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The Republican Nomination For President: The Race For The Race For The White House

 
 
georgeob1
 
  0  
Reply Fri 6 Jan, 2012 11:51 pm
@Thomas,
Thomas wrote:

georgeob1 wrote:
One here is reminded of Ronald Reagan's rhetorical question to his audience during the 1979 campaign, "Are you better off today than you were four years ago?"

Thanks for reminding me that that I should have said "one year", not "four years". Case in point: In November 1980, average Americans were doing better, wage-wise and employment-wise, than in November 1976. But they were doing a lot worse than in November 1979. That's what cost Carter the presidency. (Data at bls.gov and research.stlouisfed.gov.) Similarly, with opposite sign, in November 1984, when workers were doing slightly worse than in November 1980 but much better than in November 1983. So, voters have shorter memories than Ronald Reagan gave them credit for. But the rest of my point still stands.


I don't think that Jimmy Carter lost the presidency over such an obscure point. There were many other factors, including his patronizing scolding of Amerricans (the malaise speech) and his eagerness to reform small details of our lives (like the 55 mph speed limit) and his inept handling of critical foreign policy issues to name but a few. The election wasn't even close.
alicekd
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 7 Jan, 2012 12:10 am
My name is Alice Dickson. My Dad actually filed an Amicus Brief in the Supreme Court to make the parties aware of a little math error that he caught in the Affordable Care Act. He found that when the true cost of this health care, without the subsidies, is put into effect, young people will end up paying 100% more than a fair price for insurance.
Edit (Moderator): Call to action removed
hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Jan, 2012 12:18 am
@alicekd,
That's very nice Alice - how will it affect the Republican nomination?
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Sat 7 Jan, 2012 12:20 am
@Lustig Andrei,
Lustig Andrei wrote:
What cost Carter the presidency was the Iran hostage crisis
combined with his Rose Garden campaigning policy.
OmSigDAVID wrote:
Of course; no cared about stag flation; that was OK.
The Misery Index was fine too. Everyone knows that.
Lustig Andrei wrote:
No doubt there were quite a number of things wrong with the Carter presidency, David.
No doubt.

What shall we call it? Irony? Poetic justice?
Lucky chance? At the GOP Convention, Gerry Ford spoke,
reminding us of Carter's "Misery Index" (from Arthur Okun)
calculated by adding unemployment to inflation rates.
At the end of Carter 's Administration, it was worse
when Ford cited to it,
than when Carter cited to it in Ford's Administration.





Lustig Andrei wrote:
I still maintain, however, that the proximate cause of his defeat
was the Iran hostage situation and his total inability to deal with that.
I 'll not deny it; but how did James Carville put it? "Its the economy, Stupid!"



Lustig Andrei wrote:
As soon as Ronald Reagan was inaugurated, the hostages were released.
YEAH, within a few minutes.




Lustig Andrei wrote:
It was, apparently, obvious to the powers in Teheran
that Reagan was not going to pussyfood around.
We seldom agree, Andy, but we agree about THAT.





David

0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Reply Sat 7 Jan, 2012 12:49 am
@georgeob1,
Of course he didn't, and anyone who asserts he did, can't or has chosen not to remember what life was like in America under his presidency.

Gas lines.

Mortgage interest rates in excess of 18%

No Olympics when we could have very easily shoved it up the Russian nose by participating and beating their statist athletes.

The humiliation of a third world nation sticking it up our national ass and the utter failure in the desert of our knocking their blocks off.

Our Commander-in-Chief being menaced by a swimming rabbit.

At least his 10 year old daughter Amy told him that her greatest concern was nuceear proliferation

Carter was the worst president in my lifetime. Said to say I voted for him.

Obama is very bad, but even he has been better than Carter.

And this nonsense about him being a great ex-president?

Positive: Habitat for Humanity which probably didn't need his backing to take off.

Negative: North Korea (so many incidents) and his narcissism induced break with hundreds of year of tradition wherein past presidents don't criticize the current one.

Jimmy Carter = One Big Peanut Sucking Genetically Flushed Out Dick

PS: Who was Jimbo's favorite world leader? The Shah of Iran. One New Year's Eve, Jimmy asked Roslyn where she wanted to celebrate the event. She responded Iran, and so they did.

Thomas
 
  2  
Reply Sat 7 Jan, 2012 01:19 am
@Lustig Andrei,
Lustig Andrei wrote:
What cost Carter the presidency was the Iran hostage crisis combined with his Rose Garden campaigning policy.

The test---do Americans have higher wages or lower unemployment than a year ago?---picks the winner of almost every presidential election since the Census Bureau has started collecting this data. (And the only reason I say "almost" is that I haven't checked literally all elections myself. I can't think of an exception.) We can always speculate about other reasons. But historically, no other reasons have proven necessary to predict the outcome.
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Jan, 2012 01:41 am
@Thomas,
Thomas wrote:
(And the only reason I say "almost" is that I haven't checked literally all elections myself. I can't think of an exception.)

Actually, one exception: Bush v. Gore in 2000, where Gore won the popular vote but lost the election.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Jan, 2012 05:16 am
@alicekd,
Hi, Alice; WELCOME to the forum!!!

I hope that u 'll enjoy it in the best of health.





David
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Jan, 2012 11:44 am
@Thomas,
It's not the topline unemployment number that matters for elections - it's the rate of change in the year leading up to it that matters:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/news/ap/politics/2012/Jan/07/in_elections__jobless_trend_matters_more_than_rate.html

Cycloptichorn
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Sat 7 Jan, 2012 11:53 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
PS: Who was Jimbo's favorite world leader?
The Shah of Iran. One New Year's Eve,
Jimmy asked Roslyn where she wanted to celebrate the event.
She responded Iran, and so they did.
Carter stabbed him in the back.
I blame Carter for the Moslems' successfully taking over Iran et seq.
Carter shoud have supported the Shah
and he shoud NOT have given away the Panama Canal, American territory.

I 'm proud to say that I voted AGAINST Carter.





David
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Jan, 2012 11:59 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Whoops, you already pointed that out above.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Jan, 2012 12:45 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
for the Moslems' successfully taking over Iran et seq.


Om has a problem with the people of a country actually being responsible for their own governance. Why do you constantly leap forward to illustrate your profound ignorance?

Quote:
Carter shoud have supported the Shah


Too too much an American sentiment - support those brutal dictators who love to brutalize their countrymen. The hypocrisy is so so stunning. Americans love to mouth the sentiments about democracy and freedom but they never live them.

Lustig Andrei
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Jan, 2012 01:52 pm
@JTT,
Hmmm. This is fascinating.

After just collapsing three of your petulant and silly posts on the "king's English" thread, JTT, I felt duty-ound to give you a rousing 'thumbs-up' on this one. Keep up the good work.
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Sat 7 Jan, 2012 01:58 pm
@JTT,
DAVID wrote:
for the Moslems' successfully taking over Iran et seq.
JTT wrote:
Om has a problem with the people of a country actually being responsible for their own governance.
IF thay r going to be aggressive against us: YEAH!!!


JTT wrote:
Why do you constantly leap forward to illustrate your profound ignorance?
U don 't use that word correctly, J.
If u r going to allege that someone is ignorant, then u shud indicate
as to WHAT he is not informed.
There r trillions of extant facts, whereof all of us remain ignorant.


DAVID wrote:
Carter shoud have supported the Shah
JTT wrote:
Too too much an American sentiment - support those brutal dictators who love to brutalize their countrymen.
Well, American foreign policy shud be applied n judged by what is good for AMERICANS not for aliens.
That is the duty of American leaders. Their duty is to US, not to them. WE pay them; the aliens don't.

When Carter was running for office, he did not say:
"hay, vote for me and I will champion the best interests of the aliens
instead of YOUR interests, as American citizens."



JTT wrote:
The hypocrisy is so so stunning.
Americans love to mouth the sentiments about democracy
and freedom but they never live them.
We wanna live them HERE, in America.
As an American citizen, I don't give a damn whether the aliens
have democracies, except insofar as it influences life here in America.
That 's all that counts. That is not HYPOCRISY. I mean it.





David
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Sat 7 Jan, 2012 02:42 pm
@JTT,
Quote:
Om has a problem with the people of a country actually being responsible for their own governance.


Ever since Clinton/Blair in Bosnia it has been policy to be concerned about the governance of other countries and to do something about it if it is feasible which it sometimes isn't. There are both economic and moral considerations.

The Russians under Yeltsin took the view that the governance of other countries had little to do with them.

It's a tricky question in technological globalisation conditions but the drift is pretty clear.
0 Replies
 
realjohnboy
 
  6  
Reply Sat 7 Jan, 2012 03:44 pm
The locusts have landed on this thread again. One would think that a separate thread about Carter, the Shah etc would become "must reading." I can imagine thousands of viewers being mesmerized by the wisdom being expressed.
This thread, about the Republican nomination for President, is hardly a worthy venue for such scholarly debate.
There is a debate this evening, not between Carter and the Shah, but amongst the 6 Republicans. It is on ABC and runs for a mere hour between 9-10 pm. Oddly they will meet again tomorrow morning on one of the talk shows.
We can expect some amount of Obama bashing regarding-
1) Recess appointments, which may end up in court
2) Proposed defense cuts
3) The just released jobs numbers.
But given the brevity of the debate, Romney will try to stay above the fray while Newt, Santorum and Perry throw elbows.
Paul will be Paul. NH is an open primary, as I recall. A lot of potential voters describe themselves as independents.
JTT
 
  -4  
Reply Sat 7 Jan, 2012 05:29 pm
@Lustig Andrei,
Quote:
After just collapsing three of your petulant and silly posts on the "king's English" thread, JTT


Why not just answer them, Merry? You were an editor/reporter for a newspaper, were you not?

[Note how I included the "past conditional" there?]

I know full well why you've taken this tack. It's the same one you've always taken on language issues - actually, pretty much any issue.

Let me provide one of your typical inane responses so that you don't have to be bothered.

Merry: I've got three words for you, JTT, and they aren't Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Jan, 2012 06:08 pm
@realjohnboy,
Anyone who prides themselves on not having a TV will be miles more interested in Mr Carter and the Shah than in any of the TV generated moolah on ABC even if it lasts for a week and which is about nothing but why don't you guys advertise on my hoarding.

The difference between wanting power and having it is so vast that what is said by those who are wanting it is near enough to meaningless as makes no discernible difference.

Those wanting power call people up on the phone. Those having power dread the phone ringing. Especially in the middle of the night.





0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Jan, 2012 06:45 pm
@realjohnboy,
I thought it was interesting that a lot of Paul's support has been coming from voters under 30.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Sat 7 Jan, 2012 07:45 pm
@JTT,
Quote:
After just collapsing three of your petulant and silly posts on the "king's English" thread, JTT
JTT wrote:
Why not just answer them, Merry?
You were an editor/reporter for a newspaper, were you not?

[Note how I included the "past conditional" there?]
Yeah; I did too, J.
Arguably, it is folly to argue with a crazy man . . . but what the hell.

U have 2 sentences there, J; thay r otherwise known as a "run on sentence".
That is not bad enuf. The first part of your run on sentence
contradicts the last part of it. The first part of it (up to your comma) is affirmative.
The last part is a question cast in the negative.
Crafting a sentence that way only creates unnecessary confusion.
If the reply is rendered "yes" or "no"
it remains unknown whether the answer is rendered
to the first part of the run on sentence
or to the end of it.

There can be severe consequences riding on the answer,
including matters of life and death.

Years ago, an attorney told me of a murder case in whose trial
he participated. The only witness was asked something
approximately along the lines of:
"Sir, did u not see the defendant crush the decedent's head with a hammer?"
Witness says: "yes." After conviction, and after loss of the witness,
the case was appealed, arguing that the only witness had attested
that he had not seen defendant crush decedent's head with a hammer.

Appellate court reversed.
Conviction vacated; (talk about getting away with murder).

Accordingly, another trial judge (fairly well known to me)
enacted rules of court whereby attorneys were prohibited
from asking "more than 1 question at a time" in his court,
and were prohibited from asking any questions cast in the negative.





David
 

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