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The Republican Nomination For President: The Race For The Race For The White House

 
 
revelette
 
  3  
Reply Thu 3 Nov, 2011 08:32 am
Quote:
If he didn't have enough public relations problems already, Cain continued to raise questions about his views on abortion Tuesday night.

Asked about the issue on the Fox News program Special Report with Brett Baier, Cain reiterated his anti-abortion credentials, as he has several times in the past few weeks: "I believe that abortion should be illegal. I've always felt that way. I believe life begins at conception."

But explaining his comments on CNN's Piers Morgan show two weeks ago when he said it the decision was best left to the woman and her family in some instances, Cain said: " But the point I was trying to make if a situation exists where they may consider some other alternative, then how will the law prevent that? That was the point I was trying to make."

When pressed about which situations he was referring to, Cain would only say, "An extreme situation, very extreme situation."

Asked if by those extreme situations, he meant rape and incest, Cain insisted: "I do not have exceptions. No I do not. I am pro-life from conception."


source
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Nov, 2011 09:02 am
@georgeob1,
Quote:
but instead must be dancing (playing minstrel) for the favor and money of unseen calculating white oppressors.


Which is not the only explanation. They might not be able to stop themselves. The Jive is in the blood. I saw him walk out of a building in a black hat with some decorations on it, what they were I couldn't make out, and he looked great. By the side of it the others look like plonkers.

The explanation offered there is a long-winded Uncle Tom accusation and that's not the impression I get.

And I can think of another explanation which is to the credit of Mr Cain. That he is an explorer of the demographics whose trails may be followed by younger men.

The "inappropriate behaviour", lovely phrase as it is, allegations may be to his advantage. A sort of "who wants to line up with a party, or a faction, that makes a big fuss about me propositioning a few broads when I'd hadda few and a thousand miles from home?"

That ain't the authentic "black experience or collective memory" if Rider Haggard is anything to go by.

And Mr Cain is blacker than Mr Obama. I like Mr Cain. I don't think he will win mind you but I hope he does.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  3  
Reply Thu 3 Nov, 2011 09:17 am
@georgeob1,
Herman Cain wrote:
“If I were president, I would sign legislation that would protect the sanctity of life”

Which state would Cain be the "President" of?

Quote:
That shouldn't be too hard for you to understand - that is if understanding is what you really want here.

Please explain how he would sign anything to protect the sanctity of life as President if he thinks the states should decide.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Nov, 2011 09:20 am
@georgeob1,
Quote:
I find this to be a rather amazing and offensive assertion. Moreover it denies the essence of the proposition of individual equality and freedom that clearly underlies all the rest of their political aims with respect to racial issues.


I can see why you find it offensive George. And "individual equality and freedom" are just words that we have been conditioned to find reassuring as our individual equality and freedoms have been eroded; and a way of pretending that they haven't. Both expressions partake of the paradox of the heap (sorites). The heroic workmen of The Ragged Trousered Philanthropists thought they had equality and freedom. They were perfectly free to be unable to feed their children and they had the vote.

Such concepts only underlie political aims when they are useful. That there's a hypocrisy is neither here nor there. Who can afford to get excited about hypocrisy?
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Thu 3 Nov, 2011 09:22 am
@georgeob1,
Quote:


I have heard several political commentators referring to supposed "minstrel behavior" on the part of right wing black political figures.


Who? People here on this thread, or pundits? I'd be interested to see this, because I follow politics pretty closely, and I haven't seen much of what you mention here.

Cycloptichorn
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Nov, 2011 09:29 am
@Cycloptichorn,
I have very recently heard Al Sharpton express this view in great detail on his radio show and as well as two other apparently black political commentators whose names I don't know. There is nothing either new or novel in these views - they have been in circulation for a very long time, as have equvalent versions directed at other groups of people by similarly self-serving would be "leaders". Apparently, despite your self-described exhaustive political research, you have missed them.
djjd62
 
  3  
Reply Thu 3 Nov, 2011 09:31 am
@parados,
Herman Cain wrote:
“If I were president, I would sign legislation that would protect the sanctity of life”


sweet, no more war on Herman's watch
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Thu 3 Nov, 2011 09:34 am
@georgeob1,
Oh, well, Al Sharpton, there ya go. I thought you meant someone serious.

Who gives a **** what that guy says? That's like saying Jesse Jackson accused someone of racism Rolling Eyes

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Nov, 2011 09:37 am
@parados,
Quote:
How's he going to make abortion illegal if he let's women make the choice?


In the same way that driving on the left is illegal and let's women make the choice.

Quote:
If it's illegal then the government is not staying out of the question.


The government can't stay out of questions relating to surgical procedures. I think surgical procedures have to be sanctioned in some way by the government and thus a responsibility, ultimately, of the people. And a lot of people don't like the sanctioning of abortion officially because they are part of the people which has presided over nearly 50 million abortions and they are ashamed of being.

What people choose to do illegally has no such official approval but it has a flexibilty about it relating to the police and the judiciary which can answer to local conditions.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Nov, 2011 10:18 am
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

None of can know Cain's motives for sure (or those of any one else either). However, Setanta's expressed views are at least plausible.

What exactly do you mean by the inference that other, "more calculating" people may be involved?


No, we can’t read minds. But I can make a judgment on the man’s abilities based on his performance. And I don’t see someone who is doing homework like someone who is serious about becoming the POTUS. I don’t see someone who wants to be president – I simply see an opportunist and not much more. Since I don’t think he has much of a political core, I see him as someone who might very well be a willing tool for someone else’s agenda. Like the Kohl brothers, for instance.

Quote:
I have heard several political commentators referring to supposed "minstrel behavior" on the part of right wing black political figures. Evidently these commentators believe (and some even explicitly assert) that no black person can honestly think or act outside the context of what they refer to as "the black experience or collective memory". They go on to suggest that any who do express such out of context ideas, cannot possibly be thinking for themselves as individuals, but instead must be dancing (playing minstrel) for the favor and money of unseen calculating white oppressors.


I haven’t made any reference here to minstrelsy on Herman Cain’s part, although I do think an argument could be made that he tells white conservatives exactly what they want to hear (black people are lazy complainers who don’t think for themselves), and though I haven’t seen him dance, he does sing on request like a good entertainer; both things that minstrels do. What I’ve said and maintain is that he doesn’t seem to be a serious political thinker, with serious political plans and goals, so I see him as more of a means to someone else’s ends.

Quote:
I find this to be a rather amazing and offensive assertion. Moreover it denies the essence of the proposition of individual equality and freedom that clearly underlies all the rest of their political aims with respect to racial issues. The truth here is that blacks, like everyone else, are often exploited by their own group of self-serving opportunistic political leaders who would keep them in the dependent herd simply to foster the power and prominence of these self appointed "leaders". To the degree that such exploiters are successful in fostering such group think, the folks in the herd (whether black or any other group) remain duped, exploited and unfree.


I think your offense is cheaply bought, and maybe better spent on someone who is a real candidate with an actual vision for the country and coherent views, not a sold-out tool like Herman Cain.
snood
 
  2  
Reply Thu 3 Nov, 2011 10:26 am
Spendius:
Quote:
That ain't the authentic "black experience or collective memory" if Rider Haggard is anything to go by.

And Mr Cain is blacker than Mr Obama. I like Mr Cain. I don't think he will win mind you but I hope he does.


I had to google Rider Haggard. The guy who wrote King Solomon's Mines and about adventures among the Zulu tribes back in Victorian times is some kind of authority on authentic black experience? I now believe the folks who continually call you a crazy drunk, in so many words.

Cain is blacker than Obama. Yeah, "crazy drunk" is about as strenuous an answer as I can muster.
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Thu 3 Nov, 2011 10:52 am
@snood,
Quote:
And I don’t see someone who is doing homework like someone who is serious about becoming the POTUS. I don’t see someone who wants to be president – I simply see an opportunist and not much more.

In that regard, he reminds me of Sarah Palin, although he is a far more accomplished person than she is. But they both seem to have the same folksy outsider appeal, and they play to a similar demographic, and both seem more opportunistic than anything else.
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Nov, 2011 11:31 am
Ok, way back on page one I called for Perry, but now I'm pretty sure Romney has it wrapped up. Much like McCain in 2008, Romney has the quiet but powerful establishment wrapped up. The fringes are bouncing from candidate to candidate looking for someone to support but the fringe candidates just aren't going to win anyone from the establishment over and that just leaves Romney quietly chugging along while everyone else flames out. It may take a few months for the smoke to clear and an early primary or two might go to the fringes, but at this point I don't see any of the declared candidates beating Romney through fifty states.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Nov, 2011 11:40 am
@engineer,
I guess that's good news for Dems, as the activist base of the GOP absolutely cannot stand Romney.

I have no doubt that they'll eventually line up behind him, but not with any real gusto. We could easily see a repeat of the McCain candidacy.

Look for Marco Rubio to get sucked up into the VP slot - it's the best shot of winning that any of the candidates on the GOP side have at this point.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Nov, 2011 11:41 am
@engineer,
Yeah, it looks like they're gonna be stuck with Weather-Vane Willard, after furiously casting about for ANYONE else they could be more excited about.
I was thinking Perry would be their white knight for awhile, and it scared the bejeepers outta me to think of what he'd do to the country.

I think bland and wishy-washy Mitt only has a chance because of the determination to elect ABO (anyone but Obama). It can't be because of the man's core values. He ain't got any.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Nov, 2011 11:44 am
@snood,
snood wrote:

Yeah, it looks like they're gonna be stuck with Weather-Vane Willard, after furiously casting about for ANYONE else they could be more excited about.
I was thinking Perry would be their white knight for awhile, and it scared the bejeepers outta me to think of what he'd do to the country.

I think bland and wishy-washy Mitt only has a chance because of the determination to elect ABO (anyone but Obama). It can't be because of the man's core values. He ain't got any.


Problem is that the guy's history makes him a really toxic candidate at this point in time - I mean, for chrissake's, he made his fortune by smashing up American businesses and shipping jobs overseas.

And the guy has a long history of odd moments and pictures -

http://static7.businessinsider.com/image/4ea5701cecad044f62000040-610-/romney-new-york-magazine.jpg

Cycloptichorn
snood
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Nov, 2011 11:52 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Problem? You mean for the GOP, I take it. Yeah, I don't envy them what they have to run with. I like Obama's chances a lot better.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Nov, 2011 12:04 pm
@snood,
You should read the biography of Sir Henry Rider Haggard KBE snood. And you might try to read KSM as an adult rather than as a gob-smacked 14 year old.

I think he was about 21 when,

Quote:
In 1875, Haggard's father sent him to what is now South Africa, to take up an unpaid position as assistant to the secretary to Sir Henry Bulwer, Lieutenant-Governor of the Colony of Natal. In 1876 he was transferred to the staff of Sir Theophilus Shepstone, Special Commissioner for the Transvaal. It was in this role that Haggard was present in Pretoria in April 1877 for the official announcement of the British annexation of the Boer Republic of the Transvaal. Indeed, Haggard raised the Union flag and read out much of the proclamation following the loss of voice of the official originally entrusted with the duty.


It could be my telly I'll admit but Mr Cain definitely looks blacker than Mr Obama.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Nov, 2011 12:10 pm
@snood,
snood wrote:

Problem? You mean for the GOP, I take it. Yeah, I don't envy them what they have to run with. I like Obama's chances a lot better.


Me too. I mean, Mitt Romney can't even be honest about his own proposals:

Quote:
November 03, 2011 12:35 PM
Romney struggles with his own tax plan

A few months ago, soon after the “corporations are people” flap, Mitt Romney made an effort to appear moderate on tax policy. “I don’t want to waste time trying to get tax cuts for wealthy people because frankly, wealthy people are doing just fine,” the Republican presidential candidate said at the time.

Yesterday, he pushed this line again in an interview with a local TV interview in Tampa. “The policies I put forward are tax cuts for the middle class,” Romney said. “I’m proposing no tax cuts for the rich.”

I can understand why Romney would make the claim; more tax cuts for millionaires and billionaires isn’t exactly a winning issue when the vast majority of American voters want the exact opposite.

The problem, of course, is that Romney is either lying or he’s not familiar with his own proposals. Pat Garofalo said the candidate’s claim is “simply absurd on its face.”
Quote:

His tax plan consists of $6.6 trillion in tax cuts, the vast majority of which goes to the wealthy and corporations. In fact, Romney dedicates an entire section of his economic plan to discussing elimination of the estate tax, which only the very richest households in the country ever have to pay (since, right now, an estate must be worth more than $5 million to pay any estate tax at all). Currently, more than half of the estate tax is paid by the richest 0.1 percent of households.

Meanwhile, Romney’s claim that his tax plan cuts taxes for the middle-class has little basis in reality. A ThinkProgress analysis found that the vast majority of middle-class households would get no benefit from Romney’s tax plan, since it’s based on a capital gains tax cut when most middle-class families have no capital gains.


That’s true, and we can go a little further. While Romney’s pitch is focused on “tax cuts for the middle class,” Romney has also said — repeatedly — that he considers it a “problem” that so many working families are not currently eligible to pay federal income taxes. Indeed, he recently told voters, “I think it’s a real problem when you have half of Americans, almost half of Americans, that are not paying income tax.” It’s a problem Romney intends to fix by raising taxes on those least able to afford it, while cutting taxes on those at the top.


http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/political-animal/2011_11/romney_struggles_with_his_own033262.php

The guy just seems to believe that he can say whatever he wants, whenever he wants, and nobody is going to notice that he constantly contradicts himself. Obama and his crew will eat his lunch, if this is the way he plans on running the rest of his campaign.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Thu 3 Nov, 2011 12:13 pm
@snood,
And another thing snood--if you had to Google Haggard you should blame your PC literature teachers. Not me. He fascinated Henry Miller and he fascinated Mailer and all three of them fascinate me.

Along with a few others.

Haggard wrote the definitive book, for its time, on English Agriculture and was given the task of organising the settlement of demobbed soldiers after the 1918 armistice in various parts of the Empire. He was very friendly with Mr Roosevelt.
0 Replies
 
 

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