fags arent all bad

Forums: Political Correctness, Dyspepsia, Dyspeptic Postings, Dys Needs A Nap, Not Ciggies
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from what I read, fags aren't all bad because they're born "that way" what a crock, homosexuals are simply what they are regardless of cause. anyone who defends "homosexuality" as "genetic" is homophobic.

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Type: Discussion • Score: 14 • Views: 6,220 • Replies: 77

[+7] - ehBeth - 10/15/2010[quote="Thomas"] and what Dys is saying is, [/quote] you're sure he's not just looking for anything way to poke at BBB? because it sure reads that way and it's really f'ing...
[+5] - sozobe - 10/15/2010I disagree. A lot of the anti-homosexual argument is that they (homosexual people) are just choosing that identity so it's their own fault if they pay the consequences for that choice. Choice...
[+5] - engineer - 10/15/2010People understand that you shouldn't discriminate against skin color, gender, nationality. People are less understanding about discriminating around personal choices. You can deny a lease to...
[+5] - OCCOM BILL - 10/15/2010[quote="dyslexia"] excusing being gay because "it's genetic" is homophobic, it's a statement loaded with implication "he/she is defective but it isn't their fault because...
[+4] - sozobe - 10/15/2010That's fine. That's a reading of what he actually said, though, which was "anyone who defends 'homosexuality' as 'genetic' is [i]homophobic[/i]." Emphasis mine. I've managed to...
[+4] - Eva - 10/15/2010[quote="dyslexia"] [b]excusing[/b] being gay because "it's genetic" is homophobic, it's a statement loaded with implication "he/she is [b]defective [/b]but it isn't their...
[+3] - Setanta - 10/15/2010However, it can also be used as a basis to claim that it is an aberation, and that it can and should be "cured." I agree with the notion that it doesn't matter why someone is homosexual,...
[+3] - sozobe - 10/15/2010This is what prompted me to say "I disagree": [quote="Dyslexia"]anyone who defends "homosexuality" as "genetic" is homophobic.[/quote]
[+3] - Thomas - 10/15/2010[quote="sozobe"] This is what prompted me to say "I disagree": [quote="Dyslexia"]anyone who defends "homosexuality" as "genetic" is...
[+3] - OCCOM BILL - 10/15/2010[quote="dyslexia"] wrong, it is wrong for a teacher to scold a child for being left-handed simply because it's wrong to scold a child for being left-handed regardless of the cause. you...

@dyslexia,

I disagree. A lot of the anti-homosexual argument is that they (homosexual people) are just choosing that identity so it's their own fault if they pay the consequences for that choice.

Choice is a really central concept.

Pointing out that homosexuality is as innate as heterosexuality (did you choose to be attracted to the opposite sex?) can be an effective counterargument, there.

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However, it can also be used as a basis to claim that it is an aberation, and that it can and should be "cured." I agree with the notion that it doesn't matter why someone is homosexual, it's nobody's damned business, and it is gross bigotry to discriminate on that basis.

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@sozobe,

sozobe wrote:

I disagree. A lot of the anti-homosexual argument is that they (homosexual people) are just choosing that identity so it's their own fault if they pay the consequences for that choice.

Choice is a really central concept.

Pointing out that homosexuality is as innate as heterosexuality (did you choose to be attracted to the opposite sex?) can be an effective counterargument, there.

I believe the above is specious, since I do not think Nazis were swayed by the fact that Jews were born to Jewish families.

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@Setanta,

Setanta wrote:

However, it can also be used as a basis to claim that it is an aberation, and that it can and should be "cured." I agree with the notion that it doesn't matter why someone is homosexual, it's nobody's damned business, and it is gross bigotry to discriminate on that basis.

As long as society is homophobic, then it is possible that homosexuals can be coerced to do things, under the threat of being "outed." Then it might be "the business" of an employer, in some people's view, since I would not want state secrets to be compromised by someone who is under the threat of "outing." This can also be for the infidelity of a heterosexual spouse, not just homosexuals. But, I am just saying that homosexuality, in a homophobic society, might, in some circumstances be the business of others, for the greater good.

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@sozobe,

People understand that you shouldn't discriminate against skin color, gender, nationality. People are less understanding about discriminating around personal choices. You can deny a lease to someone because of their profession, but not their skin color. From a legal and social respect, presenting gender preference as an inborn trait makes the legal defense of civil rights significantly easier.

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@sozobe,

sozobe wrote:

I disagree. A lot of the anti-homosexual argument is that they (homosexual people) are just choosing that identity so it's their own fault if they pay the consequences for that choice.

So what's the disagreement? Why can't this argument be both irrelevant and wrong on its own terms?

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@engineer,

engineer wrote:

You can deny a lease to someone because of their profession, but not their skin color.

But you can't deny a lease because of the candidate's religion, which is a personal choice.

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@Thomas,

This is what prompted me to say "I disagree":

Dyslexia wrote:

anyone who defends "homosexuality" as "genetic" is homophobic.

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@sozobe,

sozobe wrote:

This is what prompted me to say "I disagree":

Dyslexia wrote:
anyone who defends "homosexuality" as "genetic" is homophobic.

... and what Dys is saying is, don't even start with this hereditary-vs-choice argument. Because by getting into it, you implicitly concede that its outcome is relevant when it isn't. Suppose homosexuality was purely a choice. So what? As Thomas Jefferson said about another personal choice, it neither picks my pocket nor brakes my leg.

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@Thomas,

That's fine. That's a reading of what he actually said, though, which was "anyone who defends 'homosexuality' as 'genetic' is homophobic."

Emphasis mine.

I've managed to make some real inroads with people using that argument, pointing to the science that supports it, etc.

You're right that "....and anyway it shouldn't matter" is compatible with the argument, but that particular argument is useful.

And I don't think implementing that argument makes me homophobic.

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@Thomas,

The word you wanted was "breaks."

Thomas wrote:

Because by getting into it, you implicitly concede that its outcome is relevant when it isn't

This is what i was attempting to say.

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@sozobe,

excusing being gay because "it's genetic" is homophobic, it's a statement loaded with implication "he/she is defective but it isn't their fault because it's genetic" so what's next, teachers shouldn't scold left handed students because "it's genetic"? it's just wrong thinking.

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@dyslexia,

dyslexia wrote:

excusing being gay because "it's genetic" is homophobic, it's a statement loaded with implication "he/she is defective but it isn't their fault because it's genetic" so what's next, teachers shouldn't scold left handed students because "it's genetic"? it's just wrong thinking.

Could be wrong thinking...OR...

Maybe you're making assumptions that by saying someone uses the phrase "it's genetic," they imply the above bolded language (excusing, defective, fault.) Perhaps it's not that at all. By saying "it's genetic," the speaker could just as easily mean that being gay is biologically-based and therefore perfectly natural.

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@Thomas,

Thomas wrote:

and what Dys is saying is,

you're sure he's not just looking for anything way to poke at BBB?

because it sure reads that way and it's really f'ing disgusting

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@Eva,

damn, I hate it when people argue with me, especially when they make a valid point.

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I've heard my gay Christian friends use the phrase "it's genetic" when stating that God made them homosexual, so who is anyone to say it's wrong. Actually, that is what I believe, too.

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@dyslexia,

dyslexia wrote:

excusing being gay because "it's genetic" is homophobic, it's a statement loaded with implication "he/she is defective but it isn't their fault because it's genetic" so what's next, teachers shouldn't scold left handed students because "it's genetic"?

Um, yes! Exactly.

There's nothing wrong with being left-handed. There's nothing wrong with being gay.

Teachers should NOT scold left-handed students for making the "choice" to be left-handed, when it's not any more a choice than being right-handed is.

I'll be very happy when homosexuality is seen as just as neutral of a genetic predisposition as lefthandedness.

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@ehBeth,

yeah I'm sure you're right, you always are.

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@dyslexia,

dyslexia wrote:

excusing being gay because "it's genetic" is homophobic, it's a statement loaded with implication "he/she is defective but it isn't their fault because it's genetic" so what's next, teachers shouldn't scold left handed students because "it's genetic"? it's just wrong thinking.

Pssst. If left-handedness is genetic; it is wrong for a teacher to scold a child for being left handed.

If a gay man proudly exclaims he was born gay, in your opinion; he's homophobic? (Check your premise.)

1 Reply

fags arent all bad

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