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THE US, THE UN AND IRAQ VI

 
 
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 May, 2004 08:02 pm
I don't know for sure, but I'll bet a big steak dinner for two you can't find those quotes in the Koran.

One of the 'fun' things the kids have been doing lately is making crap like this up.

Okay?

I like a nice porterhouse medium rare.

Joe

btw : I have a Koran.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 May, 2004 08:25 pm
As if the writings of the KKK represents all white people in the US.
0 Replies
 
Adrian
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 May, 2004 08:32 pm
This;

Quote:
"But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war)";


is a direct quote from the Koran... No steak for Joe.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 May, 2004 08:36 pm
If you want to start quoting the koran, we should also include passages from the Bible. Now, that'll be more fun, because more Americans follow the bible. Anybody ready to stone their chldren? Wink
0 Replies
 
Gelisgesti
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 May, 2004 08:46 pm
"Everybody must get stoned"

Bob Dylan
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 May, 2004 10:27 pm
as I haev mentioned before, "pagans" meant the non christian, jewish, or muslims in Medina who were persecuting the followers of mohammed. It refers to a specific incident in time. Get over it, folks!
0 Replies
 
mporter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 May, 2004 11:33 pm
I am really ignorant about the persecution of the followers of mohammed. I would like to learn more. I have learned from reading Bernard Lewis that there is a very small section of Islam which feels that the world must be converted to Islam even if the infidels must be put to the sword. I guess that is what the animals who flew the airplanes into the World Trade Center on Sept. 11, 2001 and incinerated 3,000 helpless non-combatants were thinking about. Death to the Infidel!!!
But, we mustn't think that way. The Christian ideal is to turn the other cheek. Our troops really ought to lay down their arms, profess their beastiality towards the poor innocent Iraqi prisoners and return home. President Bush must apologize to the entire world for his blood thirsty adventure in Iraq.
Furthermore, all aid to Israel, a state which has been harrassing the peaceloving Palestinians, must immediately give all Palestinians the right of return and the control of all of Jerusalm.
Only then can justice be served.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 May, 2004 06:29 am
You guys go read what Farmerman has written on the following page...

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=23873&start=60
0 Replies
 
Kara
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 May, 2004 07:08 am
Importer, why don't you tell us what you really think?
0 Replies
 
Kara
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 May, 2004 07:19 am
Quote:
ANOTHER THING--Weve got over 150 acres of GB and VX gas at Ft Detrich and at ABerdeen PG in Maryland (near major population areas of DC, Frederick, and the little community of Balltimore) Were living with all these WMDs in many of our back yards, the Army is slowly oxidizing this stuff and we go on with life not knowing that many of us live within an hours ride of some of the deadliest caches of nerve gas on the planet.
It appears that Our standards are multi faceted when it comes to cobbling together reasons for "foreign adventures"We can have all the House and Senate live within 30 miles of Aberdeen without any notice at all but we have to go to war at the slightest hint of 300 lb of VX in Iraq, 8000 miles away from DC.


Blatham, farmerman makes an excellent point here, one that is seldom touched on because we think we are the only nation in the world moral enough to be allowed to have WMDs and chemical weapons.

Quote:
Not since woodrow wilson, has a president been such a bald faced liar about reasons for waging wars on fairly defenseless countries. Wilson , at least could have made the reason that some of the countries he invaded , like Mexico or Guatemala could have made it to our borders.. ( providing they had a decent mule pack or a working truck)
He reminds us once again that we always think of ourselves as "liberators," not occupiers. That is what Napoleon said, too, along with every conqueror who rolled into a defenseless land.

Quote:
We should be really worried about Russian nukes that arent inventoried and controlled, or North Korean "cash and carry" nukes.
Im sure ,that, while we dick around in Iraq , killing our kids and theirs Al Qaida is shelling out cash to pick up some stray nukes. and they wont deliver them in a UAV or on an AL Samoud launched from a sub in the Iraqi Nuclear Navy. Theyll most likely come in on a container ship or over the Mexican border in a bus load of tourists.They have quietly installed scintilometers along the Canadian and Mexican Borders, at least Ridge has his eye on the ball. (I hope some degree of sense and competence returns to the executive branch)


Another excellent point. Our lack of attention to stray munitions after the administration attacked Iraq allowed them to disappear into the hands of insurgents. Stray nukes are just a tranche upward.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 May, 2004 07:55 am
Quote:
Our troops really ought to lay down their arms, profess their beastiality towards the poor innocent Iraqi prisoners and return home. President Bush must apologize to the entire world for his blood thirsty adventure in Iraq.
Furthermore, all aid to Israel, a state which has been harrassing the peaceloving Palestinians, must immediately give all Palestinians the right of return and the control of all of Jerusalm.
Only then can justice be served.


I agree with most of your analysis mporter. And of course some has been implemented. Senior American commanders have now (been ordered to) apologise for the the bestiality of their soldiers. They have yet to acknowledge that they themselves ordered a policy of systematic torture and humiliation or that this was done with the knowledge of the political leadership. But the nearest we are likely to get is Bush going on Arab tv to apologise personally.

It is not a question of American forces "returning home" it is simply a question of how long it will take the Iraqi resistance to defeat the coalition and run them out of the country.

I'm not sure if I understand your point about the Israeli/Palestine problem, but if it involves establishing a viable Palestinian state with its capital at Jerusalem, that would be a good start.
0 Replies
 
Kara
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 May, 2004 08:13 am
Importer, I agree with you and Steve on most of these points. I was teasing you, above. Gently, I thought. I should have added a smiley face.

The ideal actions that you describe are in accord not only with Christian ideals -- although one has to keep in mind Onward Christian Soldiers -- but with the beliefs of Buddhism.

Thich Nhat Hanh, the Vietnamese monk who is well known around the world for his beliefs on compassion as a response to conflict, wrote the following during a Q & A session titled What I Would Say to Osama bin Laden?

There are people who want one thing only: revenge. In the Buddhist scriptures, the Buddha said that by using hatred to answer hatred, there will only be an escalation of hatred. But if we use compassion to embrace those who have harmed us, it will greatly diffuse the bomb in our hearts and in theirs.

So how can we bring about a drop of compassion that can put out the fire of hatred? You know, they do not sell compassion in the supermarket. If they sold compassion, we would only need to bring it home and we could solve the problem of hatred and violence in the world very easily. But compassion can only be produced in our own heart by our own practice.

America is burning with hatred. That is why we have to tell our Christian friends, "You are children of Christ." You have to return to yourselves and look deeply and find out why this violence happened. Why is there so much hatred? What lies under all this violence? Why do they hate so much that they would sacrifice their own lives and bring about so much suffering to other people? Why would these young people, full of vitality and strength, have chosen to lose their lives, to commit such violence? That is what we have to understand.


PlumVillage
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 May, 2004 08:18 am
That's why China rules Tibet and the Dalai Lama lives in America.

Buddhism is a wonderful philosophy and I truly wish it was the predominant religion on Earth as peace would truly reign. But it's not. and it doesn't.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 May, 2004 09:34 am
Joe Nation wrote:
I don't know for sure, but I'll bet a big steak dinner for two you can't find those quotes in the Koran.


The FATWA I posted is real and not made up by "kids" other than those actually listed. It is OBL and his cleric friends who are the "kids" in this case and think their FATWA is implied by the Qu'ran.


Look in your "Koran". In SURA IV.--WOMEN, and SURA.IX--IMMUNITY for some of the verses, upon which these "kids" based their FATWA.
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 May, 2004 09:45 am
Quote without confirming links can be construed to be made up by kids.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 May, 2004 09:46 am
MUCH MORE ON FATWAs

[search on <bin Laden FATWA>]

BIN LADEN'S FATWA

The following text is a fatwa, or declaration of war, by Osama bin Laden first published in Al Quds Al Arabi, a London-based newspaper, in August, 1996. The fatwa is entitled "Declaration of War against the Americans Occupying the Land of the Two Holy Places."


Quote:
Praise be to Allah, we seek His help and ask for his pardon. we take refuge in Allah from our wrongs and bad deeds. Who ever been guided by Allah will not be misled, and who ever has been misled, he will never be guided. I bear witness that there is no God except Allah-no associates with Him- and I bear witness that Muhammad is His slave and messenger.

{O you who believe! be careful of -your duty to- Allah with the proper care which is due to Him, and do not die unless you are Muslim} (Imraan; 3:102), {O people be careful of -your duty to- your Lord, Who created you from a single being and created its mate of the same -kind- and spread from these two, many men and women; and be careful of -your duty to- Allah , by whom you demand one of another -your rights-, and (be careful) to the ties of kinship; surely Allah ever watches over you} (An-Nisa; 4:1), {O you who believe! be careful- of your duty- to Allah and speak the right word; He will put your deeds into a right state for you, and forgive you your faults; and who ever obeys Allah and his Apostle, he indeed achieve a mighty success} (Al-Ahzab; 33:70-71).

....



It's long. If any one wants I'll post both the 1996 and 1998 FATWAS in their entirety.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 May, 2004 02:04 pm
Lightwizard wrote:
Quote without confirming links can be construed to be made up by kids.


On a search <bin laden FATWA>
AltaVista found 13,344 results

Here is the first page of those results:

Online NewsHour: Bin Laden's Fatwa
... BIN LADEN'S FATWA. The following text is a fatwa, or declaration of war, by Osama bin Laden first published in Al Quds ...
www.pbs.org/newshour/terrorism/international/fatwa_1996.html
More pages from pbs.org


World Islamic Front Statement Urging Jihad Against Jews and Crusaders
... statement from Usama bin Laden and his associates purports to be a religious ruling (fatwa) requiring the killing ... the evidence that links the bin Laden network to the September 11 ...
www.fas.org/irp/world/para/docs/980223-fatwa.htm
More pages from fas.org


Summary/Review of Reports Concerning Threats by Osama Bin Laden to Conduct Terrorist Operations Against the United States ...
This article was awarded a "Times Pick" by the Los Angeles Times on 8/24/98. ... on the word "fatwa": it means judgement. Mr. Bin Laden has been involved ...
www.emergency.com/bladen98.htm
More pages from emergency.com


The Fatwa of Usamah Bin-Laden
The Fatwa of Usamah Bin-Laden. Posted by Libanus on September 17, 2001 @ 08:33 PM. from the allah-mode dept. In late February of 1998, Usamah Bin-Laden issued his "fatwa" or decree against the United States and American citizens.
www.beastbay.com/beastbay/1000784014
More pages from beastbay.com


FBI Websites Document Evidence Against Bin Laden
... The Federal Bureau of Investigation has made public two websites where information about Usama bin Laden is available ... the endorsement by bin Laden of a fatwa issued by the "Ulema ...
usinfo.state.gov/topical/pol/terror/99129502.htm
More pages from usinfo.state.gov


Bin Laden's Fatwa: Kill American Civilians
Click to scroll to commentary. Bin Laden's Fatwa: Kill American Civilians. http://www.emergency.com/bladen98.htm ^ Posted on 09/15/2001 2:04:53 PM PDT by tomahawk. This is Osama Bin Laden's Fatwa to Kill American Civilians.
www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3ba3c27518d9.htm
More pages from freerepublic.com


ABCNEWS.com : John Miller Interviews Bin Laden (May 1998)
... ABCNEWS correspondent John Miller interviews Osama bin Laden in his secret hideaway in the mountains of ... three months after bin Laden issued a fatwa calling for the deaths ...
abcnews.go.com/sections/world/DailyNews/miller_binladen_980609.html
More pages from abcnews.go.com


ERRI TERRORIST GROUP PROFILE - SPECIAL REPORT; Usamah Bin Mohammad Bin Laden (Osama bin-Laden)
... Usamah Bin Mohammad Bin Laden (Osama bin-Laden ... Bin-Laden's 'jihad' is not without it's supporters from other terrorist leaders. In the much talked about Fatwa's ...
www.emergency.com/bldn0798.htm
More pages from emergency.com


81 Exact Month Of Bin Laden's WSorldwide Fatwa Fortold
... EXACT MONTH OF BIN LADEN'S WORLDWIDE FATWA FORETOLD. Don Hawley ... The first section of bin Laden's fatwawas issued in August of 1996, and headed "The Ladenese Epistle: Declaration of ...
www.truthsearch.info/hawley81.htm
More pages from truthsearch.info


Osama bin Laden: Profile
STAY INFORMED !! Subscribe to ADL's weekly newsletter. Osama bin Laden. New Osama bin Laden Video Contains Anti-Israel and Anti-American Statements ... the most recent videotape of Osama bin Laden. As in previous statements, bin Laden is shown making ... Jews and Crusaders," bin Laden endorsed a fatwa, religious decree, to call ...
www.adl.org/terrorism_america/bin_l.asp
More pages from adl.org



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0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 May, 2004 02:32 pm
Kara wrote:
Quote:
ANOTHER THING--Weve got over 150 acres of GB and VX gas at Ft Detrich and at ABerdeen PG in Maryland ...

Blatham, farmerman makes an excellent point here, one that is seldom touched on because we think we are the only nation in the world moral enough to be allowed to have WMDs and chemical weapons. ...


Are we threatening to murder people with that stuff?

Have we murdered people with that stuff?

Have we sold/given that stuff to others who are threatening to murder people with that stuff?

Have we sold/given that stuff to others who are murdering people with that stuff?

Have we sold/given that stuff to others who murdered people with that stuff? YES! WE ALONG WITH OTHER NATIONS DID GIVE THAT STUFF TO Iraq during the Iraq-Iran war. Saddam Hussein subsequently used some of that stuff to murder Iraqi people.

www.britannica.com
Quote:
Iran-Iraq War
(1980–90), prolonged military conflict between Iran and Iraq during the 1980s. The war began on September 22, 1980, when Iraqi armed forces invaded western Iran along the countries' joint border.

Iraq under Saddam Hussein
from Iraq
It was virtually taken for granted that, when al-Bakr relinquished the presidency, Saddam Hussein would succeed him. Nevertheless, his succession was not carried out without complications. Perhaps ...

Restructuring the Ba'th regime
from Iraq
Even before the Iran-Iraq War began, Saddam Hussein had given some thought to restructuring the political regime. After he became president, he began to hold joint meetings of the RCC and the Ba'th ...

Soviet unrest at home and diplomacy abroad
from international relations
While the world's attention remained tuned to the war in the Persian Gulf, important changes occurred in the U.S.S.R. Gorbachev faced increasing, and increasingly bold, internal opposition from all ...

The Iran-Iraq War
from Iran
The new constitution created a religious government based on Khomeini's vision of vel and gave sweeping powers to the rahbar, or leader, the first of whom was Khomeini himself. Despite the regime's ...

The revolution of 1968
from Iraq
After 'Arif took control in 1963, the Ba'th Party was forced underground and began to make sweeping changes in its leadership and strategy in order to recapture power. Ahmad Hassan al-Bakr became ...

Afghanistan
from international relations
The resolution of regional conflicts at the end of the 1980s extended to Asia as well. In Afghanistan the Soviet Union had committed some 115,000 troops in support of the KGB-installed regime of ...
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 May, 2004 04:51 pm
AltaVista found 186,143 results
for <SADDAM HUSSEIN OSAMA BIN LADEN>

Quote:
BY STEPHEN E HUGHES
File type:PDF - Download PDF Reader
... TABLE OF CONTENTSThe Saddam Hussein / Osama Bin Laden Connection. Terrorism … Nuclear ... 374The Saddam Hussein / Osama bin Laden ConnectionTerrorism … Nuclear … Chemical ...
www.iraqwatch.org/perspectives/hughes-saddam-bin-laden-070302.pdf
More pages from iraqwatch.org


Document links Saddam, bin Laden - Wednesday, 06/25/03
... closest people in Iraq to Saddam Hussein, as well as his ongoing relationship with Osama bin Laden. ... know that Saddam had an ongoing relationship with Osama bin Laden. ...
www.tennessean.com/nation-world/archives/03/06/34908297.shtml?Element_ID=34908297
More pages from tennessean.com


t r u t h o u t - William Rivers Pitt | Osama Rallies Muslims, Condemns Hussein
Lets get the Truth Out, changing things for the better through information. ... Osama bin Laden rose from the dead yet again on Tuesday to prophesy doom and death for America ... Links between Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein have proven to be ...
www.truthout.com/docs_02/021303A.htm
More pages from truthout.com


Saddam Hussein and Osama Bin Laden - anagrams
... Saddam Hussein and Osama Bin Laden anagrams. Rearranging the letters of 'Saddam Hussein and Osama Bin Laden' gives ... Saddam Hussein, Osama Bin Laden" -> "Unhandsome, animal-ass baddies ...
www.anagramgenius.com/archive/saddam2.html
More pages from anagramgenius.com


Osama Bin Laden and President Saddam Hussein - anagrams
Osama Bin Laden and President Saddam Hussein anagrams. Rearranging the letters of 'Osama Bin Laden and President Saddam Hussein' gives: Muslim baddies: Top nerd and an insane ass-head. ( by William Tunstall-Pedoe using Anagram Genius)( 2003)
www.anagramgenius.com/archive/osamab2.html
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Instapundit.com:
Main | ». April 26, 2003. DOCUMENTS SHOWING THE SADDAM / BIN LADEN CONNECTION: Found by The Telegraph. ( Via LGF). ... the story on French intelligence briefings to Saddam: FRANCE gave Saddam Hussein's regime regular reports on its ...
www.instapundit.com/archives/009178.php
More pages from instapundit.com


IN SEARCH OF A HOLY WAR
... global demonization are Usama bin-Ladin and the ruling ... historical figures, like Saddam Hussein, or Manuel Noriega of ... the Americans. Messrs. bin-Ladin, Hussein and the forerunners ...
www.iacenter.org/maj_holywar.htm
More pages from iacenter.org


Bin Laden Labels Saddam an Infidel - Jazeera TV
Printer Friendly VersionE-Mail This Article. Published on Tuesday, February 11, 2003 by Reuters. Bin Laden Labels Saddam an Infidel - Jazeera TV. by Samia Nakhoul ... the United States -- but branded Saddam Hussein an infidel. Osama bin Laden is seen in this April 1998 ... the Iraqi people but labels Saddam Hussein an 'infidel'. A broadcast editor ...
www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0211-11.htm
More pages from commondreams.org


Funny Pictures/Jokes Saddam Hussein, Comical Ali, Osama Bin Laden, Iraq War
Collection funny pictures, cartoons and photos, of Saddam Hussein & Iraq Gulf War, Osama Bin Laden, Taliban and War on Terror ... FREE Cursors for your mouse!! Smackdown Saddam to win $500 ...
www.lifeisajoke.com/pictures13_html.htm
More pages from lifeisajoke.com


Case Closed
... government's secret memo detailing cooperation between Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden. by Stephen F ... OSAMA BIN LADEN and Saddam Hussein had an operational relationship from the ...
www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/003/378fmxyz.asp
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ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 May, 2004 05:05 pm
Encyclopædia Britannica


Year in Review 1999: law-crime-and-law-enforcement
Crime
Encyclopædia Britannica Article


E-mail this article Print this article Cite this article



Quote:
Terrorism.
During 1999 experts warned of a growing threat posed by a new breed of terrorists who were willing to employ nuclear, chemical, or biological weapons to inflict massive casualties. In May the International Institute of Strategic Studies, a London-based think tank, reported that the “complex and murky” world of modern terrorism was populated increasingly by loners or small cells of activists driven by fanatic beliefs or single issues. The new terrorists, loosely organized and disciplined, were more dangerous owing to their extreme beliefs, which made them less likely to exercise restraint in pursuit of their goals. Cited as an example was the informal terrorist network operated by Osama bin Laden, the alleged mastermind behind the 1998 bombings of U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania.

A U.S. State Department report revealed that there were no acts of international terrorism in the U.S. in 1998, and although worldwide there were 273 terrorist attacks, it was the lowest annual total since 1971. The number of persons killed (741) or wounded (5,952), however, was the highest on record; most of the casualties resulted from the embassy bombings in East Africa. The search for those responsible for the bombings continued, with the U.S. seeking the immediate apprehension and removal of bin Laden from sanctuary in Afghanistan.In November, following a unanimous vote in the Security Council, the UN imposed sanctions that would freeze the ruling Islamic Taliban's economic assets abroad and curtail international flights by the national airline if bin Laden and one of his chief aides were not handed over.

In a daring raid in February, Turkish security forces snatched Abdullah Ocalan, the long-feared and durable leader of the Kurdish independence movement, from his hiding place in the Greek embassy in Nairobi, Kenya. Ocalan—accused of being responsible for a violent separatist campaign that had claimed up to 30,000 lives in Turkey and involved killings, kidnappings, bombings, and crimes in other countries—was flown drugged, bound, and blindfolded back to Turkey to stand trial. His capture prompted immediate and violent demonstrations by Kurdish groups in many parts of the world. In June a Turkish security court sentenced Ocalan to death for treason. The verdict was appealed but the sentence was upheld.

In April Libya finally surrendered to UN officials in Tripoli two defendants accused in the 1988 bombing of Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scot., which killed 270 people and led to UN sanctions that isolated Libya from the West for seven years. The surrender of 'Abd al-Baset al-Megrahi and Lamin Khalifa Fhimah meant that the two alleged former Libyan intelligence agents could be tried in The Netherlands under Scottish law on charges of having planted the suitcase bomb that blew up the plane. In March a special antiterrorist court in Paris convicted in absentia and sentenced to life in prison six Libyan officials, including Abdullah Senoussi, the brother-in-law of Libyan leader Col. Muammar al-Qaddafi, in the 1989 bombing of a French passenger jet over the Niger desert. All 170 passengers and crew aboard UTA Flight 772 were killed in the explosion.

In Russia shockwaves of terror swept across Moscow in September as a series of powerful bombs demolished apartment buildings there. In five separate explosions over a period of less than two weeks, at least 293 people were killed and dozens more wounded. Meanwhile, as massive security operations fanned out to check the safety of more than 30,000 apartment blocks across the city, Russian Pres. Boris Yeltsin said terrorists were trying to demoralize the state, and Prime Minister Vladimir Putin accused separatists in the republic of Chechnya of bombing and supporting those terrorists.

On December 24 five Urdu-speaking terrorists hijacked an Indian Airlines jet after takeoff from Kathmandu, Nepal, en route to New Delhi. The plane was flown across India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, and Oman, stopping several times. After refueling the plane at a military airfield in Dubayy, U.A.E., where a few passengers were released, the hijackers returned to Afghanistan and landed at Kandahar. Finally on December 31 negotiations involving India, the Taliban, and the hijackers won the freedom of the more than 150 hostages in exchange for the release from Indian jails of three militant Pakistani Muslims and a 10-hour head start for the terrorists to flee Afghanistan. Their identities and nationalities were not known at year's end.
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