The Republican Nomination For President: The Race For The Race For The White House

Cain appears to be a bigger flip-flopper than Kerry ... if that's possible.

But, I was given to believe that wasn't possible? :/

Cain appears to be a bigger flip-flopper than Kerry ... if that's possible.

Quote:

Cain appears to be a bigger flip-flopper than Kerry ... if that's possible.

Do you know about a guy named Mitt Romney?

Perry: "Why are we funding the UN?"

maxdancona wrote:

Quote:

Cain appears to be a bigger flip-flopper than Kerry ... if that's possible.

Do you know about a guy named Mitt Romney?

I know. How in the hell can they crow about flip-floppers with that guy as their candidate? Willard is the KING of flip-floppers.

I think they all are flip floppers in part because they are trying to seem reasonable to the rest of America while pandering to the teabaggers at the same time.

LAS VEGAS—In order to give the CNN Western Republican Presidential Debate a regional flair, the network created a horseshoe logo. The candidates went one better. They turned the debate in to a Wild West bar fight. It started with a scuffle over Herman Cain’s 9-9-9 tax plan, then tipped over tables in a skirmish over Mitt Romney’s health care plan in Massachusetts. The candidates talked over each other, their voices escalating. They accused each other of lying. At one testy point, when Romney was lecturing Rick Perry about interrupting, he put his hand on the Texas governor’s shoulder. He was trying to provoke him. Watch it, Mitt—he could be packing.

But after the townsfolk came out from behind the water barrel and the children were allowed to walk the streets again, what had changed? Not much. This was the most entertaining debate of the eight so far. But the shoving and bickering—while a sign that the first contest is less than three months away—probably didn’t change the state of the race: an eventual Romney vs. Perry matchup being interrupted by a Cain interlude.

Cain was at the bottom of the first pile-on. Every candidate said his 9-9-9 plan was a bad idea. It would create a national sales tax, a value-added tax, and would hit the poor disproportionately. Cain said these were all “knee-jerk” reactions and encouraged people to read the plan on his web site.

This wasn’t an answer but a dodge. He said the criticisms were a case of mixing apples and oranges. "We are replacing the current tax code with oranges,” he responded at one point. The whole thing threatened to turn into a fruit salad. (What, no pears?) Romney quipped that because the Cain national sales tax would be added to existing state sales taxes, “I'm going to be getting a bushel basket that has apples and oranges in it because I've got to pay both taxes.””

Cain’s answers about his plan should be graded on a curve of his own ambition. Maybe if he were offering a garden-variety economic plan, he could get away with answers no sharper than a throw pillow. But he is talking about a wholesale reform of one of the most contentious and complicated portions of the federal experience at a time when government has never been more sclerotic. He’s also promising to do it in 90 days, which is faster than Ronald Reagan passed his tax breaks in 1981. (Oh, he’s also going to balance the budget in a year.)

It's great to be ambitious. But this is like turning around Godfather's Pizza by promising the pies will make themselves. Cain says he’ll be able to pull all of this off because he’ll have support of the people. But not everyone is convinced. The National Review, Newt Gingrich and The Tax Policy Center aren’t nuts, at least not always. Sure, Cain can continue to push his plan. But if he can’t do a better job explaining and selling it, he might as well just give in to the notion of a fantasy campaign and promise he’ll ride a unicorn in his inaugural parade.

None of this may diminish Cain’s support, because intensity of support is not necessarily tied to strength of his answers. He didn't do that well defending his plan at the last debate either, and yet his standing improved. He is the most likeable of all the Republican candidates according to a recent CNN poll. The Gallup poll shows that Republican voters have the most intensely positive view of him—and it’s growing. When Cain repeated that he thought the Occupy Wall Street protesters had only themselves to blame, the audience erupted. That sound bite probably did him as much good as his insufficient answers on his tax plan hurt him.

Cain also benefited from not being Romney, Rick Santorum or Perry. Those three were contentious throughout the evening, trading personal attacks and crying foul. At first the attacks on Romney were a group affair. Several took a turn kicking his health care plan. Romney defended it as ably as he has all year. Gingrich gave him a partial assist by saying it was unfair to compare it to Obama’s health care plan, then went on to say that Romney had imposed a “bureaucratic, high-cost system” on his state. Romney shot back that his plan included an individual mandate that Gingrich had once supported.

Romney does his homework. He always had a negative fact to throw back at Perry when the Texas governor went after him. Attacked on his record creating jobs in Massachusetts, he charged that many of the new jobs created in Texas went to illegal immigrants. He also attacked in real time. When Perry interrupted him, Romney suggested that if he wanted to be president he’d need to allow others to talk. “This has been a tough couple of debates for Rick,” said Romney at another point. Perry’s jaw clenched so tight that if he’d had a piece of coal in there, it’d now be a diamond.

Perry had drank his Red Bull. His first utterance was that he was not a “conservative of convenience,” which was a veiled shot at Romney. Romney "is a very slick guy,” said Perry’s communications director, Ray Sullivan. “That slickness includes the ability to change positions on a dime." This is the same point Obama strategist David Axelrod has been making lately. The message was repeated in the press releases from the Perry campaign: "Romney Is a Fraud On Immigration,” read one.

Perry took just about every available opportunity to attack Romney on everything from his economic record as governor to immigration—sometimes both at the same time. He answered one question about health care in Texas by attacking Romney’s hiring of illegal aliens, which was a bit head-snapping. "It's time for you to tell the truth,” said Perry about Romney’s use of a firm that hired illegal aliens. Going after Romney on immigration is a double win for Perry: It helps weaken Romney and helps clean up Perry’s problem with conservatives who don’t like his in-state-tuition-for-children-of-illegal-immigrants policy.

Perry wasn’t just attacking. As if taking a page out of Romney’s playbook, Perry avoided some chances to attack and used questions as opportunities to promote his record in Texas and his energy policies. He looked like a candidate who wanted the prize.

While Perry was competing for Most Improved, the award for Most Immature goes to Rick Santorum, who otherwise had some forceful moments defending the family unit, a winning position for conservatives. At one point Santorum nearly stomped his feet like a toddler in a sustained interruption of Romney. When Romney climbed out from under the fusillade, Santorum complained that Romney had run out of time—time that Santorum himself had taken up with his tantrum.

In the passion primary, the candidates’ contest to show voters that they care deeply about improving the economy, Perry flirted with being a bit over-heated. The audience booed him when he continued to return to the issue of Romney’s hiring of illegal immigrants. Romney, meanwhile, gave it right back to his accusers, showing evidence of being an actual human being. That’s one way to see it. For others it might look like Romney was a little shrill and rattled as he lectured Perry.

How can you tell an experienced candidate? In the middle of the fracas over immigration, Romney stepped back to say that the reason everyone on stage was so passionate about illegal immigration was because they were passionate about legal immigration. Nevada’s voting population is 26 percent Latino, and Romney had his eye on that. In the one slip-up of his trademark technical precision, Romney said that he fired the lawn-mowing firm using illegal aliens. “You can’t have any illegals working on our property,” he said he told them. “I’m running for office, for Pete’s sake.” This won't diminish the charge that he is more calculating than principled.

There have been eight debates. There will be 12 more. To invest each one with drama, the networks hosting them have to boast about how grave the stakes are. The hyperbole escalates to the point where it seems like the candidates might take a swing at each other. At points during Tuesday’s debate, for the first time this year, the pre-debate hyperbole actually seemed plausible.

Predictions:

Cain will get the most attention from the other candidates and is going to have to defend 9-9-9. I was going to predict someone was going to make an awkward joke about pizzas and the electric alien fence, but I see Huntsman won't be there.

Well he certainly did at the outset, but as the night wore on the pack seemed more concerned with savaging Romney. I think Cain did a pretty good job in answering his critics, but after a while he looked a little shell shocked.

Bachmann will have a good night, Santorum will come across desperate.

I was flat out wrong on Bachmann. She did not have a good night and in fact, listening to her constant high pitched call for attention from Cooper: (ANDERSON! ANDERSON!) was embarrassing. Resurgence, I suppose, is always a possibility but I don't see it as long as she only wants to repeat her campaign slogans.

Santorum, in my opinion, embarassed himself, and he certainly did appear desperate. There's not much juice left in his campaign and he needed a clear win last night. I don't know if he thought being the lead attack dog might do the trick or if he is just getting pissed off that the other guys are beating him. His worst moment was when he shouted over Romney for 30 seconds and then announced to him "You're time is up!"

Perry will shuffle along like he's sleep walking

Yes, he was a bit more testy and argumentative than he's been, but not in a way that impressed me. He seems to have gotten some good reviews for last night's performance, but I'm more than sure it's simply because the pundits just like it better when the candidates are yelling at one another. Perhaps if Perry could articulate a serious challenge instead or relying on old news about illegal lawn workers, I could take him more seriously.

Once again he struggled finding the right words for what he wanted to say, and he just came across as stupid. I guess he'll hang around for a time because there are still a lot of people whoare not sold on Romney, but I shudder to think of what he'll be like in a debate with Obama.

and Romney will come out looking like he's the frontrunner no matter what the polls are saying.

And he did. Some pundits seem to think he came across shrill and "mean" in his responses to the barrage of attacks he faced, but I didn't really see much of that. He probably should practice retorts that don't involve as much outshouting his opponent, but it's not like Perry or Santorum were hitting him with calm and particularly sharp blow. No reason to change my mind about him becoming the nominee

Hopefully Newt and Ron Paul will add laughs (one intentionally and the other not so much)

Crazy Ron didn't show up last night, but neither did Cranky Ron. He seemed (for him) subdued, and provided no laughs.

Newt had no show stoppers either, but with each debate I more and more wish that Gingrich could form a tag-team with the ultimate nominee, and tap into the ring when the debates with Obama roll around. I think Newt would be happy debating for 10 hours straight if he were in the limelight and would get better with each hour.

The CNN moderators will, again, be annoying.

I have to say I was wrong here as well. Cooper was probably the least intrusive of moderators thus far and simply saw his job as keeping the ball rolling. Newt had to make his obligatory knock on the moderator wanting to keep everyone fighting, and he was right, but with or without Cooper they would have been fighting and they certainly shouldn't rely on a CNN moderator to keep them from looking like kids in a pissing contest.

I know. How in the hell can they crow about flip-floppers with that guy as their candidate? Willard is the KING of flip-floppers.