@IRFRANK,
IRFRANK wrote:
Quote:I don't support Tim Mcveigh or what he done, but the fact is that Waako didn't have to go down that way, and Janet Reno saying I take full responsibility knowing full well no one was going to throw her ass in prison for murder is obscene...If people are minding their own business I don't care how many guns they own... 90% of the time they are nutjobs, and sure, because the government does not tell the truth, and keeps a lot of secrets it does not have to it begs for the rumour mill to turn out garbage... If people are denied the truth they often guess the truth and act on the truth they guess... What choice do they have... They can see their government is not acting in their best interest or in their interest at all... So they are making a stand... By the time anyone reaches for their gun it is already too late because those people with the power will nuke us all before giving it up...
Fido, you have made some very insightful and intelligent posts here, this isn't one of them. Waco was indeed a very sad day in American History. There is no doubt the government over reacted and it is sad so many people died. But, they (law enforcement) had a legitimate reason for being there. There is no way that in any lawful society that you can justify citizens being able to keep an armed camp and refuse entry to law enforcement with a valid warrant. David Koresh was a nutjob and he alone is responsible for what happened there.
You decide to make your stand - accept the consequences.
" If people are denied the truth they often guess the truth and act on the truth they guess... What choice do they have..."
This is a ridiculous statement. The truth is what it is, not what you want to believe or fabricate in the absence of information. They have the choice or rationality.
What ws done by our government was what is done, and has been done in foreign relations for ever.... We attack the people of a foreign country because we do not like their leader, and to the limit of our ability we make the people of a defeated country pay us for the war... This was our intent in Iraq, and it was a reason peace did not follow the first world war....
When it was found that Koresh was holed up with a crew of women and children we, meaning the government, should have relaxed the paremeter... Not all at once, but stationed people on all the roads and in the surrounding towns and territory... Sooner or later people would show up or outside to have the necessities of life, and they could be smatched... When the government is afraid of losing face, which is a foreign notion to this hemisphere, then it is bound to act in ways that are destructive of its peoples rights and its own best interest... They could not win there in their minds without an attack when it was the only way they could lose... Koresh was in a box, and whether he called it freedom or not is irrelivent... The government in its fear of the people let itself be manipulated when it was already the master of events... Any one of a thousand right wing religious groups in this country are absolutely correct to take a lesson from the government and give it no tangible support because it is the enemy... It is the enemy of all of us, but only the right wing fringe thinks of them so...
The rumour mill is set in motion when people are denied the truth, and their worst fears about their government are realized... It is the government itself that has done this... That slaughter can be laid at the feet of Reno and Clinton who had the choice of attack or backing off... Their investment of time and money without results put them in the position of seeming ridiculous and powerless when they were not powerless by any means.... It was Koresh who was afraid and had reason to be afraid, but it was the government which acted out of fear so that the giant was driven into activity by a fly...
There were other alternatives, but the investment of manpower demanded results... Well they got their godamned results and a lot of people in Kansas paid for it...And it is just the beignning, and that is not where I want revolution to begin, but that is where it is beginning..
The truth IS always what it is, but our notions of truth are always what we fabricate out of our ignorance of the true facts... More than this; but upon our understanding of the facts is how people reason, and for this reason our notion of the facts is always muddied up by the global warming opponants, and the pro Israel people... People cannot reason nor act out of uncertainty, but they must act regardless and they do, and some times with violence..
