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The Republican Nomination For President: The Race For The Race For The White House

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2012 12:07 pm
@sozobe,
Pictures can be worth a thousand words, but in this case the split in the parties makes it impossible for the conservatives to understand what the picture says. Their message is that Obama is spending too much, and increasing the national debt. They forget that most of Obama's spending has been necessary, because of GW Bush's Great Recession to help Americans get fed. The conservatives wanted to continue our wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, because......without having any thought about how much those wars have already cost our nation in our men, women, and treasure.

The division between the parties is too large, and there are no bridges big enough connect the divide; not in today's party politics.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2012 12:09 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
I'm with you! This crop of candidates for president of the US are destroying this country with their lies and unethical behavior; there's no more "class" left in our head of state. Their messages don't align with what they do when they take office. It's all a sham.


What planet have you been on for the last 30 or 40 years, CI?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2012 12:16 pm
@JTT,
Where have you been? Our country, although not perfect, has remained the superpower of this world with only five percent of the world population. We've been doing many things right, but the direction that our current crop of presidents have been taking us has depleted our national honor and direction. The OWS is only the beginning of what I hope is a change in our politics and economy. Things like this do not change overnight.

This is the first time in my life that I've been disgusted with all the candidates for president - where I will not vote for any.
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2012 12:18 pm
I heard on this morning's news-talk shows both Joe Scarborough and Pat Buchanan complaining that Newt was back.

Both of them quoted from the last speech he made on the floor of Congress where Newt called the GOP members who were firing him "the perfectionist caucus" and "jihadists".

I think they thought they were rid of him as long as he was happy raking in the bucks as an "historian" on the payroll of Freddie Mac.

Joe helped put Newt out in 1998 and put in Bob Livingston, a true conservative. You remember him, right? No?
He was another one of the family values crew who like to screw on the side of their marriage(s) and he disappeared juuuussst before the **** hit the fan.
Good pick, guys.

Joe(this is fun)Nation
0 Replies
 
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2012 12:19 pm
The SC primary is so yesterday. It is interesting, though, to look at some of the exit polls:
> Newt did not seem to be hurt badly amongst women voters.
> Self-described Repubs went for him 45% to 28% over Mitt.
> Self-described Indys gave Ron 23% vs 31% for Newt and 25% for Mitt.
There is a lot of other stuff on the exit polling. I found a story on it all on the NYT's site.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2012 12:20 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
I didn't see any source, Cy, but regardless, I wanted to hear Soz's take on it all.

Here's a good analysis of this issue:

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2011/07/the-chart-that-should-accompany-all-discussions-of-the-debt-ceiling/242484/

Economic Downturn and Legacy of Bush Policies Drive Record Deficits

and also,


Quote:
Why does this chart matter? Because it makes clear, in that wonderful "worth 1,000 words" way, two realities that are fundamental to sane discussion of public finance, but that most of the public doesn't realize and that the Republican leadership is actively working to obscure. They are:

- The very large, but temporary and self-limiting, expenditures for TARP and other measures proposed by both the Bush and Obama administrations to avoid a second Great Depression, plus Obama stimulus spending. And;

- The very large, but permanent and worsening, budgetary impact of the "Bush tax cuts" -- which when first proposed back in the pre-9/11 era, were supposed to end in 2010 and were in response to what back then seemed to be the "problem" of a burgeoning surplus in federal accounts! Since "extending" those cuts just sounds like business as usual, I think it is hard for most people to envision the profound and growing effect they have. The chart above helps toward that end -- and doesn't even go into how heavily those cuts are skewed to the "haves" of society. Last year Austan Goolsbee had a marvelous chart of his own on that point.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2011/07/the-chart-that-should-accompany-all-discussions-of-the-debt-ceiling/242484/

And here's one more for good measure, from the same CBPP source:

[see chart at above link]

Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2012 12:23 pm
@JTT,
You right-click on the image and select 'copy image source.' That will bring up the site it was linked from every time.

Cycloptichorn
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2012 12:24 pm
@JTT,
The one thing that chart misses is that Obama extended the Bush tax cuts, and doesn't show on his part of the deficit.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2012 12:25 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
Our country, although not perfect, has remained the superpower of this world with only five percent of the world population.


That's no different than saying that John Gotti was the superpower of New York city. No one has any complaints about the good that certain parties in the US do. You have to remember how the US got to this position, CI. It's the war crimes and the terrorism, the theft of other countries' wealth.

You know this already, as do all the other folks who dance around the issue. It's the hypocrisy, the constant drumbeat of how great America is when it's not great at all. It's just a very successful thief.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2012 12:26 pm
@JTT,
There's a huge difference that you will never see. Your analogy misses the whole point.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2012 12:29 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
The one thing that chart misses is that Obama extended the Bush tax cuts,


Quote:
UPDATE: Many people have written to ask how the impact of the "Bush-era tax cuts," enacted under George W. Bush and extended under Barack Obama (with the help, as you will recall, of huge pressure from Senate Republicans), is divided between the two presidents. I don't know and have written the creators of the chart to ask. (They have responded to say: it indicates the legacy effects of the changes made by each Administration. For instance, neither Bush nor Obama is credited with the entire cost of Pentagon spending or entitlements, but only the changes his Administration made, up or down. By this logic the long-run effect of tax cuts initiated by Bush is assigned to him, as any long-run effect of savings he initiated would be too.)

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2011/07/the-chart-that-should-accompany-all-discussions-of-the-debt-ceiling/242484/
0 Replies
 
realjohnboy
 
  2  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2012 12:30 pm
I don't mean to be a jerk, but I would like to respectfully ask that the discussion of what the deficit was when and who is responsible be moved to the thread devoted to "Where Is The U.S. Economy Headed?"
We have a lot to talk about here relating to the Repub contest.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2012 12:30 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
There's a huge difference that you will never see. Your analogy misses the whole point.


This "huge difference" is one that no one is willing to ever try to explain. Have at 'er, CI.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2012 12:33 pm
I am starting a different thread on why to not automatically vote Obama.
snood
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2012 12:44 pm
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:

I am starting a different thread on why to not automatically vote Obama.


That's fine, but it does bear mentioning that "Obama hasn't been a Democrat for the last 3 years" and "Why not to automatically vote for Obama" are not exactly the same thing...
0 Replies
 
revelette
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2012 12:46 pm
I really didn't think he would pull off a SC win. Surely the rest of the country won't be so willing to overlook, well everything about Newt because he manged to make a moderator look stupid? Gosh I hope this is not a harbinger of things to come.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2012 12:48 pm
@revelette,
It's been swinging towards this basement for some years now. Remember what the republicans did to their own John McCain?
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  4  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2012 12:52 pm
Earlier, I wrote:


Quote:
And it doesn't match up with the sentiment in another very liberal forum in which I post. The "very liberal" element there says they are going to sit the election out rather than vote for Obama. Their anger toward him, which I attribute to unrealistic expectations, is enormous...and I honestly do not see them voting for him no matter what. They would much rather throw out the baby with the bath water.


Well...I'm seeing lots of it here in this forum now.

This is not going to be a "run-away" for Obama.

At best, it is going to be a hard-won victory.

And it may very well end up a loss.

For those who are "sitting it out" or "voting for a third party candidate"...if it does end up a loss...I will be interested to see if how long it will take you to see that your move was a bad move.

I, like many progressives of the time, voted for Reagan on his first run, because I was sorely disappointed in Carter and wanted to teach him a lesson.

Well, we succeeded. We taught him a lesson. America is STILL paying the price for that mistake.
Lustig Andrei
 
  2  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2012 12:55 pm
@Frank Apisa,
I am 100 % behind you on that sentiment, Frank.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Jan, 2012 12:57 pm
@Frank Apisa,
A GOP insider has stated that if Gingrich is the nominee, Obama will win 45 states.

Meanwhile the odds have gone up for Obama on intrade. (Almost 56% compared to 53% yesterday.)
 

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