0
   

THE US, THE UN AND IRAQ VI

 
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 May, 2004 01:55 pm
Rocket doggy, I and many others have posted evidence in the past regarding the antipathy between AQ and Husein. Your stubborn insistence on favouring what you "believe" to be true, in defiance of evidence and logic makes me very unwilling to post that evidence yet again. Your rhetorical syle is remnisicent of a retarded eight year old. I hope you were a better engineer than you are a debator.
As for what a Dalek is, why not just look it up in your substitute for a brain (the dictionary)?
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 May, 2004 02:02 pm
ican711nm wrote:

Bingo!

Any recidivism in the last 20 years?


There are one or two things, I don't joke about.
This is one.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 May, 2004 02:14 pm
Joe Nation wrote:
Oh stop!


You stop! Saddam skimmed billions of dollars from the UN Oil-for-Food program. He distributed much of it to secret accounts and many known ones. Wait about 30 days to get additional specifics in addition to those in the article on this subject that I posted above.

Joe Nation wrote:
And that terrorist training camp you refer to? Is that the one where the terrorists were training to overthrow Saddam sponsored by the Iranians?
Laughing

No Joe, one of those facilities (I didn't write "training camp") included an intact Boing 727 fuselage. Must have been the Kurd's (it was spotted north of Bagdag) --and not dearly beloved Saddam-- fixin' to take over the Boeing company.

Joe Nation wrote:
There were areas of Iraq where Saddam didn't have any control at all, kind of like, in this country, Idaho.


How's your chess game: How good are you at inferring what your opponent's strategy is?

Nice anticipation there, Joe. So wherever in Iraq we find evidence of WMM or WMD or Boeing fuselages will by definition be outside of Saddam's control. That's just too nifty a defense for words (errr, more words). :wink:
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 May, 2004 02:21 pm
Quote:
So wherever in Iraq we find evidence of WMM or WMD or Boeing fuselages will by definition be outside of Saddam's control. That's just too nifty a defense for words (errr, more words).

No, but when such things are found in areas outside of Husseins control, only the most simple-minded would assume that they represent government sponsored activities.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 May, 2004 02:22 pm
Quote:
You can get similar help as I got help here Texas Health Guide


Smile
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 May, 2004 02:28 pm
hobitbob wrote:
Rocket doggy, I and many others have posted evidence in the past regarding the antipathy between AQ and Husein.


No you haven't posted any such thing. All you have posted is your own and other's hearsay and other's opinions likewise based on selected hearsay.

hobitbob wrote:
Your stubborn insistence on favouring what you "believe" to be true, in defiance of evidence and logic makes me very unwilling to post that evidence yet again.


As a pyschologist would point out, this is your standard rebuttal when you have no evidence.

hobitbob wrote:
As for what a Dalek is, why not just look it up in your substitute for a brain (the dictionary)?


www.m-w.com
Quote:
The word you've entered isn't in the dictionary. Click on a spelling suggestion below or try again using the search box to the right.

Suggestions for dalek:
1. Daley
2. Dalen
3. dales
4. dealer
5. delate
6. deled
7. delayed
8. Dallas
9. Dale
10. daleth
11. delays
12. delayer
13. Dealer
14. delete


And from "the search box to the right":
Quote:
The word you've entered isn't in the dictionary. Click on a spelling suggestion below or try again using the search box to the right.

Suggestions for dalek:
1. Daley
2. Dalen
3. dales
4. dealer
5. delate
6. deled
7. delayed
8. Dallas
9. Dale
10. daleth
11. delays
12. delayer
13. Dealer
14. delete
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 May, 2004 02:32 pm
You're having such a hard time with dalek, try the following link.
http://www.doctorwhostore.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=D&Category_Code=5-PETALKDALEK
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 May, 2004 02:34 pm
Quote:
All you have posted is your own and other's hearsay and other's opinions likewise based on selected hearsay.

I ,and others, have posted links to newpaper and journal articles from reputable sources, as well as links to speeches from Bush administration officials, all of which state that there was no link between Hussein and AQ. That you choose to believe the voices in your head over valid information says wonders about you and your ability to reason.

As for you dictionary lacking the word Dalek, that doesn't say much for your dictionary, dies it?
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 May, 2004 02:35 pm
http://www.scarboroughguidedtours.ic24.net/images/dalek.jpg
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 May, 2004 02:42 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:


Well now I know how to buy one! Hooray!

Quote:
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Alas, but me with my "dictionary for a brain" still do not know what a Dalek is!
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 May, 2004 02:54 pm
Oh ye of little imagination. Sad

BTW, you can get a better deal at SF conventions. Wink
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 May, 2004 02:55 pm
hobitbob wrote:
I ,and others, have posted links to newpaper and journal articles from reputable sources, as well as links to speeches from Bush administration officials, all of which state that there was no link between Hussein and AQ.


First, you in particular ave damned the Bush administration people as unreliable. Or are they reliable only when they say what you want to believe what they say? As for your allegedly "reputable sources, cut the BS and provide the evidence. All I have encountered are opinion with the vacuous statement that they, the opinion givers, have not found any evidence that AQ and Saddam have a relationship. Well, I have encountered evidence that they did had a relationship. I have stated above what that evidence is. Do the same: state what your evidence is!

hobitbob wrote:
As for you dictionary lacking the word Dalek, that doesn't say much for your dictionary, dies it?


I'm beginning to think it says a lot. Namely, it probably doesn't contain the names of minor science fiction entities.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 May, 2004 02:56 pm
Waiting for cruise missles to be launched towards militias in Ohio...still waiting...soon, I'm sure.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 May, 2004 03:00 pm
hobitbob wrote:
http://www.scarboroughguidedtours.ic24.net/images/dalek.jpg


So that's a Dalek!

Which, the little house or the thing that looks like a lost space capsule?
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 May, 2004 03:15 pm
ican711nm wrote:
[ Well, I have encountered evidence that they did had a relationship. I have stated above what that evidence is. Do the same: state what your evidence is!


What is this mysterious evidence? You have alluded to it across several threads, and never elucidated it. The closest you have come is that "they are all Arabs." If this is your evidence, it is not merely lacking, but idiotic!
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 May, 2004 03:51 pm
hobitbob wrote:
What is this mysterious evidence? [/quote]

"mysterious evidence"? Coming from you that's Laughing

First I'll post this:

THE REAL WORLD
Oil for Memories
How the U.N. can begin paying its debt to Iraq's people.
BY CLAUDIA ROSETT
Wednesday, April 21, 2004 12:01 a.m. EDT

Quote:
Having helped sustain and humor the tyranny and fraud of Saddam Hussein
for years via the massively corrupt Oil-for-Food program, the United
Nations has for the past year been seeking a new role for itself in
Iraq.

Presiding over the legitimation of a new Iraqi government, which seems
to be the current grand ambition, is not a good place for the U.N. to
start. At the very least, a project of such complexity, requiring the
highest possible degree of integrity, needs to wait until the various
investigations now in motion, or about to begin, have reported back. We
need some better explanation of how the U.N., charged with overseeing
the $100 billion-plus Oil-for-Food program, allowed Saddam to filch at
least $10 billion, peddle influence possibly with the U.N. itself, set
up front companies, procure clandestine arms, fund the regime's
murderous security services, and so on. It would also be valuable to
have some clear idea of how the U.N. proposes to reform its own deeply
entrenched patterns of privilege and secrecy, to prevent its future
collusion in such abuses, or in other wrongdoing to which the current
system of patronage and confidentiality now lends itself.

Before the U.N. again goes about the business of trying to supervise
anyone else, It would be vital to see real reforms not simply discussed
but genuinely carried out. Although, given the pace and zeal with which
such U.N. figures as Secretary-General Kofi Annan, or the veto-wielding
French and Russian missions, approached the prospect of even inquiring
into Oil-for-Food, any genuine reform at the UN could take a while.
Perhaps by the time the grandchildren of today's youth in Iraq are
running for office in routinely democratic elections, the U.N. will have
rearranged itself as an institution qualified to advise them on the
process.

But in the meantime, is there anything the U.N. might usefully do in
Iraq?

Well, yes. There's one thing that leaps to mind. It has to do with
Saddam-generated cash still on tap at the U.N., and a project in need of
funding in Baghdad that would genuinely help spell the beginning of a
healthy, post-Saddam identity for Iraq.

Recall that during the Oil-for-Food program, which ran from 1996-2003,
the U.N. Secretariat collected some $1.4 billion in commissions from
Saddam, to cover the costs of administering Oil-for-Food. It turns out,
as U.N. Controller Jean-Pierre Halbwachs confirmed to me earlier this
month, that left over from these commissions, the U.N. Secretariat still
has in its coffers some $100 million. This, Mr. Halbwachs explained, is
at the moment being held against potential liabilities arising from the
terrorist bombing last August of the U.N. offices in Iraq.

Given that the independent report last October on the U.N.'s security
systems in Baghdad found the entire U.N. security apparatus
"dysfunctional," and given that the dysfunction was so egregious that
the U.N. recently fired the official in charge, it seems strange to
reserve that $100 million to help the U.N. potentially cover the cost of
its own grievous mistakes. That money was meant to help provide for the
betterment of the 26 million citizens of Iraq, not insure the U.N.
against its own malfunctions.

As it happens, Iraq-born architect Kanan Makiya was in New York recently
seeking funds for the project of building a memorial and a holocaust
museum in Baghdad, the better to help Iraq's people understand and come
to grips with the atrocities of Saddam's regime. The project would
include the cataloguing and preservation of millions of pages of
documentation, and the presentation of evidence about the decades of
abuse that took place, from which Iraq must still recover. Mr. Makiya is
director of the Iraq Memory Foundation (www.iraqmemory.org), which is
trying to assemble this project. His proposal states: "The Iraq Memory
Foundation is not a project intended to apportion blame or play
politics. First and foremost it is designed to allow future generations
of Iraqis to glimpse the inner sanctum of the atrocities that were
perpetrated during the period of Ba'athist rule from 1968 until 2003."
For a location, Mr. Makiya has already secured the site in Baghdad of
the infamous huge crossed swords, built by Saddam to celebrate "victory"
in the Iran-Iraq war. The plan, says Mr. Makiya, is not to remove the
monument, but to build a museum and memorial of the Iraq holocaust at
the very location--an Iraqi version of "Never Forget."

It is hard to think of someone better qualified to convey this message
than Mr. Makiya, a former exile who returned to Baghdad after Iraq's
liberation. In exile he devoted himself to uncovering the truth of the
Baathist atrocities, and tried to tell a world--including the U.N.--that
largely did not want to hear. In such works as "Republic of Fear,"
"Cruelty and Silence," and "The Monument," a book about the site he is
now proposing for the memorial, Mr. Makiya over the past quarter century
was already at work unearthing what documentation he could, and
explaining, eloquently, the cruelties of Saddam's totalitarian state. It
was a system, he notes, that had in common with the terrorists of our
time "an almost complete reduction of all politics into violence."

For this project, Mr. Makiya is seeking, ultimately, an endowment of
some $40 million. That's less than half what is still sitting in the
Secretariat's own Oil-for-Food account, and it is hard to imagine a more
appropriate use of this money than to help Iraqis document, preserve and
confront the full truth of Saddam's abuse. In the interest of fairness,
the U.N. might also want to turn over a portion of the remaining $60
million or so for a memorial in northern Iraq, where Saddam used
chemical weapons to murder thousands of Kurds, and another portion to
southern Iraq, site of so many of Saddam's mass graves. It would be the
philosophical beginning of restitution for U.N. collusion with Saddam,
and of genuine re-legitimization for the U.N. in Iraq.

Of course, the U.N. may want to be sure that the money is well spent,
and properly accounted for. Mr. Makiya would be glad to engage in fully
transparent bookkeeping, disclosed to the public and done in accordance
with top international standards. All around, it's the kind of project
the U.N. would do well not only to support, but even to emulate.

Ms. Rosett is a fellow at the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies
and the Hudson Institute. Her column appears here and in The Wall Street
Journal Europe on alternate Wednesdays.
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 May, 2004 03:57 pm
I think there a lot of politicians, clerics, pundits and posters who we should invite aboard the Tardis for a one-way trip into the far past where their minds are mired in anyway. (The Tardis is the time warping ship that's disguised as a London phone booth).
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 May, 2004 03:59 pm
hobitbob,
I'll post the more specific evidence when I get back later tonight.
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 May, 2004 04:09 pm
ican711nm wrote:
hobitbob,
I'll post the more specific evidence when I get back later tonight.

Tanslation: I hope the dicussion will have progressed past this point by the time I return, so I won't have to be reminded that I'm standing on thin air.

I'm actually quite eager to see this "evidence" of yours. You have managed to avoid actually presenting it since at least last November. Your WSJ opinion piece says nothing about Hussein's involvement with international terrorism. I wonder if this reporesents your poor reading comprehension skills, or merely an attempt to deflect the thread from the questions we haev asked of you?
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 May, 2004 06:53 pm
Was the week just passed the week that the worm turned?

It sure feels like it.

The impact of those pictures taken in the Iraqi prison, the withdrawal from Fallujah, bringing back a top Republican Guard general, another shipment of tanks rushed to the theater, proper troop levels in dispute, lingering resentment in the Middle East over Bush's embrace of Sharon's plan, some members of the Coalition now much less willing, opponents of the war now being charged as racist or anti-Semitic, general confusion as to who exactly is in control over what in Iraq, a sharp increase of troop fatalities, private contractors misbehaving, Ahmed Chalabi still getting money for his services, the Deputy Secretary of Defense doesn't know how many have died, time (now a vital commodity) lost due to the Provisional Authority squandering months of opportunity, the visceral reaction from the "liberal media" to Nightline's reading of the names of the fallen, and so on.

The smell of "we can't win" is pretty strong right now.

Question: Is anybody in control?

If this mission is as important as Bush said it is (ie defeating evil-doers) then why hasn't there been somebody on top of the situation?

It sure isn't the president.
0 Replies
 
 

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