68
   

The Republican Nomination For President: The Race For The Race For The White House

 
 
Ceili
 
  2  
Reply Sat 7 Jan, 2012 07:49 pm
0 Replies
 
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Jan, 2012 08:35 pm
Paul scores in my mind, so far.
Some of the others try to make the point that they have experience in the private sector as workers. Tough sell.
Perry talks about being the commander in chief of thousands of "troops" in Texas.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  2  
Reply Sat 7 Jan, 2012 08:37 pm
Just watched most of the first half of tonight's NH debate (I found a live stream on an ABC affiliated site). One thing that jumps out at me so far is the way they are all letting Romney skate, and sniping at each other. Not sure what that strategy might be - any other debate I've seen both Dem and GOP, the frontrunner has had to have his/her loins girded up for an attack. Not here. Wonder why?
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Sat 7 Jan, 2012 08:53 pm
@realjohnboy,
Quote:
2) Proposed defense cuts


What a ******* joke, eh, RJB - "defense cuts", hardee har har har.

Let's describe them accurately.

proposed illegal aggression on other countries cuts
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Jan, 2012 09:07 pm
@snood,
I caught the speech by Newt the other day, just after the caucus. He officially imploded in my mind. Didnt someone take "early January" iin the Newt Dead Pool?
snood
 
  1  
Reply Sat 7 Jan, 2012 09:22 pm
@farmerman,
Didn't see the pool, but I am personally a little more nervous about the prospect of a Newt candidacy than to count him out this month.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  -4  
Reply Sat 7 Jan, 2012 09:26 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
JTT wrote:
Quote:
Why not just answer them, Merry?
You were an editor/reporter for a newspaper, were you not?

[Note how I included the "past conditional" there?]


Quote:
Om replied: Yeah; I did too, J.


You did too, what, Dave? If you are referring to the last sentence in the material that quoted me, strike one.

Quote:
U have 2 sentences there, J; thay r otherwise known as a "run on sentence".


You are a grammar idiot, Dave. There's no run on sentence and even if there was, that has nothing whatsoever to do with English grammar. Strike two.

You have something contained within that you often whine about as a error not only of grammar but also of logic. You are also an idiot where logic is involved.

Quote:
That is not bad enuf. The first part of your run on sentence
contradicts the last part of it. The first part of it (up to your comma) is affirmative.
The last part is a question cast in the negative.
Crafting a sentence that way only creates unnecessary confusion.


A GRAMMAR IDIOT, Dave, that's what you are! Have you ever heard of the exceedingly common grammatical device known as a tag question? Let me give you a few examples.

You are an idiot, aren't you, Dave?

You don't know the first thing about how language works, do you?

You're an ignorant supporter of all manner of terrorism/war crimes, aren't you?

Strike three.

Quote:
If the reply is rendered "yes" or "no"
it remains unknown whether the answer is rendered
to the first part of the run on sentence
or to the end of it.


Strike four.

I can't believe how dumb you are. Go ahead and explain your way out of this one.

Quote:
Years ago, an attorney told me of a murder case in whose trial
he participated. The only witness was asked something
approximately along the lines of:
"Sir, did u not see the defendant crush the decedent's head with a hammer?"
Witness says: "yes." After conviction, and after loss of the witness,
the case was appealed, arguing that the only witness had attested
that he had not seen defendant crush decedent's head with a hammer.


Ummmmmm, Dave, different grammatical structures. There's no tag question in your example. When you finally are able to discern the difference between an apple and an orange, we'll chat, okay?

This is as fine an example of any which illustrates that though native speakers intuitively know their language, they don't have the foggiest notion about the grammar of their language, how it actually works.
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Sun 8 Jan, 2012 01:13 am
@JTT,
I acknowledge that it is foolish of me
to continue discussion with a crazy man,
but no harm comes from it; maybe a little fun
.


JTT wrote:
Why not just answer them, Merry?
You were an editor/reporter for a newspaper, were you not?

[Note how I included the "past conditional" there?]


DAVID wrote:
Om replied: Yeah; I did too, J.


JTT wrote:
You did too, what, Dave? If you are referring to the last sentence in the material that quoted me, strike one.
U are not the umpire.


DAVID wrote:
U have 2 sentences there, J; thay r otherwise known as a "run on sentence".


JTT wrote:
You are a grammar idiot, Dave. There's no run on sentence and even if there was,
that has nothing whatsoever to do with English grammar.
Do u HAVE a definition for a run on sentence, J ??
It is hard to believe that anyone can be so ignorant of English grammar.
That is just foolishness on each count of your reply; simply devoid of merit.
NOTHING that u said is true.
Even a stopped 12 hour clock is right twice a day.
Assuming (for the moment) the absence of trolling mendacity,
u simply have no idea of what u r talking about.






JTT wrote:
Strike two.

You have something contained within that you often whine about
as a error [an error??] not only of grammar but also of logic. You are also an idiot where logic is involved.
I will re-iterate that English grammar, for the most part,
is well grounded in accurate logic.

Its ez to call anyone an idiot, as u ofen do.
U can allege that of the most intelligent person; its meaningless & harmless.



DAVID wrote:
That is not bad enuf. The first part of your run on sentence
contradicts the last part of it. The first part of it (up to your comma) is affirmative.
The last part is a question cast in the negative.
Crafting a sentence that way only creates unnecessary confusion.


JTT wrote:
A GRAMMAR IDIOT, Dave, that's what you are!
AGAIN, with the "idiot"; he LOVES that word.


JTT wrote:
Have you ever heard of the exceedingly common grammatical device
Here J tacitly implies that if something is done commonly enuf, then it is good.
For instance, drunken driving might be questionable UNLESS
it is actively practiced by a sufficient proportion of the populace.



JTT wrote:
known as a tag question? Let me give you a few examples.
You are an idiot, aren't you, Dave?

You don't know the first thing about how language works, do you?

You're an ignorant supporter of all manner of terrorism/war crimes, aren't you?

Strike three.
U merely repeated your mistake several times, J.
If u keep doing something in error, that does not make it right.
If u were arrested for murdering Mr. Jones yesterday, J,
woud u offer as a defense:
"well, its OK because I killed 6 other guys 2 weeks ago"??




DAVID wrote:
If the reply is rendered "yes" or "no"
it remains unknown whether the answer is rendered
to the first part of the run on sentence
or to the end of it.

JTT wrote:
Strike four.

I can't believe how dumb you are. Go ahead and explain your way out of this one.
U mean dumb enuf to talk to JTT????



DAVID wrote:
Years ago, an attorney told me of a murder case in whose trial
he participated. The only witness was asked something
approximately along the lines of:
"Sir, did u not see the defendant crush the decedent's head with a hammer?"
Witness says: "yes." After conviction, and after loss of the witness,
the case was appealed, arguing that the only witness had attested
that he had not seen defendant crush decedent's head with a hammer.


JTT wrote:
Ummmmmm, Dave, different grammatical structures. There's no tag question in your example.
When you finally are able to discern the difference between an apple and an orange, we'll chat, okay?
I thought that u 'd get the point about the twisted negative, with no trouble.

OK, we 'll try it with the run on sentence "tag question" that u like so much.
Imagining similar forensic circumstances:
"Sir, u saw the defendant crush the decedent's head with a hammer, did u not?"
Witness says: "yes."
[ If I were the witness, I 'd say: "yes; I did not see that. " ]

Defense counsel successfully argues to an appellate court
that the witness attested that he did not see it happen.
The appellate court vacates the conviction and dismisses the complaint, freeing the defendant.

JTT wrote:
This is as fine an example of any which illustrates that though
native speakers intuitively know their language, they don't have
the foggiest notion about the grammar of their language, how it actually works.
Just as a reminder: we don't accept u as an authority on anything, including grammar,
but u can discuss it if such be your choice.

A possible exception to that might be those to whom English is a second language.
I 'm not sure what thay think of the expertise that u attribute to yourself.

Maybe, u might have them hoodwinked.
Lustig Andrei
 
  5  
Reply Sun 8 Jan, 2012 01:24 am
@OmSigDAVID,
On behalf of realjohnboy, whose thread this is, may I appeal to your better sense and humbly request that you please quit feeding this JTT troll? Just concede that neither you nor anyone else is going to get the last word with JTT. And that should be fine with most people. Let's, please, end the hijacking of this othewise interesting thread.
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Reply Sun 8 Jan, 2012 02:01 am
@Lustig Andrei,
Lustig Andrei wrote:
On behalf of realjohnboy, whose thread this is, may I appeal to your better sense and humbly request that you please quit feeding this JTT troll? Just concede that neither you nor anyone else is going to get the last word with JTT. And that should be fine with most people. Let's, please, end the hijacking of this othewise interesting thread.
Yes. Your point is well taken.
I agree with each of your observations.





David
JTT
 
  -4  
Reply Sun 8 Jan, 2012 02:32 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Merry offers OmSigDave an easy out, Merry's favorite trick when he's up a stump and Dave, the drowning grammatical idiot, desperately clutches the straw Merry proffered.

It's noted, Dave, that you, like Merry, discussed not one issue of the English grammar.
JTT
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 8 Jan, 2012 03:03 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
I thought that u 'd get the point about the twisted negative, with no trouble.

OK, we 'll try it with the run on sentence "tag question" that u like so much.
Imagining similar forensic circumstances:
"Sir, u saw the defendant crush the decedent's head with a hammer, did u not?"
Witness says: "yes."
[ If I were the witness, I 'd say: "yes; I did not see that. " ]


Stop parading your ignorance of English grammar all over these pages, OmSig.

Try,

The Cambridge Grammar of the English Language

The Grammar Book: An ESL/EFL Teacher's Course

The Longman Grammar of Spoken and Written English

among other sources for discussions of how Tag devices actually work in the English language, Dave.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 8 Jan, 2012 03:12 am
@JTT,
JTT wrote:
Merry offers OmSigDave an easy out, Merry's favorite trick when he's up a stump and Dave, the drowning grammatical idiot, desperately clutches the straw Merry proffered.

It's noted, Dave, that you, like Merry, discussed not one issue of the English grammar.
U know, for these past years,
I 've considered u to be a victim of mental disturbance,
badly disorganized thinking, but now, I wonder if u r a troll!??
I had not thought of that before today.

I'm going back on topic, as I said to Andy.





David
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  2  
Reply Sun 8 Jan, 2012 05:13 am
@snood,
snood wrote:

Just watched most of the first half of tonight's NH debate (I found a live stream on an ABC affiliated site). One thing that jumps out at me so far is the way they are all letting Romney skate, and sniping at each other. Not sure what that strategy might be - any other debate I've seen both Dem and GOP, the frontrunner has had to have his/her loins girded up for an attack. Not here. Wonder why?

They're all fighting to be the "not Romney" candidate. Romney only polls at 25% in national polls. If one of them emerges as the alternative then Romney is beatable. If they focus on Romney and not each other then the 75% will continue to be split into less than 25% chunks.
snood
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Jan, 2012 06:42 am
@JPB,
JPB wrote:

snood wrote:

Just watched most of the first half of tonight's NH debate (I found a live stream on an ABC affiliated site). One thing that jumps out at me so far is the way they are all letting Romney skate, and sniping at each other. Not sure what that strategy might be - any other debate I've seen both Dem and GOP, the frontrunner has had to have his/her loins girded up for an attack. Not here. Wonder why?

They're all fighting to be the "not Romney" candidate. Romney only polls at 25% in national polls. If one of them emerges as the alternative then Romney is beatable. If they focus on Romney and not each other then the 75% will continue to be split into less than 25% chunks.


That's understandable. But I think the argument could also be made that a more effective strategy might be to simply attack Romney on the things that they think he is wrong about. That might garner a brave individual some breakaway momentum. It is a risk, and such an attack would have to be fueled partially from core principles. And lack of those two things (courage and principles) are why I think no one does it (besides the putative "best not Romney by attrition" strategy).
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Jan, 2012 07:17 am
@snood,
I read somewhere (can't find it now) that Newt's superpac is planning on doing that with anti-Romney ads. Letting the superpacs focus on Romney allows the candidates to focus on each other.

Edit -- here it is
Quote:
A pro-Gingrich “super PAC” is planning to air a blistering new attack video in South Carolina on Mitt Romney, depicting the GOP presidential front-runner as a corporate “raider” whose firm “destroyed the dreams of thousands of Americans” by buying up companies and firing its workers. More
snood
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Jan, 2012 07:26 am
@JPB,
Newt actually did try to raise that argument against the kind of "corporatism" that Romney has championed, but no one seconded him; the moderators didn't pursue it, so Romney slid by.
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Jan, 2012 07:28 am
@snood,
Newt is the last person who can get away with pointing out someone's baggage from the past!
snood
 
  3  
Reply Sun 8 Jan, 2012 07:46 am
@JPB,
Heh. Good Point.

I do want to mention that I thought that for Ron Paul to actually stand there in front of all those white republicans and ask "When was the last time you ever heard of a rich white person getting the electric chair?" was, if not the boldest, then at least one of the most strikingly contrasting statements (relative to all the other subjects and commentary going on) that I have ever seen in a debate.

I mean, c'mon - we're not really used to much Republican protest about racial inequality in the justice system, are we? Granted, Paul made the statement in an attempt to deflect questions about racially tinged writing in his old newsletter, but still I think his raising racial inequality in the American justice system and the subsequent non-response from anyone in the room was, well, striking.
0 Replies
 
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Sun 8 Jan, 2012 09:44 am
Good morning. The debate last night on ABC was, in my mind, the worst one by far. The economy, for example, came up only about half way through, after much gibberish about contraceptives. The event was dreadfully run.
The candidates just wrapped up another debate this morning on NBC's Meet The Press. I would definitely recommend investing 90 minutes to watch or listen to it.
There were things said that will have to be fact checked. Oddly that is perhaps good. At least the candidates were forced to go off script.
 

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