georgeob1 wrote: okie wrote:
I don't think I've gone wrong there, and I've stated those reasons many times, but oh well, we will just have to agree to disagree.
Tell you what. Why don't you read up on the Post WWII labor Governments of the United Kingdom ? Then you can test some key facts relative to your theories.
Here' a brief sketch;
They nationalized the country's railroads, coal mines, electric utilities, steelmakers, aviation industry, a good deal of the automobile industry and all health care services. In addition they established nearly confiscatory taxes on wealth and a highly progressive tax system with marginal rates as high as 85%. In short their actual actions and stated policies were far more socialistic than anything Hitler did or said.
Despite this British democracy and individual freedom remained intact.
They were more socialistic than Nazi Germany, but at the same time a vibrant and stable democracy.
Explain that and I'll listen to you.
I will be happy to explain it, but I think we also need to clarify some points in this discussion. One of those points is - do you consider democratic socialist countries, such as the UK or a number of other European styled socialist countries, do you consider them to be leftist or at least more left than the United States? Consistent with that question, would you consider the movement of the United States toward the European Democratic Socialism model of government as a leftist initiative, or is it merely not as conservative as it would be now, but still conservative? These are not questions to entrap you. I am just trying to clarify what measuring stick you are applying here.
Next big question, do you think Nazi Germany would have done more toward the left if Hitler and the Nazis had been victorious? The reason I ask is because I do not believe for a minute that Hitler had instituted all of his policies that he had planned if he ultimately had more time to do it. I would say that Hitler plans and Nazi policies would ultimately have taken Germany further to the left.
Last point, Hitler had already done some of those things that you mentioned happening in the UK, which essentially included nationalizing industries or directing their activities to do whatever he wanted them to do. Hitler had also confiscated private property. Did they do that in the UK? And was the UK more socialistic than Hitler would have made Germany? In other words, I do not accept what you said that "In short their actual actions and stated policies were far more socialistic than anything Hitler did or said."
After you clarify for me some of the above points, I will try to post a better answer.