Man Bashing, and what Men should do about it

@Setanta,

i don't know about bill, i think he just likes a good (or futile) fight, i know i do

but i believe hawk believes what he says, the problem is, i don't see it

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@Setanta,

Quote:

Rapist Boy and Bill have been lining up the staw men in rows and knocking them down, followed by self congratulation on the excellence of their rhetorical skills.

Kinda sad, ain't it?

LOL this coming from a fool that just put out one bit of misinformation after another on the Hitler thread and when challenge stated the details do not matter and that is not his point or some such nonsense.

1 Reply

@Setanta,

Quote:

Rapist Boy and Bill have been lining up the staw men in rows and knocking them down, followed by self congratulation on the excellence of their rhetorical skills.

Kinda sad, ain't it?

Rationalizations for avoiding the subject of gender fairness is certainly sad. You can run but you can't hide, reality always demands to be dealt with eventually.

And we have the internet now, it is easier than ever to get around the gate keepers, those who push their agenda by way of controlling the conversation. The internet has democratized discourse, and while I understand why the elites are currently up in arms because of what they consider to be too much chatter from the inferiors, in the end it will be good for us.

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@Setanta,

Setanta wrote:

Rapist Boy and Bill have been lining up the staw men in rows and knocking them down, followed by self congratulation on the excellence of their rhetorical skills.

Kinda sad, ain't it?

It's pathetic but kind of funny.

I find it very similar to the modern Republican ethos; which is to say, these guys see themselves as continual victims. The culture of victimhood. It's a defense mechanism, allowing their brain to push aside any actual responsibility on their part for their poor interactions with women.

Cycloptichorn

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@Mame,

Oh by the way Mame please name the university that Edison went to that was not open to women?

Hint he too was completely self taught and I know you will disagree but I can not see the money men of that time period turning their backs on a source of one money making invention after another because of the sex of the inventor.

They surely did not turn their backs on a very lowly telegraph operator with no formal eduction or social stranding.

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@hawkeye10,

Quote:

By Abigail Trafford
Tuesday, April 4, 2006

Something very wrong is happening with men, and that means something very wrong is happening in the relationship between the sexes. Men, it seems, are falling behind. They can't keep up with women in school, in marriage or in retirement.

In the race for acceptance into college, for example, teenage boys are generally less qualified than girls, according to a stunning commentary in the New York Times by the dean of admissions at Kenyon College in Gambier, Ohio.

They are less likely even to go to college; nationwide, more than 56 percent of undergraduates are female, and that percentage is expected to rise. If college applications were based solely on merit, women might take 80 percent of the places at selective schools, by one estimate.

What is happening to young men, who once dominated higher education? Is it that boys take longer to grow up? Or that a liberal arts education is increasingly irrelevant in a high-tech world? Or what?

Men are not doing so well in the marriage marketplace, either. Too many men just don't make the grade as husband material. In a provocative essay in The Post -- "Marriage Is for White People" -- writer Joy Jones, an African American, argues that black women want to get married, but a good man is hard to find. A lot of white women may feel the same way. While marriage rates have plummeted among blacks, they have declined among whites as well. Washington is filled with glamorous, educated, successful single women in their thirties and beyond who are searching for equally qualified mates. They aren't so desperate that they will settle for Mr. Wrong.

"Today, people have become economically self-sufficient as individuals, no longer requiring a spouse for survival," writes Jones. Who wants to take on a husband with a long list of problems -- "children and their mothers from previous relationships, limited earning power, and the fallout from years of drug use, poor health care, sexual promiscuity," Jones continues.

The plight of men doesn't get better with age. In retirement, men seem to have more difficulty in finding new purpose and joy in life once their identity is cut off from the workplace. They lose whatever status a job title conferred. They find themselves marginalized in a society that discriminates against older people. The risk of depression is significant -- and the highest rates of suicide are found in white men over 65.

"I think men are in crisis," says Ron Browne, director of the What Next! program at the Fairhill Center in Cleveland, a not-for-profit organization dedicated to successful aging. "It's partly due to the rise of women in the workforce and their becoming more equal to men; it's partly due to the changing world of technology that older men don't understand. And it's exacerbated because men don't communicate with anyone."

Browne runs a men's group. At 63, he is a veteran of three marriages and several careers, and he understands the social landscape for older men. "There's a loss of power in the workplace," he continues. "Guys with big jobs are now downsized and demoted. The loss of sexual power is a problem. We still harbor that image of our young self."

The problem with men that has no name is not something we envisaged in those early, giddy days of the women's movement. We wanted a level playing field at school and at work and at home so that we could all be raised "free to be you and me." We didn't want to push men aside. We wanted to join them on the upper deck and enjoy the synergy of merging our talents and responsibilities -- in both the public and private spheres of life. After all, we love men. They are our partners, the fathers of our children. We worked hard to get rid of labels that branded women the fragile sex and men the favored sex. We never imagined that society would swap the labels.

To be sure, a significant number of men are not in crisis. They are in charge. Just look at the leaders in business and politics and the professions of law and medicine. They are largely men, and barriers remain against women at the higher echelons of power. That still leaves too many men in a funk. And we women want them to get out of it. But how? Maybe that's the challenge for the new wave of feminism.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04/03/AR2006040301364.html

Ya right....to get there feminists would have to at least claim to care about men, what happens to men. This seems unlikely. This is yet another area where feminist do not represent the best interests of women.

1 Reply

@djjd62,

Quote:

or maybe you and your buddies are just paranoid, a mr, j mccarthy saw reds under the beds, and tried to scare everybody, but he was just another chicken little

A odd charge given the efforts that some on the women on this system had put out to scare all other women with silly and very very pump up rape statistics.

Not a red but a rapist they claimed under every college dorm bed or one in four beds in any case.

Somehow I miss your postings on how they are being paranoid as I am sure being an honest person you had post such.

1 Reply

@Mame,

Mame you do know that women was the very first computer programmers with the "first" major language Cobol being mainly created by a woman?

And yet Microsoft or Apple or any of the major companies software or hardware that came out of the personal computer revolution of the late 70s 80s does not seem to have any females for some strange reason.

Here women had a generation lead in being involved in software and yet........

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@Arella Mae,

Arella Mae wrote:

BUH-BYE!

You say that a lot. Often, several times in the same thread. Please do us a favor and just heed your own words.

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@DrewDad,

Quote:

You say that a lot. Often, several times in the same thread. Please do us a favor and just heed your own words.

I would strangely miss her.

She is not a bad person she just had fallen into bad company.

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@DrewDad,

Yep, I do say it a lot. I give them chance after chance. But don't worry. I'm done with them no matter what thread they are on.

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@hawkeye10,

Quote:

women get bossy and guys go play video games or get drunk or submerse themselves into sports.....getting the conflict between the sexes out in the open and coming to some negotiated settlement that both sides can live with would be the adult thing to do.

What's your point? Your wife tells you to do some things around the house, so you sulk and go play video games, or get drunk, or submerge yourself in sports? And that sort of response, on your part, is her fault?

You actually haven't said a damn thing in this thread. You mumble vague, overly-generalized things about "men in crisis" or "man bashing" without giving a single concrete example of what on earth you are talking about, or how it personally affects you. Since this subject is of such importance to you {you've posted more than one thread on the topic and mentioned it in others} it must have some relevance to your own life.

Are you in crisis? What conflicts do you actually have with women? How do you arrive at a "negotiated settlement" with those women you actually interact with?

Truthfully, you don't sound like a man who does very much actual, real life communicating or "negotiating" with women.

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@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
By Abigail Trafford
Tuesday, April 4, 2006

Something very wrong is happening

<snip>

They are less likely even to go to college; nationwide, more than 56 percent of undergraduates are female, and that percentage is expected to rise. If college applications were based solely on merit, women might take 80 percent of the places at selective schools, by one estimate.

that's wrong for sure.

Not sure why you think men are getting the short end of the stick. Your own source suggests that men continue to get into college at a higher rate than they merit.

Drunk

you've got a real gift there.

1 Reply

@ehBeth,

Quote:

Your own source suggests that men continue to get into college at a higher rate than they merit.

Unless you think that men are more dumb than women, which I do not, the combination of men needing special help to get into college and doing less well than women when they get there is a problem. We need to get to the bottom of why males are doing so poorly by the time they hit 18 YO. What is it about how we raise children that makes males less advantaged?? and why do we still insist that females are disadvantaged when all evidence shows that for the younger generations the situation is reversed? How can we be so blind to how rapidly the pendulum reversed when the evidence is right in front of our face??

Willful ignorance I'd say..

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@hawkeye10,

Really, this is your bitch... Boys aren't going to college? Why do you think this isn't a conscious choice? I have two kids, the girl is in Uni, the boy wants to go into the trades. He's had the same education, the same choices, the same deal from day one as the girl, and yet, he chose to go his own route. In Alberta at least, this is not necessarily a pay cut in fact, depending on his choices, he may end up earning far more than my daughter with her, fingers crossed, double degree.
Who are you to second guess anyone's choice?
For years women were kept out of the institutions. They had to beg to enter those hallowed halls. Maybe women are just more interested in these courses, these careers. More and more women are entering the trades as well. Why do you assume this is detrimental to men?
Why does the success of women, in any way hurt men?

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@hawkeye10,

Quote:

How can we be so blind to how rapidly the pendulum reversed when the evidence is right in front of our face??

No, the pendulum has not reversed. Women were deliberately disadvantaged and held back by very real institutionalized societal barriers--including being deprived of the right to vote and discrimination in employment. But there are no similar societal barriers preventing men from pursuing educational or employment opportunities. When the barriers for women came down, they were not replaced with barriers for men. The playing field simply became more level, and women have taken advantage of their increased opportunities.

Males are not being disadvantaged. Some males may be lazy or lacking in ambition, or too short sighted to formulate and work toward long range goals, but those seem to be personal factors and not due to any prohibiting forces in society. Perhaps they should stop playing video games and hit the books.

You are also over-generalizing again. Many young men are goal directed and doing quite well in their lives. They are also getting into the top schools, going to grad school, etc. and men still dominate the top echelons of government, business, and the professions of medicine and law, so young men have plenty of successful role models to look up to.

What is it about how you raise your children that makes the males less advantaged?

1 Reply

@firefly,

Quote:

Males are not being disadvantaged. Some males may be lazy or lacking in ambition, or too short sighted to formulate and work toward long range goals, but those seem to be personal factors and not due to any prohibiting forces in society. Perhaps they should stop playing video games and hit the books

In other words you freely admit that you don't know what is going on. We should find out. In the meanwhile it is clear that women are doing much better than men. It is certainly time to stop saying and acting like they are disadvantaged. If anyone needs extra attention and help it is the males. Fairness dictates that the one who is most in need should get first priority at the resources.

Your attitude towards men is that if they are having problems "**** them, they deserve it". This again shows off your lack of humanity.

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@BillRM,

that's for them to post, i have little or no opinion on the rape thread

i just don't see this male bashing that hawk is so paranoid about, again, maybe it's because i don't care, i'm not married, don't plan on being married, so my relationships with women tend more to wards friends than anything else

i'm also (hopefully) over half way through my life and when i'm gone the women can bash any man they want, hell they can start tomorrow, i doubt it would bother me

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Forget advantage/disadvantage for a second. I'll simply address this notion of "bashing."

If I was being unfairly defamed by a woman, it is not as if no woman would come to my defense. Likewise, if a woman is defamed, it is not as if women alone come to her defense. This gender war narrative you seem incapable of disengaging is pure ignorance. It is not about good and bad men. It is not about good and bad women. We only need concern ourselves with being good people. When we do, good people come to our aid when we are in need of support.

You seem to lack support, and that's why you are trying to draw in all of men into your cause.

A
R
T

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

Quote:

In the meanwhile it is clear that women are doing much better than men

No, I don't think that is clear at all. You are setting up a strawman.

You are claiming, rather ridicuously, that an entire generation of young men is falling by the wayside. Then you claim it is because they need extra help and resources. What type of "extra help"? What resources do they need? What's not available to them that is available to young women?

If you complain about young men not going to college, or not working hard once they get there, what do you attribute that to? How come women are able to apply to college and work hard? Are the females being handed something the males don't have?

Women still are disadvantaged by primarily being responsible for the care of children, which can interrupt a woman's career or her earning ability. There is still a lack of good, affordable day care. Many women who are not pursuing careers still work at jobs so their families and children can enjoy a better standard of living, or just so the bills can be paid, and many of those women still do the shopping, and cooking, and take care of the home, and attend to the children, in addition to holding those jobs. Women have taken on more responsibilities in the work force, but by and large they have not abandoned their traditional roles. Now women just have even more to do than they did before. You see this as being "advantaged" Laughing

Sorry, I fail to see what young men are being deprived of or why they should need "extra help". I see young men as being just as capable as young women. You are the one doing the "male-bashing", not me.

1 Reply

Man Bashing, and what Men should do about it

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