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Christian and Pro-Choice

Forums: Politics, Abortion
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hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Dec, 2003 03:02 pm
And are you equally pro-execution?
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vroonika
 
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Reply Tue 30 Dec, 2003 03:08 pm
hobitbob, since when did anyone who is anti-abortion automatically pro-execution also? I find this highly presumptuous a remark
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hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Dec, 2003 03:12 pm
Merely repeating the official "conservative Christian" viewpoint, popularized by Falwell, Robertson, Reed, etc....
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vroonika
 
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Reply Tue 30 Dec, 2003 03:17 pm
'Official' it may be, but every Christian's POV no. I am a Christian and am pro-choice and vehemently against any form of capital punishment.
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yeahman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Dec, 2003 03:17 pm
D'artagnan wrote:
The argument that ye110man uses twice--what if it was determined that life begins at age 1, would it therefore be OK to murder babies?--is based on his own belief that life begins at conception.

Oh I don't beleive that. I don't know when life begins. The 6th month seems like a reasonable point to me. But I just wanted to discuss this topic. I cannot understand how someone can believe that life begins at conception and yet still be pro-choice.

Frank Apisa wrote:
Murder has a specific meaning. It is the unlawful, premeditated taking of a human life by another human being.

Abortion is NOT unlawful.

It is not murder -- no matter how much anti-abortion proponents want to describe it as such.

So the Jews weren't murdered during the holocaust? But if you have a problem with calling it murder then let's call it killing.

Frank Apisa wrote:
And...I mention again: How does anyone know for sure that their God didn't intend for the abortion to occur -- that it was not their God's plans for that particular soul?

You'd be correct if God told the woman to get an abortion. But I don't think any Christian would argue that killing for self-benefit is part of his plan.

hobitbob wrote:
Yet if Christianity has as a core tenet the sanctity of life, why are so many of those who are so loudly pro-life equally vehement in their support for capital punishment?

That has nothing to do with the subject. I wasn't trying to aruge for or against abortion just the moral dilemna faced by pro-choice Christians.
But if you want to go there, you pretty much answered your own question. It's capital PUNISHMENT. What wrongdoing were the unborn convicted of?
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McGentrix
 
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Reply Tue 30 Dec, 2003 03:18 pm
I am pro-abortion. The whole Pro-choice thing seems silly. You are either for abortions, or you are against abortions.

"I am against abortion, but believe a woman should be able to make her own choices"

Make a decision. You are either for it, or not.
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yeahman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Dec, 2003 03:24 pm
McGentrix wrote:
I am pro-abortion. The whole Pro-choice thing seems silly. You are either for abortions, or you are against abortions.

"I am against abortion, but believe a woman should be able to make her own choices"

Make a decision. You are either for it, or not.

That's exactly my point. The pro-choice Chrsitians seem to confuse free will with rights under the law. No law can take away free will. The state has the authority to deny certain "rights." If you believe that life begins at conception the state is denying the right to life of the unborn and granting the right to kill to its mother.
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vroonika
 
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Reply Tue 30 Dec, 2003 03:24 pm
Why is they no middle ground McGentrix? Not everything is either black or white. I am pro-choice in that a woman should have the right to do as she wishes as it is her body and her child but am against the light use of abortion as a 'contraceptive if all else fails.' There are exceptions to this however which is why it cannot be wholly condemned and it is not for anyone to judge a woman who does decide to abort.
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yeahman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Dec, 2003 03:26 pm
hobitbob wrote:
Merely repeating the official "conservative Christian" viewpoint, popularized by Falwell, Robertson, Reed, etc....

I'd say that the pope is a conservative Christian. Pro-life and anti-death-penalty is the official position of the Catholic Church.
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vroonika
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Dec, 2003 03:28 pm
ah the Catholic church..well thats says it all
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onyxelle
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Dec, 2003 03:28 pm
McGentrix wrote:

"I am against abortion, but believe a woman should be able to make her own choices"


What's wrong with that statement? It displays the individuals personal choice, but the willingness to let other people make choices for themselves, does it not? I'm not for abortions, but I'm for choice in that if she decides to have one (or not) I think it's her decision. For me, to say I'm pro-abortion would be absolutely wrong.
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vroonika
 
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Reply Tue 30 Dec, 2003 03:30 pm
I agree entirely, oxyelle
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yeahman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Dec, 2003 03:30 pm
vroonika wrote:
Why is they no middle ground McGentrix? Not everything is either black or white. I am pro-choice in that a woman should have the right to do as she wishes as it is her body and her child but am against the light use of abortion as a 'contraceptive if all else fails.' There are exceptions to this however which is why it cannot be wholly condemned and it is not for anyone to judge a woman who does decide to abort.

Is it part of her body or is it a child? Nobody is denying the right of a woman to remove a part of her body. A woman does not have the right to take the life of her child though.
There is no middle ground. Something is either alive or it isn't. If one believes that life begins at birth, by all means they should be pro-choice. If one believes that life begins at conception, how can they condone abortion?
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husker
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Dec, 2003 03:30 pm
hobitbob wrote:
And are you equally pro-execution?

you just had to shake an ugly stick - didn't you! Pro-life is pro-life
both ends of the spectrum or your rec....... :wink:
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yeahman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Dec, 2003 03:33 pm
onyxelle wrote:
McGentrix wrote:

"I am against abortion, but believe a woman should be able to make her own choices"


What's wrong with that statement? It displays the individuals personal choice, but the willingness to let other people make choices for themselves, does it not? I'm not for abortions, but I'm for choice in that if she decides to have one (or not) I think it's her decision. For me, to say I'm pro-abortion would be absolutely wrong.

Nobody is "pro-abortion." Nobody likes it. The real distinction is in whether or not you believe that abortion is morally justifiable.
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Dec, 2003 03:36 pm
vroonika wrote:
Why is they no middle ground McGentrix? Not everything is either black or white. I am pro-choice in that a woman should have the right to do as she wishes as it is her body and her child but am against the light use of abortion as a 'contraceptive if all else fails.' There are exceptions to this however which is why it cannot be wholly condemned and it is not for anyone to judge a woman who does decide to abort.


Then YOU are anti-abortion while the woman getting the abortion would obviously be pro-abortion.

There is nothing wrong with taking a pro- or anti-abortion stance. It's taking the middle ground because you are too weak to stand for your convictions that irritates me. You are either for it ir against.
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onyxelle
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Dec, 2003 03:39 pm
I wish my world were as cut and dry as that.
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vroonika
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Dec, 2003 03:39 pm
no not entirely, i don't think it is important or necessarily helpful to have to pigeonhole your beliefs on a topic. Neither do I have a problem in standing for my convictions.
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Fedral
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Dec, 2003 03:41 pm
ye110man wrote:

Is it part of her body or is it a child? Nobody is denying the right of a woman to remove a part of her body. A woman does not have the right to take the life of her child though.
There is no middle ground. Something is either alive or it isn't. If one believes that life begins at birth, by all means they should be pro-choice. If one believes that life begins at conception, how can they condone abortion?


Now you are going to start splitting hairs at what point a collection of cells in a womans uterus actually qualifies as a person. My belief is that once actual brainwave activity begins (not random firings, but REAL brain activity) that the fetus can be called a person. At that point only a risk to the mothers health can allow an abortion to be performed.

I personally prefer to use this method because there have been ample cases of people in accidents or through illness becoming 'brain dead'. When the families and doctors get together to decide to remove these people from life support, they won't be charged with conspiracy to commit murder. I feel that if there is no brain activity, there is no person.

Just my 2 cents, pre tax.
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yeahman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Dec, 2003 03:42 pm
For those in the politically-correct "Against abortion but pro-choice" camp that has infected Washington, when do you believe that life begins?

Fedral wrote:
Now you are going to start splitting hairs at what point a collection of cells in a womans uterus actually qualifies as a person. My belief is that once actual brainwave activity begins (not random firings, but REAL brain activity) that the fetus can be called a person. At that point only a risk to the mothers health can allow an abortion to be performed.

I personally prefer to use this method because there have been ample cases of people in accidents or through illness becoming 'brain dead'. When the families and doctors get together to decide to remove these people from life support, they won't be charged with conspiracy to commit murder. I feel that if there is no brain activity, there is no person.

Just my 2 cents, pre tax.

When does brainwave activity occur? Anybody know?

So then is it safe to say that before that point, you are pro-choice and after that point you are pro-life?

The docters and family will be charged with conspiracy to commit murder, if they shot the brain dead person. Pulling the plug let's them die naturally. Nobody is saying a mother should be charged if her unborn child dies naturally.
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