135
   

The Future President, Donald Trump

 
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Tue 25 Aug, 2015 02:12 pm
@bobsal u1553115,
The more people who think Trump is the best the better for Trump. One man one vote is how it works, in case you are unaware. Trump does not get to control who votes for him, so I am not going to blame Trump for who votes for him. You should not either.
0 Replies
 
billrandall
 
  0  
Tue 25 Aug, 2015 02:21 pm
@Reyn,
so that's how you'd choose our leader? By his HAIR? Typical twit answer. We need a double fence on our border with Mexico, with rifle towers every 1/4 mile, and the only place the riflemen can fire is between the fences. this has worked fine for our prisons for a century now. All you need is 6 coils of razor wire per fence. 3 are staked down, 2 more are wires atop the 3, 1 more atop the 2. Presto, a double fence that we can build in a month. We built the alaska highway, which is longer than our border with Mexico, without anti-freeze, in the middle of WW2. yes, we'd need 25,000 riflemen, but they can be National Guardsmen. Plenty of militia men will volunteer to devote a week or so to manning said towers, under miliatary guidance. It CAN be done and we can horsewhip any illegals that dont leave, too. they aiint citizens, and have no rights at all. YOU have no rights in any foreign country, if you go there uninvited, so why should we give any to wetbacks here, hmm?

5 BILLION people want to live here. If you allow in the Latinos and exclude all the africans and asians who want to come, you're a RACIST (like nearly all Latinos ARE). "Just" the 1 billion+ latinos would convert the US into a sewer. We'd have 20% of what we have now, once what we have was divided by that many invaders.'
parados
 
  3  
Tue 25 Aug, 2015 02:58 pm
@billrandall,
Nice answer billrandall. How do you propose to pay for all that fence, guard towers and men to man them?

Minimum cost will be what? $100 million? $1 billion? $5 billion? $50 billion?
Razor wire is under $1 a foot on ebay. You are proposing 12 feet per feet of border with 2 fences. 1,954 miles of fence. That is only $120 million just for the razor wire. Assume labor equals the razor wire puts us at $250 million. Now you want to add 25,000 towers at lets say a simple $20,000 per. That's another $500 million. (Those towers will require amenities to meet federal and state standards for work place health and safety so $20,000 might be too low.) That puts at 3/4 of a billion minimum and probably 5 times that by the time Halliburton bids on it.

25,000 rifleman for 24 hours per day. That is a total of 600,000 man hours per day assuming we can get by with just one person. Let's assume a simple $10 an hour. Even if you bring in National Guard you still have to pay them for the hours they work. That means the fence is costing $6 million a day minimum. That only works out to $2.2 billion per year.

But of course you would have to have 2 guards per tower and pay more like $20 an hour which puts us at over $8 billion per year just for the labor. The current budget for ICE is only $5.4 billion.

Of course we still haven't paid for ammunition, water, lights or other equipment for night vision.

Where you getting the $50 billion dollars from to pay for all this billrandall?
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Tue 25 Aug, 2015 03:02 pm
@snood,
Quote:
Do you have as much influence over public opinion as Donald Trump does?
That's the difference between him doing something and you doing it. I feel like I'm talking to a cement bulkhead.


People do not gain or lose rights based upon their position in society, that is what equality is about. Trump being a person that people listen to does not make him responsible for what those other people do any more than I am responsible for what other people do, ever. Our courts got it wrong when they deciding that inciting criminal acts is a crime. So trump should be able to say anything he wants and it should not be a crime. That being the case then the question is whether Trump speech is immoral, and if so what is the remedy. I dont think it is immoral because making language functional again by using it honestly is critical to the survival of the collective, I argue that Trump speech is a public service, a good. You are free as usual to go the other way in your evaluation. If you do you can argue that Trump is bad, you can argue that people should not support him, and you can choose to not vote for him.

You have made your argument, you have exhausted the remedy available to you till/unless you have the opportunity to not vote for him.

We are at an impasse. The only thing left for you to do is to continue to make your argument to others, they may or may not be convinced to agree with you. But you have to respect that I and Trump have used our freedom to not agree with you, to not follow your will.

Trump, you and I are all equals, and until/unless you understand that all of your arguments will suffer. We do have elites in this country, and they do run this country, but only because the collective allows it. I argue that we should stop. We need to start reminding ourselves that we are equals to the elite, that they have no more right to tell us what to do than we have to tell them what to do. And they are often wrong. And they have done a poor job of running things. Letting the elite have special rights is a choice not supported by law because a society based on equality cant have such law.

I advocate removing from the elite special rights, which also removes any special responsibilities. I have already done this personally. You will not get anywhere with me with your claims that Trump does not enjoy the same rights and obligations as I do.
0 Replies
 
djjd62
 
  1  
Tue 25 Aug, 2015 03:04 pm
@snood,
the real problem with trumps language, if folks are going to be honest, is that other folks are agreeing with him and praising him for it, many see this as a bad thing, i see it as the best thing, if more politicians and public figures were as honest, or stupid, take your pick, we'd certainly have a better idea of were everyone stood

i generally assume that if a politician is speaking he's lying, i don't necessarily get that idea about trump, we've seen secret tapes where politicians real thoughts are revealed, mr. no filter lays it all out on the evening news
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Tue 25 Aug, 2015 03:10 pm
@djjd62,
Quote:
the real problem with trumps language, if folks are going to be honest, is that other folks are agreeing with him and praising him for it

Then leave trump out of it, take up your objection with the people who are agreeing with him. THe way this is supposed to work is that you try to make a better argument, and if you are successful people will do things your way, not the trump way. Getting pissed at trump, telling him what to do and not do, is unjust and it is supreme laziness.

DO THE ******* WORK!
djjd62
 
  1  
Tue 25 Aug, 2015 03:17 pm
@hawkeye10,
where in this discussion have i said i was mad at trump

on language, you and i are closer than you think, i have no fear of words

now that being said, if i was an american i wouldn't be voting for trump, in fact i don't think i could ever actually vote for a president, governor and congressman sure, i generally only vote based on local representation no matter the leader, this year i'm voting NDP locally
RABEL222
 
  4  
Tue 25 Aug, 2015 03:53 pm
@snood,
I wouldent worry too much about Trump. The same 20% who swore that Obama was born in Kenya are swearing Trump will be the next president.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Tue 25 Aug, 2015 03:56 pm
@RABEL222,
RABEL222 wrote:

I wouldent worry too much about Trump. The same 20% who swore that Obama was born in Kenya are swearing Trump will be the next president.


Where is the study that back up this assertion of fact?
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Tue 25 Aug, 2015 04:01 pm
@djjd62,
Quote:
where in this discussion have i said i was mad at trump


Good point, except I recall you saying at some point something to the effect that all politicians should be ground into sausage so you can see where my jumping the gun came from....
0 Replies
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Tue 25 Aug, 2015 05:26 pm
@billrandall,
Race bating Stormfront/KKK/NeoNazi bullshit.
0 Replies
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Tue 25 Aug, 2015 05:27 pm
@djjd62,
Just because he isn't lying doesn't mean he's telling the truth.
0 Replies
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  3  
Tue 25 Aug, 2015 05:29 pm
@RABEL222,
Exactly right, he's attracted the 20% of the stupid among us. He's got exactly every single one of them and then thats all of them.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Tue 25 Aug, 2015 05:30 pm
The War between Trump and Fox News is back on. Roger Ailes might want to keep in the back of his mind that "journalists" are some of the least respected people in America.
0 Replies
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Tue 25 Aug, 2015 05:31 pm
The Fearful and the Frustrated: Donald Trump’s nationalist coalition takes shape—for now.
Long article; excellent read.

The Fearful and the Frustrated: Donald Trump’s nationalist coalition takes shape—for now.

The Political Scene August 31, 2015 Issue
By Evan Osnos

....
What accounts for Donald Trump’s political moment? How did a real campaign emerge from a proposition so ludicrous that an episode of “The Simpsons” once used a Trump Presidency as the conceit for a dystopian future? The candidate himself is an unrewarding source of answers. Plumbing Trump’s psyche is as productive as asking American Pharoah, the winner of the Triple Crown, why he runs. The point is what happens when he does.
....

When Trump leaped to the head of the Republican field, he delivered the appearance of legitimacy to a moral vision once confined to the fevered fringe, elevating fantasies from the message boards and campgrounds to the center stage of American life. In doing so, he pulled America into a current that is coursing through other Western democracies—Britain, France, Spain, Greece, Scandinavia—where xenophobic, nationalist parties have emerged since the 2008 economic crisis to besiege middle-ground politicians. In country after country, voters beset by inequality and scarcity have reached past the sober promises of the center-left and the center-right to the spectre of a transcendent solution, no matter how cruel. “The more complicated the problem, the simpler the demands become,” Samuel Popkin, a political scientist at the University of California in San Diego, told me. “When people get frustrated and irritated, they want to cut the Gordian knot.”

Trump has succeeded in unleashing an old gene in American politics—the crude tribalism that Richard Hofstadter named “the paranoid style”—and, over the summer, it replicated like a runaway mutation. Whenever Americans have confronted the reshuffling of status and influence—the Great Migration, the end of Jim Crow, the end of a white majority—we succumb to the anti-democratic politics of absolutism, of a “conflict between absolute good and absolute evil,” in which, Hofstadter wrote, “the quality needed is not a willingness to compromise but the will to fight things out to a finish. Nothing but complete victory will do.” Trump was born to the part. “I’ll do nearly anything within legal bounds to win,” he wrote, in “The Art of the Deal.” “Sometimes, part of making a deal is denigrating your competition.” Trump, who long ago mastered the behavioral nudges that could herd the public into his casinos and onto his golf courses, looked so playful when he gave out Lindsey Graham’s cell-phone number that it was easy to miss just how malicious a gesture it truly was. It expressed the knowledge that, with a single utterance, he could subject an enemy to that most savage weapon of all: us.

Trump’s candidacy has already left a durable mark, expanding the discourse of hate such that, in the midst of his feuds and provocations, we barely even registered that Senator Ted Cruz had called the sitting President “the world’s leading financier of radical Islamic terrorism,” or that Senator Marco Rubio had redoubled his opposition to abortion in cases of rape, incest, or a mortal threat to the mother. Trump has bequeathed a concoction of celebrity, wealth, and alienation that is more potent than any we’ve seen before. If, as the Republican establishment hopes, the stargazers eventually defect, Trump will be left with the hardest core—the portion of the electorate that is drifting deeper into unreality, with no reconciliation in sight.
0 Replies
 
jcboy
 
  3  
Tue 25 Aug, 2015 05:53 pm
That line was officially crossed when the GOP frontrunner tacitly endorsed two thuggish supporters who beat an apparently homeless Hispanic man in Boston. They did that because they, like their Trump hero, want to make America great again. A reporter asked Trump about it and Trump first said he had not heard of the incident. After a brief pause, he added,

"I will say, the people that are following me are very passionate. They love this country. They want this country to be great again. But they are very passionate, I will say that."

TEA PARTY AND THE RIGHT
5 Horrific Statements From the Right-Wing This Week: The Trump Joke Is Officially Over


Quote:
It just gets worse and worse. You might have thought enslavement and mass murdering people would be off the table as policy prescriptions for dealing with immigration, but then you haven’t being paying attention to the GOP primary race lately.

Donald Trump’s idea to build a wall between the U.S. and Mexico once seemed like the worst idea imaginable. Now, it falls almost quaintly in the middle of the pack of horrific GOP ideas. Right-wing radio host Jan Mickelson, close pal to Ted Cruz et al. suggested enslavement of the undocumented this week. The ever reasonable Dr. Ben Carson thought, hey, why not drone the border?


http://www.alternet.org/files/styles/story_image/public/story_images/tantaros.png
0 Replies
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Tue 25 Aug, 2015 06:14 pm
'Go Back to Univision!': Trump Has Jorge Ramos Thrown Out of Iowa Press Conference
Source: Mediaite

Donald Trump’s press conference in Dubuque, Iowa went off the rails fast on Tuesday night when Univision anchor Jorge Ramos started questioning the candidate even though he had not been specifically called on by him.

“Excuse me, sit down, you weren’t called. Sit down!” Trump shouted at Ramos as he protested, “I have the right to ask a question.”

“No you don’t, go back to Univision,” Trump replied, attempting to call on another reporter in the room. At that point, security physically removed Ramos from the room.

... Ramos later returned to the press conference room where he was able to confront Trump directly.


Read more: http://www.mediaite.com/tv/go-back-to-univision-trump-has-jorge-ramos-thrown-out-of-iowa-press-conference/


La campaña de Trump expulsa a Jorge Ramos de rueda de prensa

Miembros de seguridad de la campaña de Donald Trump expulsaron momentáneamente al presentador de Univision Jorge Ramos de una rueda de prensa en Dubuque, Iowa.

Trump se negó a responder una pregunta de Ramos al comienzo de la rueda de prensa, y el candidato ordenó a un guardaespaldas que llevara a Ramos fuera de la sala.

"Vuelve a Univision", le dijo Trump a Ramos mientras éste le preguntaba sobre su plan de deportar masivamente a millones de indocumentados.

"Tengo del derecho a hacer una pregunta", se defendió Ramos mientras el guardaespaldas lo echaba.

Read more: http://noticias.univision.com/article/2442722/2015-08-25/estados-unidos/destino-2016/noticias-elecciones/la-campana-de-trump-expulsa-a-jorge-ramos-de-rueda-de-prensa
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Tue 25 Aug, 2015 06:37 pm
@bobsal u1553115,
Quote:
Ramos then protested, “I have the right to ask a question.” Trump answered, “No you don’t. You haven’t been called.” Ramos again said that he has the right to ask a question, to which Trump retorted, “Go back to Univision.”

Ramos continued to press on, at one point stating “You cannot deport 11 million people” as Trump tried to take other questions.

Eventually, a man came over and escorted Ramos out of the event as Ramos continued to try to ask his question and Trump told him to sit down because he hadn’t been called on. As Ramos was being removed from the question he said, “Don’t touch me, sir. You cannot touch me.”

Later, in response to other questions, Trump said he “would love to” have Ramos come back to the presser. He added that Ramos was “out of order” and that he would have taken Ramos’ question if he hadn’t interrupted.

Less than 20 minutes later, Ramos returned and was able to ask Trump multiple questions.

http://www.breitbart.com/video/2015/08/25/watch-jorge-ramos-escorted-out-of-trumps-iowa-presser/

Sounds super. Be civilized or get the **** out. I want my president to be in charge of his own press conference, to not do a Bernie Sanders. I like Trump more today than I did yesterday.





VOTE TRUMP

hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Tue 25 Aug, 2015 06:42 pm
Quote:
DONALD TRUMP: Well, a lot of people think -- no, no, excuse me. a lot of people, no, no, but a lot of people think that's not right, that an act of congress can do it. but it's possibly going to have to be tested in courts. but

A lot of people think that if you come and you're on the other side of the border -- I'm not talking about Mexicans. Somebody on the other side of the border. A woman is getting ready to have a baby, she crosses the border for one day, has the baby, all of a sudden for the next 80 years, hopefully longer, but for the next 80 years we have to take care of the people.

Excuse me, some of the greatest legal scholars -- and I know some of the television scholars agree with you, but some of the great legal scholars agree that that's not true. That if you come across -- excuse me, just one second.

(RAMOS INTERRUPTION)

No, I am answering. If you come across for one day and you have a baby, now the baby is going to be an American citizen. There are great -- excuse me. There are great legal scholars, the top, that say that's absolutely wrong. It's going to be tested. Okay?

Ramos asked Trump how he would erect a 1900-mile long border

TRUMP: Very easy. I'm a builder. That's easy. I build buildings that are 94 --

(RAMOS INTERRUPTION)

TRUMP: Can I tell you what's more complicated? What's more complicated is building a building that's 95 stories tall.

Trump battles Ramos on deportation

TRUMP: The one thing we're going to start with immediately are the gangs, and the real bad up ones. And you do agree there are some bad ones. Do you agree or do you think everyone is just perfect? No. I asked you a question. Do you agree with that? We have tremendous crime, we have tremendous problems -- I can't deal with this.

Listen, we have tremendous crime, we have tremendously, we have some very bad ones and I you would agree with that, right? There's a lot of bad ones. Real bad ones. Excuse me. They looked at some of the gangs in Baltimore, they looked at some of the gangs in Chicago, they looked even in Ferguson. They got some rough, illegal immigrants in those gangs.

They're getting out. You mind if i send them out? Now, if they come from Mexico, do you mind if I send them back to Mexico. No, no, do you mind if I send them back to Mexico? Okay. Those people are out. They'll be out so fast your head will spin.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2015/08/25/trump_vs_jorge_ramos_on_birthright_citizenship_wall_building_a_building_thats_95_stories_tall_more_difficult.html

Lets be clear here, they guy who gets to ask three questions and will not let Trump answer without interruptions is not a victim. If the victim/abuser dynamic happened here Trump was the victim.
0 Replies
 
jcboy
 
  5  
Tue 25 Aug, 2015 06:50 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:


VOTE TRUMP



You’ve stooped to a new low, if that’s even possible. The Trump has a new birdbrain by his side.

Cool

 http://oi57.tinypic.com/33uwzz8.jpg
0 Replies
 
 

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