@ossobuco,
Quote:
I still take our poster's moves on the stairs as a clue to the guy that she wanted him.
She wanted to do with him what she was doing at the time on the stairs. What she wanted to do with him later in the car did not include actual intercourse.
It's one thing if you're stoned or drunk, and driven by desire, and doing what you want to be doing at the time. But, at some point, Dosed felt she did not want to have intercourse with him. Her desire didn't include having him penetrate her.
Dosed said:
Quote:I remember asking him if I could kiss him, and then we made out in the bar. The next thing I remember is straddling him on a staircase outside of the bar as we waited for our ride. The next thing I remember is being in the backseat of a car and him being on top of me. I remember thinking that we were having sex and freaking out in my mind because I didn't want that to happen
Dosed really didn't know this man. She had met him once before. She was also very drunk, which is why her memory is spotty for what occurred. Apparently all she wanted to do was make out with him. There's nothing wrong with that. I don't think that just because a woman's willing to make out with a man (with her friend sitting in the front seat of the car) that should automatically be interpreted by the man as an invitation to have intercourse, particularly when the woman's very drunk.
Dosed said:
Quote: I remember we were making out and I was fine with that, I became uneasy when I realized that something--either his fingers or his penis--was inside me. And that's when I remember being scared because I didn't know what was happening. It didn't occur to me to say no, all I could do was ask if he had a condom on
I don't think the legalities are the most important issue here, but they are worth discussing. Legally, what happened can be considered rape--it was unwanted sexual penetration--and it was done with her acquiescence, mainly because she was so drunk, but acquiescence is not the same as legally defined consent. In fact, Dosed was likely too drunk to be able to legally consent, and there is a legal burden of responsibility on the man to be aware of that fact. That's how a man can get himself into legal difficulty, particularly with a woman he doesn't know well. Any man in that situation who doesn't have the sense to refrain from intercourse, should at least wait until the woman sends a definite message she wants him to continue, and even then, he should think twice about it.
The problem in Dosed's situation isn't the rape laws, the rape laws have little or nothing to do with what went on. The problem is two very intoxicated people, who barely know each other, putting themselves in situations when they can't think straight, or control the situation if they need to. And, just because you wind up in the back seat of a car, with a very drunk female, and she's been making out with you, doesn't mean she wants to have intercourse--at the very least, you should ask her about that before you just penetrate her, not just because of rape laws, but out of simple basic consideration for her feelings.
Quote:You would have wanted him to say, Halt! Do you consent?
I would have wanted him to ask, in some way, if it was alright if he entered her. When I've been with men I didn't know well, and they were at all unsure about what I wanted, or didn't want, they asked me. There was nothing awkward about it. People do communicate about these things--they should communicate about these things.
Having intercourse isn't exactly like shaking hands. Unwanted intercourse is unpleasant, it's emotionally distressing, and that's exactly how Dosed described her feelings afterward. Had the man known she didn't want to have intercourse, he might well have just accepted that--but he never asked her. What happened to simply being considerate of someone's feelings? It doesn't sound as if Dosed and this man were exactly being swept along by passion in the back seat of the car. Given the particular situation they were in, he should have asked her before entering her. Better yet, he should have realized she was too drunk, and he should have simply continued making out with her.
I think what happened to Dosed is more a cautionary tale about consuming too much alcohol than anything to do with the rape laws. And that goes for the man too. It was reckless behavior on both their parts to get so drunk. Forget about rape charges, what about sexually transmitted diseases, or an unwanted pregnancy? The issue of whether the man actually put a condom on was rather moot. He said he did, but he might not have, and Dosed was too drunk to know. The lesson to be learned from this is more about excessive drinking than anything else.
I also appreciate Dosed's honesty in this thread. I hope she continues to add to the discussion.
