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Christian and Pro-Choice

 
 
yeahman
 
Reply Tue 30 Dec, 2003 12:16 am
I was thinking about this a lot lately and really can one be Christian AND pro-choice? And if not can you really blame a Christian for being pro-life?

Christians, and most religions for that matter, believe that life begins at conception. Then that person would want to protect its right to life as it would protect any human being. That would include wanting to outlaw abortion by any means necessary.

Let's put the shoe on the other foot. You're a person that believes that life begins at birth and all born humans should have the right to life. For whatever reason the society you live in says that life begins at age 1 so they grant women the right to abort their babies before then. What would your position be in that situation?

I'm not suggesting that pro-lifers should take the law into their own hands. But can you really blame them for protesting outside abortion clinics and working to try to change the laws?
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Type: Discussion • Score: 2 • Views: 5,691 • Replies: 109
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satt fs
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Dec, 2003 12:27 am
Life begins when the Creator "breathes" the life. I do not know exactly when it is. Humans may never be able to know when.
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NeoGuin
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Dec, 2003 06:55 am
No,

But I can blame them for a lack of "Compassion" when that child is born.

You know--opposition to things like "Living Minimum Wages", cutting programs, etc.

I sometimes think that Barney Frank has it best--
"Pro-Lifers believe life begins at conception and ends at birth"
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Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Dec, 2003 07:04 am
Actually, I don't think it really matters when "life begins"...

...I think a person can logically be "pro-choice" in any case.

And it seems to me that a person can be a devote theists -- a devote Christian -- and still be pro-choice.

Why do theists who argue against choice suppose their god is not using abortion as a means to its ends?
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roger
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Dec, 2003 09:32 am
Good point, NeoGuin, and one that is often overlooked.
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Fedral
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Dec, 2003 10:48 am
I am a Christian and I am pro-choice. I take a very conservative stance on many issues but on this one I do not.

Although I find the practice disgusting and morally reprehensible, it is still not my place to judge another persons actions. I could use the bible quote of 'Judge not, lest ye be judged' but some don't agree with Christ's vision.

The moment they start legislating what we can and can't do with our bodies based on someone elses view on what is morally correct is the day that this population needs to march on D.C. and 'put things to right'.

Although I grieve for the lost unborn children, I feel it is the woman who chooses to have an abortion that will pay for it in the long run. Emotional trauma is just as damaging as physical and takes much longer to heal.

Sorry to rant so long, but this is another of those 'slippery slopes' that people seem to support because it makes them feel good but will, in the end, cause even more problems for other citizens.
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rabel22
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Dec, 2003 11:02 am
Federal
A post I can agree with completely.
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yeahman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Dec, 2003 11:50 am
From the Christian POV, abortion is murder, pure and simple. I still don't see how someone can believe that and be pro-choice.
For a Christian it's like the supreme court denied a group of humans their basic human rights and allowed their murder. How could you not want to fight against that?

Fedral, I would have agreed with you in the past but if tomorrow the supreme court decided that babies were not humans until age 1, would you still be pro-choice? For a Christian it makes no difference, it's the same life before or after birth.
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onyxelle
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Dec, 2003 12:11 pm
I am also a christian - so is my husband. he is pro life, and that's it. I'm pro choice - we NEVER discuss it because there would be fireworks.

Yes, yell0 - I believe abortion is murder, but I believe also, that it's the mother's choice what to do. While I would personally never do such, I believe that adoption will get the same end accomplished if she could not afford to have the child ( why open your legs then????), It's totally not the same case if after you become pregnant, the dr says if you carry this baby to term, you'll die either before or during birth. What then? As a christian - if you have an abortion - you can ALWAYS ask forgivenss.

God gives us free will, and we do with it what we will. Who am I to tell someone they cant use their free will the way they want to?

If the abortion age were upped to 1 year, I would think it the most reprehensible thing on Earth, I'd protest, vote against and every other thing I could. But if it became law, it's that mother's choice - given her by God. Not mine.

If i were not a christian - I would still be pro choice.

Like fedral said, after effects & anguish can be much worse for the mother. I know, I lived with one.
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fishin
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Dec, 2003 12:15 pm
ye110man wrote:
From the Christian POV, abortion is murder, pure and simple.


There are over a billion "Christians" in the world and an equeal number of "Points of View" to go along with that. Assuming that every Christian shares the same point of view is a major mistake.
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hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Dec, 2003 12:47 pm
Yet if Christianity has as a core tenet the sanctity of life, why are so many of those who are so loudly pro-life equally vehement in their support for capital punishment?
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yeahman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Dec, 2003 01:02 pm
OK nearly every Christian denomination teaches that abortion is murder. That's what I meant.

onyxelle, yes I have the free will to kill but I do not have the right to kill.

Quote:
As a christian - if you have an abortion - you can ALWAYS ask forgivenss.

So a Christian can plan to be sorry later for the abortion they are about to take part in now? Forgiveness isn't granted to an unpenitent person.
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onyxelle
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Dec, 2003 01:11 pm
forgiveness is granted to anyone who truly wants it. free will and rights are not the same thing. free will gives the you ability to decide whether or not to do something that is against the law or not, either God's or Man's. Anybody can 'plan to be sorry', you can be all the sorry you want, but you have to ask forgivenss for it. All God asks, is that you mean it. it's not my law.

Penitent means you're supersorry you did it, not that you didn't mean to do it.

thought we were discussing abortion...not forgiveness.
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joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Dec, 2003 01:23 pm
ye110man wrote:
OK nearly every Christian denomination teaches that abortion is murder. That's what I meant.

I sincerely doubt that. It certainly wasn't the Christian doctrine in the past, when life was considered to begin at "quickening."

As such, only Christian sects, such as Roman Catholicism, that adhere to the belief that life begins at conception are unalterably opposed to abortion. Consequently, it's quite possible (or, more accurately, it would not be hypocritical) for one to be both a Christian and pro-choice, as long as one is not an anti-abortion Christian.
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Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Dec, 2003 02:24 pm
It makes sense to call abortion a lot of things -- "disgusting" and "morally reprehensible" are two that have been used here -- but it makes absolutely no sense to call it murder.

Murder has a specific meaning. It is the unlawful, premeditated taking of a human life by another human being.

Abortion is NOT unlawful.

It is not murder -- no matter how much anti-abortion proponents want to describe it as such.

And...I mention again: How does anyone know for sure that their God didn't intend for the abortion to occur -- that it was not their God's plans for that particular soul?
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Dartagnan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Dec, 2003 02:31 pm
The argument that ye110man uses twice--what if it was determined that life begins at age 1, would it therefore be OK to murder babies?--is based on his own belief that life begins at conception.

Obviously, others don't share that belief, so no, it wouldn't be OK to murder infants.
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hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Dec, 2003 02:47 pm
But killing infants is completely compatible with the efforts by the "Christians" to try youngsters as adults and a similar wilingness to put these "adults" to death.
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fishin
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Dec, 2003 02:49 pm
hobitbob wrote:
But killing infants is completely compatible with the efforts by the "Christians" to try youngsters as adults and a similar wilingness to put these "adults" to death.


Please. The absurdity here is laughable.
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hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Dec, 2003 02:57 pm
Really? How so? Do you not see the irony in being "anti-abortion" but aggressively "Pro-execution?"
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husker
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Dec, 2003 03:00 pm
I'd be pro-life - but I'm not going to be nasty and judgemental about it.
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