Reply Fri 15 Oct, 2010 10:14 am
from what I read, fags aren't all bad because they're born "that way" what a crock, homosexuals are simply what they are regardless of cause. anyone who defends "homosexuality" as "genetic" is homophobic.
  • Topic Stats
  • Top Replies
  • Link to this Topic
Type: Discussion • Score: 14 • Views: 5,214 • Replies: 77

 
sozobe
 
  5  
Reply Fri 15 Oct, 2010 11:09 am
@dyslexia,
I disagree. A lot of the anti-homosexual argument is that they (homosexual people) are just choosing that identity so it's their own fault if they pay the consequences for that choice.

Choice is a really central concept.

Pointing out that homosexuality is as innate as heterosexuality (did you choose to be attracted to the opposite sex?) can be an effective counterargument, there.
Setanta
 
  3  
Reply Fri 15 Oct, 2010 11:11 am
However, it can also be used as a basis to claim that it is an aberation, and that it can and should be "cured." I agree with the notion that it doesn't matter why someone is homosexual, it's nobody's damned business, and it is gross bigotry to discriminate on that basis.
Foofie
 
  0  
Reply Fri 15 Oct, 2010 11:42 am
@sozobe,
sozobe wrote:

I disagree. A lot of the anti-homosexual argument is that they (homosexual people) are just choosing that identity so it's their own fault if they pay the consequences for that choice.

Choice is a really central concept.

Pointing out that homosexuality is as innate as heterosexuality (did you choose to be attracted to the opposite sex?) can be an effective counterargument, there.


I believe the above is specious, since I do not think Nazis were swayed by the fact that Jews were born to Jewish families.
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  0  
Reply Fri 15 Oct, 2010 11:48 am
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

However, it can also be used as a basis to claim that it is an aberation, and that it can and should be "cured." I agree with the notion that it doesn't matter why someone is homosexual, it's nobody's damned business, and it is gross bigotry to discriminate on that basis.


As long as society is homophobic, then it is possible that homosexuals can be coerced to do things, under the threat of being "outed." Then it might be "the business" of an employer, in some people's view, since I would not want state secrets to be compromised by someone who is under the threat of "outing." This can also be for the infidelity of a heterosexual spouse, not just homosexuals. But, I am just saying that homosexuality, in a homophobic society, might, in some circumstances be the business of others, for the greater good.
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  5  
Reply Fri 15 Oct, 2010 11:50 am
@sozobe,
People understand that you shouldn't discriminate against skin color, gender, nationality. People are less understanding about discriminating around personal choices. You can deny a lease to someone because of their profession, but not their skin color. From a legal and social respect, presenting gender preference as an inborn trait makes the legal defense of civil rights significantly easier.
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Oct, 2010 12:59 pm
@sozobe,
sozobe wrote:
I disagree. A lot of the anti-homosexual argument is that they (homosexual people) are just choosing that identity so it's their own fault if they pay the consequences for that choice.

So what's the disagreement? Why can't this argument be both irrelevant and wrong on its own terms?
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Oct, 2010 01:01 pm
@engineer,
engineer wrote:
You can deny a lease to someone because of their profession, but not their skin color.

But you can't deny a lease because of the candidate's religion, which is a personal choice.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  3  
Reply Fri 15 Oct, 2010 01:02 pm
@Thomas,
This is what prompted me to say "I disagree":

Dyslexia wrote:
anyone who defends "homosexuality" as "genetic" is homophobic.
Thomas
 
  3  
Reply Fri 15 Oct, 2010 01:08 pm
@sozobe,
sozobe wrote:

This is what prompted me to say "I disagree":

Dyslexia wrote:
anyone who defends "homosexuality" as "genetic" is homophobic.


... and what Dys is saying is, don't even start with this hereditary-vs-choice argument. Because by getting into it, you implicitly concede that its outcome is relevant when it isn't. Suppose homosexuality was purely a choice. So what? As Thomas Jefferson said about another personal choice, it neither picks my pocket nor brakes my leg.
sozobe
 
  4  
Reply Fri 15 Oct, 2010 02:00 pm
@Thomas,
That's fine. That's a reading of what he actually said, though, which was "anyone who defends 'homosexuality' as 'genetic' is homophobic."

Emphasis mine.

I've managed to make some real inroads with people using that argument, pointing to the science that supports it, etc.

You're right that "....and anyway it shouldn't matter" is compatible with the argument, but that particular argument is useful.

And I don't think implementing that argument makes me homophobic.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Oct, 2010 02:02 pm
@Thomas,
The word you wanted was "breaks."

Thomas wrote:
Because by getting into it, you implicitly concede that its outcome is relevant when it isn't


This is what i was attempting to say.
dyslexia
 
  2  
Reply Fri 15 Oct, 2010 02:05 pm
@sozobe,
excusing being gay because "it's genetic" is homophobic, it's a statement loaded with implication "he/she is defective but it isn't their fault because it's genetic" so what's next, teachers shouldn't scold left handed students because "it's genetic"? it's just wrong thinking.
Eva
 
  4  
Reply Fri 15 Oct, 2010 02:21 pm
@dyslexia,
dyslexia wrote:

excusing being gay because "it's genetic" is homophobic, it's a statement loaded with implication "he/she is defective but it isn't their fault because it's genetic" so what's next, teachers shouldn't scold left handed students because "it's genetic"? it's just wrong thinking.


Could be wrong thinking...OR...

Maybe you're making assumptions that by saying someone uses the phrase "it's genetic," they imply the above bolded language (excusing, defective, fault.) Perhaps it's not that at all. By saying "it's genetic," the speaker could just as easily mean that being gay is biologically-based and therefore perfectly natural.
ehBeth
 
  7  
Reply Fri 15 Oct, 2010 02:28 pm
@Thomas,
Thomas wrote:

and what Dys is saying is,


you're sure he's not just looking for anything way to poke at BBB?

because it sure reads that way and it's really f'ing disgusting
dyslexia
 
  0  
Reply Fri 15 Oct, 2010 02:31 pm
@Eva,
damn, I hate it when people argue with me, especially when they make a valid point.
0 Replies
 
Eva
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Oct, 2010 02:32 pm
I've heard my gay Christian friends use the phrase "it's genetic" when stating that God made them homosexual, so who is anyone to say it's wrong. Actually, that is what I believe, too.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  2  
Reply Fri 15 Oct, 2010 02:32 pm
@dyslexia,
dyslexia wrote:

excusing being gay because "it's genetic" is homophobic, it's a statement loaded with implication "he/she is defective but it isn't their fault because it's genetic" so what's next, teachers shouldn't scold left handed students because "it's genetic"?


Um, yes! Exactly.

There's nothing wrong with being left-handed. There's nothing wrong with being gay.

Teachers should NOT scold left-handed students for making the "choice" to be left-handed, when it's not any more a choice than being right-handed is.

I'll be very happy when homosexuality is seen as just as neutral of a genetic predisposition as lefthandedness.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  0  
Reply Fri 15 Oct, 2010 02:32 pm
@ehBeth,
yeah I'm sure you're right, you always are.
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  5  
Reply Fri 15 Oct, 2010 02:33 pm
@dyslexia,
dyslexia wrote:

excusing being gay because "it's genetic" is homophobic, it's a statement loaded with implication "he/she is defective but it isn't their fault because it's genetic" so what's next, teachers shouldn't scold left handed students because "it's genetic"? it's just wrong thinking.
Pssst. If left-handedness is genetic; it is wrong for a teacher to scold a child for being left handed.

If a gay man proudly exclaims he was born gay, in your opinion; he's homophobic? (Check your premise.)
 

Related Topics

 
  1. Forums
  2. » fags arent all bad
Copyright © 2021 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.03 seconds on 07/24/2021 at 12:47:25