The Republican Nomination For President: The Race For The Race For The White House

@Cycloptichorn,

I think Willard will have a problem with being a Mormon on the national level. Christians are a pretty tough crowd when it comes to their belief about Jesus, they're the majority.

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@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

I think Willard will have a problem with being a Mormon on the national level. Christians are a pretty tough crowd when it comes to their belief about Jesus, they're the majority.

I think so too, though nobody wants to talk about it.

Cycloptichorn

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He'll probably have the Missouri vote sewed up, though. After all, the Mormons are the only ones who think the Garden of Eden was really somewhere near St. Joseph, Missouri--that's gotta count for something.

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@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

I think Willard will have a problem with being a Mormon on the national level. Christians are a pretty tough crowd when it comes to their belief about Jesus, they're the majority.

Christians are the majority and they have a bigger problem with Obama than they could ever have with a Mormon.

1 Reply

@H2O MAN,

H2O MAN wrote:

cicerone imposter wrote:

I think Willard will have a problem with being a Mormon on the national level. Christians are a pretty tough crowd when it comes to their belief about Jesus, they're the majority.

Christians are the majority and they have a bigger problem with Obama than they could ever have with a Mormon.

Well that's just flat wrong.

1 Reply

@Questioner,

Proof that it's flat wrong?

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

Quote:

@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:

Quote:
Where is the polling data that backs up what you are saying??? Is there any, or is it all Anecdotal, all the time?

I acknowledge that a great deal of it is anecdotal...but some of the posts and threads in other forums (forums with a much, much larger population) indicate that the anger and hatred from the left often exceeds some of the crap coming from the right. (H2O is an exception. He seems to be as anti-Obama as any of the folks I am using to form my opinion.)

Do you know that these people are actually Democrats? I ask, because there are several forums - Conservative forums - where I post on a regular basis, without actively advertising my true preferences. If you get my meaning.

Quote:
Cyclop...it strictly is an OPINION...and I do not have hard data to back me up. But the fact that Obama is polling almost neck and neck with Romney right now, is not a pleasant indicator for those of us who want Obama re-elected. The incumbent should be comfortably ahead.

Well in an ideal world, yeah, lol.

I guess all I can say is, the man is ahead and has several inherent advantages. And he hasn't spent a single dime on the campaign yet!

Take a look at recent polling -

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/us/general_election_romney_vs_obama-1171.html

Would I be happier if Obama was +5 or +10%? Of course I would. But I'm happy that he has ANY lead at all, given the last few years we've seen. And in polling breakdowns that I've seen, FAR higher percentages of Liberals and Dems indicate satisfaction with Obama, than Republicans do with Romney. Far higher.

Take a look at Romney's favorability ratings -

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/02/chart-of-the-day-how-badly-did-florida-hurt-romney/252360/

The moment they started to turn around is when Bain Capital and his fortune began to be discussed in the media. From that point on Romney's ratings have plummeted - especially amongst independent voters. You look at this, and think it's a bad sign for Obama?

Quote:
One: I have seldom if ever heard a conservative say he/she will not definitely vote for the Republican candidate if that candidate was not the one he/she was supporting...

Do you read any GOP message boards? At all? I'm telling ya Frank I read comments like this every single day. I have read 25+ comments today from people who swear that they will not vote for Romney under any circumstances. Today alone!

And from an anecdotal point of view, as I had mentioned earlier in this thread, at Christmas this year, my entire Republican family (20+ Texan Conservatives) were disgusted with Romney. They hate the man! They don't trust him in the slightest, and why should they? I'm sure some of them will vote for him, but the majority wanted... 'Anyone but Romney!' They don't think he can win.

Quote:
...and have heard dozens upon dozens of self-described liberals contend they will not vote for Obama UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES WHATEVER.

Even if some of them do eventually change their mind...their proclamations are swaying uncommitted people in the middle of the political spectrum to move toward the Republican. (If his own people will not support him....)

Polling shows Obama getting support from similar percentages of support as his last election run. I can't put it any simpler than that. Talk is cheap; many of those people will eventually vote for him.

Quote:
Two: The word "liberal" honestly has become the kiss of death in our country. Nobody can run for nation wide office using "liberal" as a mantra. But conservatives fight over using the word "conservative." The argue over who is most conservative; who has longest been a conservative; who truly represents conservative values....and such. Have you ever heard politicians arguing over who is the most liberal; who has been a liberal longest; who truly represents liberal values?

MY BET: No you haven't...and you won't any time soon.

This is in large part b/c the Conservatives have spent a metric ton of cash over the last 30 years to define 'liberalism' in exactly that fashion: a negative one. And the so-called 'liberal' media does nothing to keep them from doing so, whatsoever.

Quote:
All of which form the basis for the OPINION I shared.

Opinions are great; but without evidence, why should anyone worry about them? I have found that anecdotal evidence is never a good predictor of future events or wide trends. And there are several reasons for Obama supporters to feel positive moving into the next election. It's going to be a hard struggle; nobody claims any differently (unless Gingrich were to win, in which case, it's Obama in a landslide). But there's little reason to not feel good about Obama's chances.

Cycloptichorn

Okay, Cyclop, you've convinced me.

Nothing to worry about folks. Forget the inappropriately dire warnings about not getting too complacent. Everything is under control.

We've got another five years before we have to worry about a Republican getting into the Oval Office.

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@Frank Apisa,

Is that the "final" word? Razz

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@Frank Apisa,

As I mention to my wife frequently, the solution to a problem isn't to do the exact opposite of what you were doing before.

Saying 'there's nothing to worry about' isn't the point that I'm making. There IS something to worry about: Obama very well could lose the election. And if those of us who support him don't work hard, this is more likely to happen.

But, if it were held today - he would win. There's no reason to believe that he's starting from some sort of deficit. He's ahead in polling and in money raised. He has higher favorable ratings than his opponent - much higher ones. He has an election team that knows what they are doing. He enjoys the support (and this is consistent across many polls) of the vast majority of Democrats. His opponent cannot say the same regarding Republicans - at least, not yet. I have no doubt Romney will shore up a bit by election time.

I'm telling ya, if you want to see pessimism, spend less time on liberal message boards, and more time on conservative ones. They are nothing but internecine warfare, backbiting, and glum outlooks these days.

Cycloptichorn

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@H2O MAN,

Being a Christian, and living in Utah, gives me a little insight into how that actually plays out.

First though, the majority of Christians would vote Republican almost solely because of the abortion and gay-rights issues. Romney has only ever been wishy-washy on abortion, claiming in 05 that he's pro-life, but that he believes that the states should be allowed to determine their own abortion laws. His approach has always been 'I will not force my beliefs on others on that matter.' Which is precisely the opposite of what the evangelical voters want to hear.

Romney supports domestic partnership benefits (at the state level, of course, because why put your neck out). He has been quoted "We must make equality for gays and lesbians a mainstream concern."

So when you look at what Obama has done in these two categories (which, I believe, is nothing) and you look at what Romney's standpoint on both is, I can't see a compelling reason for the evangelicals to be jumping on the Romney bandwagon.

Now, as for his being a mormon. . . .

Evangelicals have a HARD time with the LDS church. Primarily because, when Joseph Smith first prayed to God and asked what religion he should follow God told him that they were all basically corrupt and that he should follow none, but rather start his own.

For the first decades of the Mormon faith they did everything they could to set themselves apart from Christianity. Their theology is strained past the point of credulity, and only recently did they discover that they can be taken more seriously by including the name Jesus in their official church title (Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints) but they can also steal more Evangelical converts by claiming to also be Christian and by having 'the rest of the story'.

So, Mormons now refer to themselves as 'Christians'. However, because of the shattered theology that they still cling too, this means that they're also the only 'true' Christians. You can imagine the evangelical reaction to that notion.

Bottom line is, there is a fairly large and very obvious rift between the two religious institutions that I don't think the hatred of one candidate over another will necessarily bridge.

But since you brought up proof, got any stats on your claim?

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@Questioner,

The over riding factor that you fail to include is that American Christians
want Obama out of office and they will do what it takes to make this happen.

Listen to FA, he is on the right track here.

1 Reply

@H2O MAN,

H2O MAN wrote:

The over riding factor that you fail to include is that American Christians
want Obama out of office and they will do what it takes to make this happen.

So, you've got nothing. Thought as much. Keep the record on repeat then.

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@Questioner,

Denial will not make your opinion more true.

BTW, your opinion does not qualify as researched proof.

1 Reply

@H2O MAN,

H2O MAN wrote:

Denial will not make your opinion more true.

Nor blind repetition yours.

1 Reply

@Questioner,

Fine, wear your blinders and stick to the path, just get out
of the way when everyone is blowing their horns at you.

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@Questioner,

Thanks, Questioner, for addressing the "Mormon Issue." We have talked about that here, with most of us agreeing that the media is either reluctant to talk about it or can't get reliable input from people they poll.
I suspect it could be a problem for Romney and I hope you will follow up on that as we move on. As you may know I started this thread and am always eager to here from "reporters in the field."
(ps: H2O believes that he does not have to prove or source his claims like the rest of do. Rather, anyone who disagrees with him has to prove him wrong. It is simpler for him if he doesn't have to do research.)

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@Questioner,

Questioner wrote:

H2O MAN wrote:

The over riding factor that you fail to include is that American Christians
want Obama out of office and they will do what it takes to make this happen.

So, you've got nothing. Thought as much. Keep the record on repeat then.

Of course he doesn't, the man is a fool. He's never written two affirmative paragraphs about anything in his life; I doubt he even has the capability to engage on an adult level in any way.

His constant use of juvenile and sexualized insults are a device intended to cover up his deep insecurity about his inability to engage with other posters on their own level.

Cycloptichorn

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Cylotroll and Questioner are stuck on denial.
The proof is in their asinine comments.

1 Reply

@H2O MAN,

Cyclo claims you are a fool. Can you prove, H2O, that you are not a fool?

4 Replies

@realjohnboy,

$20 says no way...

0 Replies

The Republican Nomination For President: The Race For The Race For The White House

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