68
   

The Republican Nomination For President: The Race For The Race For The White House

 
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Oct, 2011 05:59 pm
@realjohnboy,
I agree the persistent unwillingness of Republicans to collect around Romney is a bit unusual and enough to justify the wide ranging speculation you reported.

However, there are several major primary events scheduled in a few months and, in my view, the great likelihood is that Romney will gain significant strength as they progress. Given the fairly stark polarity of the public debate over core issues now, I believe there are and will continue to be powerful forces motivating Republicans to unite as the real election draws near. Certainly the actions and statements Obama is making now to "mobilize his base" (as the cant term goes) is more than enough to unite Rerpublicans and many independents in wanting to defeat him.

It is still an interesting year with lots of uncertainty on both sides.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Oct, 2011 07:28 pm
@Rockhead,
I "allow" birther speakers?

I don't "want" Palin to be "my leader?"

You're not making sense.
0 Replies
 
revelette
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Oct, 2011 08:02 am
Quote:
Dear Republican Presidential candidates. Herman Cain will see your border fence and raise you one.

On a campaign tour through Tennessee, Cain elaborated on what will be a central portion of his immigration policy: a big electric fence. Cain’s fence, he announced on Saturday, would be electrified and run the entire course of the US-Mexican border with voltage high enough to kill anyone trying to enter illegally.

Cain’s ideal fence would be 20 feet high with barbed wire on the top with a sign saying “It will kill you–Warning.” In a campaign stop in Tennessee, Cain clarified that the sign would be written in both English and Spanish.

In case the big electric fence wasn’t enough, Cain would add some extra (unspecified) “technology” to cut down on illegal immigration. He also suggested adding American troops armed with live ammunition to patrol the border, indicating maybe that “technology” he’s referring to is something akin to drone crafts armed with bombs.


source




H2O MAN
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 18 Oct, 2011 08:19 am



This guy is a one term - failed experiment.


http://media.zenfs.com/en/blogs/theticket/101811obama-blog.jpg

izzythepush
 
  3  
Reply Tue 18 Oct, 2011 08:23 am
@H2O MAN,
H2O MAN wrote:

This guy is a one term - failed experiment.


Is that what the geneticist said when you emerged from your cocoon?
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Oct, 2011 08:59 am
@revelette,
revelette wrote:

Quote:
Dear Republican Presidential candidates. Herman Cain will see your border fence and raise you one.

On a campaign tour through Tennessee, Cain elaborated on what will be a central portion of his immigration policy: a big electric fence. Cain’s fence, he announced on Saturday, would be electrified and run the entire course of the US-Mexican border with voltage high enough to kill anyone trying to enter illegally.

Cain’s ideal fence would be 20 feet high with barbed wire on the top with a sign saying “It will kill you–Warning.” In a campaign stop in Tennessee, Cain clarified that the sign would be written in both English and Spanish.

In case the big electric fence wasn’t enough, Cain would add some extra (unspecified) “technology” to cut down on illegal immigration. He also suggested adding American troops armed with live ammunition to patrol the border, indicating maybe that “technology” he’s referring to is something akin to drone crafts armed with bombs.

What a putz.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Tue 18 Oct, 2011 09:04 am
Cain clarified that the sign would be written in both English and Spanish

He will be offending teapartiers by making signs in Spanish on American soil. The illegals need to learn English before approaching the wall.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Tue 18 Oct, 2011 09:23 am
@georgeob1,
What I find most intriguing is the fact that nobody is talking about JOBS. The conservatives have been blaming Obama for not addressing this topic...and blame him for the low job creation.

What exactly is the conservative´s programs to create jobs?
georgeob1
 
  0  
Reply Tue 18 Oct, 2011 09:41 am
@cicerone imposter,
Free enterprise; less stupid regulation; a coherent energy policy that involves greater production from domestic sources thereby significantly reducing our adverse balance of trade & payments; less inept picking of economic winners and losers by politically influenced bureaucrats; fewer disincentives for people to work and engage in productive economic activity.

Nothing new here. Just the policies that made us the top economic power in the world in the first place.
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Oct, 2011 10:33 am
@edgarblythe,
Quote:
Herman Cain's Electric Border Fence Confusion Toonified
By James King Tue., Oct. 18 2011 at 8:30 AM

Yesterday, we watched as GOP presidential candidate Herman Cain told reporters that comments he made about his plan to install an electrified fence on the U.S./Mexico border capable of killing immigrants trying to come into the country illegally was just a joke.

Then we watched him say he might seriously be considering installing an electrified fence on the U.S./Mexico border capable of killing immigrants trying to come into the country illegally.

Then we watched him say he wasn't sure if he was joking about the fence or not, he just didn't want to offend anybody.

...

The confusion has since been captured on Youtube in the form of a cartoon ...



Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Oct, 2011 11:10 am
@georgeob1,
Too bad most economists disagree that your/the GOP's plan would have any beneficial effects at all.

Links to independent studies of the plans at the link below -

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/post/on-gop-jobs-plan-an-epic-media-fail/2011/10/18/gIQAZT3PuL_blog.html

Quote:
Posted at 10:48 AM ET, 10/18/2011
On GOP jobs plan, an epic media fail
By Greg Sargent

Look, I know this sounds terribly earnest. And I know I’m repeating myself. But still: Many major news organizations and neutral commentators are simply not engaging on one of the central questions at the heart of our politics right now — one whose answer contains potentially far-reaching consequences for the future of the country.

The question is this: In the view of experts, are both parties making a serious and legitimate contribution to the debate over what to do about a severe national crisis that’s causing suffering among millions and millions of Americans? Or is only one party making a real contribution to that debate?

Obama and the Senate GOP have both introduced jobs plans. In reporting on the Senate plan, many news organizations described it as a “GOP jobs plan.” And that’s fine — Rand Paul said it would create five million of them. But few if any of the same news orgs that amplified the GOP offering of a jobs plan are making any serious effort to determine whether independent experts think there’s anything to it. And independent experts don’t think there’s anything to it — they think the GOP jobs plan would not create any jobs in the near term, and could even hurt the economy. By contrast, they do think the Obama plan would create jobs and lead to growth.

Why aren’t these facts in every single news story about the ongoing jobs debate? Why aren’t they being broadcast far and wide?

I’m trying to think of the reasons for this. Economists are not infallable — they very well may be wrong. But still: News consumers are entitled to expert opinion in navigating an intensely partisan debate that is expected to continue for months and be central to the 2012 campaign.

Another possible reason: Perhaps some media figures worry that since Obama asked news orgs to solicit the views of independent experts, they would look like they are doing Obama’s “homework” by soliciting those views. But that’s not a good enough reason. The core question should be: Do readers and viewers need this info in order to be better informed? If the answer to that question is Yes, then it doesn’t matter a whit what Obama said.

Another possible reason: The GOP jobs plan has no chance of ever becoming law. But that’s also true of Obama’s jobs plan. And the evaluation by economists of it nonetheless constituted very useful information for news consumers. The policies themselves, and the clash of visions they represent, will continue to be debated — and perhaps voted on — for months. And even if the GOP plan won’t ever happen, the broader question of whether experts think Republicans are making a genuine effort to offer real solutions to our national crisis is absolutely central to understanding what’s happening in our politics right now.

Still another possible reason: Reporters and editors don’t take the GOP jobs plan seriously enough to have it evaluated by independent experts. But if this is the case, isn’t this something readers and viewers should know about? News consumers who read or view stories about the GOP jobs plan without being told this vital information risk coming away thinking that both sides are making an equally serious contribution to the debate. If reporters and editors don’t believe this, isn’t that pertinent info for their customers?

There have been some exceptions. Jackie Calmes of the New York Times has done good work — see here and here — trying to inform readers on these matters. But the fact that she’s a glaring exception seems like a pretty serious problem.


Cycloptichorn
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Oct, 2011 01:00 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
I read the article you linked. The author says he consulted with ONE (unamed) economist who said the "Republican plan "wouldn't produce any short term job growth". That's hardly the expressed opinion of "most economists".

A part of the problem here is that you are not either clear or specific about just what is the problem you believe needs correction here. If one listens to the President it is unemployment and the lack of adequate social welfare programs. Most Republicans say it is an unusually slow and limp recovery from a cyclic recession, combined with a looming crisis in government financial obligations - debt, the present value of future social security, Medicare, Medicaid, pension and various loan guarantee obligations, plus similar obligations held by state and local governments. The aggregate total is well over 100% of our GDP and still growing fast. This takes an even more ominous aspect in the face of the still growing European crisis. The essential point here is we have to find solutions that address both elements of this problem.

Obama's tax hikes for "the rich" won't yield nearly enough to deal with the debt crisis we face. Some level of entitlement reform is indispensible. If that is done, I would support some tax increases. Unfortunately the administration denies that necessity and campaigns on the dangerous illusion that we can avoid a crisis merely by "harvesting the bourgeois" - to use the Leninist phrase for it. Temporary government jobs aren't a lasting solution to an economic crisis - as the last trillion dolllar giveaway so amply demonstrated.

Energy is a fundamental element in almost all aspects of our economy, particularly the manufacturing sector that once produced so many high-paying jobs for less educated people. Our current energy policy (if you can call it that) is positively destructive to both aspects of the problem - job creation and public debt. Stupid limits on domestic production of all fuels significantly worsens our balance of trade; exports the jobs involved in production overseas; and leaves the profits in the handfs of foreign governments. Even more stupid subsidies for unrealistic "renewable" sources breeds insider deals and coruption in goverrnmernt, losses for ther public treasury, and.... no energy.

The Sarbanes Oxley Bill and subsequent legislation has made it far more costly and risky to launch a publicly traded companies. This inhibits capital formation and investment in jobs-creating enterprises of all kinds. These are examples of regulations that need to be revisited, simplified and made more cost-effective.

Human beings everywhere, in government or in corporations are subject to error and the common elements of human venality. As a result regulation itself is subject to the same potential for error and corruption as the things being regulated. We have seen lots of excamples of this fgact lately. This doesn't mean we should have no rergulation any more than it means we shouldn't have any businesses being regulated. But it does mean we should be judicious and cautious in dealing with both.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Oct, 2011 01:14 pm
@georgeob1,
Quote:

I read the article you linked. The author says he consulted with ONE (unamed) economist who said the "Republican plan "wouldn't produce any short term job growth". That's hardly the expressed opinion of "most economists".


The economist in the article you supposedly read was clearly identified as Gus Faucher, the director of macroeconomics at Moody’s Analytics. In fact, they not only named him once, but wrote his name several times in the article. Which makes me wonder if you actually did read the article I linked or not.

Cycloptichorn
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Oct, 2011 01:20 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cy,
I just read the article you linked to.
I read it 3 times to make sure, and NOWHERE in that article does it mention the name Gus Faucher.
There are no economists mentioned in the article you linked to at all.

However, I did NOT read theother articles that were linked to the one you posted, so maybe the name Gus Faucher is in one of those companion articles.

But George is correct, there are no experts named in the article you linked.
georgeob1
 
  0  
Reply Tue 18 Oct, 2011 01:22 pm
@mysteryman,
In addition the esteemed Gus doesn't speak for "most economists" as Cyclo claimed.

The Washington Post article he linked was kind of a yawn, devoid of real information, so it is no surprise that he didn't read it carefully either.

Meanwhile, now that we've got by the nit he used to avoid answering, I'll await Cyclo's response to my main points.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Oct, 2011 01:23 pm
@mysteryman,
mysteryman wrote:

Cy,
I just read the article you linked to.
I read it 3 times to make sure, and NOWHERE in that article does it mention the name Gus Faucher.
There are no economists mentioned in the article you linked to at all.

However, I did NOT read theother articles that were linked to the one you posted, so maybe the name Gus Faucher is in one of those companion articles.

But George is correct, there are no experts named in the article you linked.


You didn't read my original post very well then. I wrote:

Quote:
Links to independent studies of the plans at the link below -


That makes it very clear where to go to get that info.

C'mon, guys, try and keep up here.

Cycloptichorn
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Tue 18 Oct, 2011 01:25 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

In addition the esteemed Gus doesn't speak for "most economists" as Cyclo claimed.


Mmm hmm. That's just one example from several I could name, but I doubt you would take Krugman or Barry Ritholz seriously - they have both been far too correct over the last several years for you to possibly agree with them.

Why don't you find a counter-example, a serious economist who claims the GOP plan will work to create jobs at all? From what I can see, it's the same plan as every plan they and you put forward: cut taxes, cut regulations, increase oil drilling and coal burning, and everything will be magic roses from there on out! Too bad this didn't turn out to be the case when, yaknow, we actually tried those things last decade.

Still no admission from you that you were perfectly incorrect re: the CRA and mortgage lenders. When are you going to man up and admit that you were talking out your ass, George?

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Oct, 2011 01:35 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
I admitted that I didnt read the links in the article you posted.
HOWEVER, the article you posted did NOT mention any economists names at all.
That is what I am responding to.
You claimed it did, but it does not.
There may be people mentioned by name in the companion articles, but not in the original article.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Oct, 2011 01:36 pm
@mysteryman,
And you couldn't figure out how to find the name yourself??? C'mon. I don't mind arguing over different ideas about how things should be done, or other policy- or event-related topics, but this is asinine.

Cycloptichorn
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Oct, 2011 01:51 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Maybe if you just refrained from attempting to add weight to your own opinions with false statements like "most economists disagree..." people wouldn't feel compelled to demand proof from you.
 

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