of behavior, when it comes to dress, manners, citizenship, etc. will enable them to function more smoothly in the world- outside the unique and perhaps misbegotten behaviors of their family?
It's at school. When the bell rings - you gotta be in your seat. Just as twenty years later, when the boss says, 'Work starts at 8:00,' you gotta be at your desk.
Maybe they see their moms/dads calling in sick or showing up late for work. Maybe they'd think that's the way it is for everyone. But then they go to school and certain disciplines are enforced on everyone.
And they see the efficacy in these standard and traditions so that later,
when the law says, 'You cannot litter,' even though it's easier to throw something on the ground instead of walking over to the trash can- they're conditioned to cooperate.
I don't think cooperation and adaptivity and yes, taking other's wishes into account is a bad thing.
And why rebel just to rebel? If her purpose is to look good, as stated, she'd look prettier with her legs showing without the pants. They look like pajama bottoms.
Quote:aidan wrote:
You're gonna try to tell me that there's no value in respecting tradition and following rules?
Quote:That depends on the logical merit of the individual tradition or rule under consideration; e.g., there is no value
in following the traditional rule of adding the letters UGH to the word tho, nor in jabbing Ls into the words woud, coud nor shoud;
there r many other examples, e.g. fathers deciding whom their daughters shoud marry.
What if YOUR father told u to follow tradition
in letting him choose a husband for u and to follow his rules about that??
David - I'm American, not British and not titled.
My father choosing whom I marry is not a tradition in my culture.
And yeah - if we were talking about a life-altering decision that would have bearing on the rest of my life, I might break with tradition.
But this girl just wants to wear the pants she wants to wear for one hour instead of the pants the school wants her to wear.
Maybe they should throw the whole graduation ceremony out the window. Yeah - let the kids organize, find a place to have it, make all the arrangements, find a space for it, chairs for everyone to sit in, etc....then yeah - they could wear whatever they want.
I think that's a great solution.
That's what I'd say if I were the principal of that school.
Ya'll who want to wear pajama pants - have your own ceremony.
Quote:aidan wrote:
And this sort of 'me is most important' attitude spills over into everything.
Quote:THANK GOODNESS! That is the natural way to vu things.
Let everyone join in anti-collectivism.
Yes - DIS-organize. Let's see how well the trash gets collected off the streets then!
It's a very romantic idea David. But you might not be happy with the practical applications and results.
Quote:
aidan wrote:
So, how about deadlines? What if the professor at college says, 'This paper is due so and so' and this girl says,
'Well, I want to hand it in on my own time in my own way- stop trying to control me - as long as I learn the material
don't tell me what to do. Is that alright too?
Quote:Yes; ADMIRABLE!!!
That 's good practice for true Americanism.
Its the same as if she hired a tutor who subsequently got uppity n disrespectful of his employer.
She shoud add a disciplinary remark to keep him humble,
embarrass him a little, if he is bossy
e.g.: "I put the socks on your feet, Mister; don 't forget who is paying u."
Yeah - lets' teach people to be disrespectful to others as well as we disorganize the world.
Quote:aidan wrote:
Give me a break. This girl can strip naked and run around the track if she wants to.
Quote:Well, if it is public property
and if she is a citizen, then she is entitled.
As long as she does not violate anyone's rights, I see no harm in that.
That is the criterion.
I agree - she needs to learn to take the consequences of her stances.
Quote:aidan wrote:
She'll just have to take the consequences.
Let her wear her white pantsuit.
She'll have to take the consequences - maybe they won't let her
participate in the traditional graduation ceremony.
Quote:Keepin her OUT
of her own property????
What if someone keeps U out of YOUR own property????
As far as I understand it, it's only my property during school hours.
They're allowing me to take part in a ceremony they're providing me outside of school hours.
They don't have to make their facility available - they are.
Quote:aidan wrote:
Oh well...she got to look damn good in her classy white pantsuit.
Quote:That actually HAPPENED,
to a girl who was joining the US Army.
She posed in Army fatigues on an M1 Abrams battle tank,
under its 12Omm cannon,
and gave the picture to the Yearbook people.
In revenge, her employees, the administration
of the school kept her out of her graduation,
in furtherance of their zero tolerance anti-gun policy.
Listen - schools are damned if they do and damned if they don't.
Everyone wants everyone elses children to be held to certain standards of behavior, but they want their own kids to be able to do whatever the hell they want.
It doesn't work that way.
Quote:aidan wrote:
And this is not the sort of girl who changed the world for me.
As Ms. Olga states - those women were spending their time and effort on more important things
.
David wrote:
Quote:Nothing is more important than the citizens keeping government in subjection.
When the monster gets loose from his slab in the lab,
Dr. Frankenstein is in trouble, and woe unto the townsfolk.
That's not what this is about. This is about her.
