11
   

Man Bashing, and what Men should do about it

 
 
hawkeye10
 
  -3  
Fri 24 Sep, 2010 10:27 pm
@failures art,
Quote:
You seem to lack support, and that's why you are trying to draw in all of men into your cause
No, I look at the adults currently being formed or just recently formed and I see a big problem with men not being formed well. We are failing at raising men, and we must have the balls to recognize the problem and deal with the problem. You FART of course refuse to even look at the problem, so you need to slander anyone who mentions it so that you'll have a spiffy sounding excuse for your failure to be objective and fair.

You remind me a lot of Cyclo, you swear up and down how educated and reasonable you are, but take two minutes to look into your claims and positions and it quickly becomes clear that you are running from the truth as fast as your feet will take you.
hawkeye10
 
  -3  
Fri 24 Sep, 2010 10:30 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
Sorry, I fail to see what young men are being deprived of or why they should need "extra help".
We established that when we established that you have no idea what is going on with men.
failures art
 
  5  
Fri 24 Sep, 2010 10:57 pm
@hawkeye10,
failures art wrote:
You seem to lack support, and that's why you are trying to draw in all of men into your cause

hawkeye10 wrote:
No...We are failing at raising men, and we must have the balls to recognize the problem and deal with the problem.


Like I said: Trying to pull others in.

You abuse the word "we."

A
R
T
hawkeye10
 
  -2  
Fri 24 Sep, 2010 11:21 pm
@failures art,
Quote:
Like I said: Trying to pull others in
Like I said, you can't possibly deal with the subject, all you can do is piss around it...
failures art
 
  6  
Fri 24 Sep, 2010 11:52 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
Like I said: Trying to pull others in
Like I said, you can't possibly deal with the subject, all you can do is piss around it...

I managed to get an education and funding and a competitive job. Not only that! I did it as a man!

Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked

In your warped reality where this is sooooo damn hard as a man because women have the advantage, I apparently deserve some sort of praise for going up and over all the obstacles placed in my way by women. My success apparently represents overcoming some great adversity.

You're just making excuses for your own shortcomings. You want something to blame. I'm unimpressed.

A
R
T
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  5  
Sat 25 Sep, 2010 02:51 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
We established that when we established that you have no idea what is going on with men.


Who is the "we"? Rolling Eyes

It is rather ironic that the only male-bashing" being done in this thread is being done by you.

Without out any justification, you are claiming that all young men are failing. You see them as inadequate. You say they need "extra help", they need "resources". You are implying they can't keep up with women, they are "falling behind", they will become marginalized. To make such a blanket negative statement about all young men strikes me as "male-bashing" of the worst sort. Why are you characterizing all young men so unfairly? Why are you implying they are all losers, in your estimation, and in need of some kind of outside resuscitation and urgent help?

You read one article that says college enrollment for men has dropped off slightly, and from that you jump to the illogical conclusion that all 18 year old men are in some sort of serious decline? Men in crisis! Men in crisis! Men in crisis!

In thread after thread you have bitched and moaned about the poor, powerless, downtrodden male, the victim, the "collateral damage" of women's equality, whose shattered sense of masculine power has left him without a proper place in the universe, and at a terrible disadvantage in the "war of the sexes".

Do you really believe that crap? When you're getting drunk with your buddies and having some "man talk" is that what you tell each other--is it one big pity party?

You are the one bashing men. You do it in this thread. You insult and put down any man who disagrees with you--as though their experience of being men carries no weight, because you're the only one with balls, the only one who sees the truth. And what's the truth? Women are always adversaries, enemies, and if men don't start wresting their power back fast, women will have them enslaved and (gasp, gasp} "feminized".

Fortunately, the average 18 year old today grew up in a world where women were already more equal. He has no reason to feel displaced or dislodged from his pinnacle of power and control. He has no reason to feel he is more entitled to prerogatives simply on the basis of his gender. He has no reason to feel that women have robbed him of something or are holding him back...unless he's grown up with a father like you who's tried to fill his head with that garbage.
And there is no reason this 18 year old shouldn't be as adventurous, or as determined, or as motivated, or as ambitious, or as hard working, as his grandfather was, because nothing in the world has changed since Grandpa's day that would limit his choices, or his potential, to follow whatever path he choses to find satisfaction and accomplishment. And that's how he'll express his sense of "self" rather than through some out-dated and confining notion of "masculinity".

Your "male bashing" will only make that 18 year old men feel inferior, because you're the one selling him short, telling him he's not keeping up with his female counterparts, making him feel inadequate. Give him self confidence to deal with challenges, tell him to always do his best, urge him to be responsible, and, caring, and considerate, and honest, and principled. That's what makes for a good and decent and mature person--an admirable man--and not playing some alleged proscribed "masculine role".












0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  3  
Sat 25 Sep, 2010 03:40 am
@BillRM,
What a clown--you challenged one, and only one piece of information which i posted, and i provided the source from which i got that. You live in a dream world in which you are actually knowledgeable and rhetorically competent. You're a legend in your own mind.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  3  
Sat 25 Sep, 2010 03:42 am
@hawkeye10,
Smoke screens to avoid decribing the specific problems this alleged gender bias in action creates, and concrete solutions for them is certainly sad. You chose on your own to say that you would identify the problems and find solutions, no one demanded that of you until you shot off your big mouth. You have provided zip, zilch, de nada so far.

So deal with that reality, clown.
0 Replies
 
Lambchop
 
  6  
Sat 25 Sep, 2010 06:32 am
Hawkeye, several people here have asked you to please be specific and so far, you've failed to be.

What exactly is it that women are doing that ticks you off so much? What do you want your fellow men to do about it and how would they benefit from joining your cause? Just saying, "Don't take **** from women," isn't much of a rallying cry.

I've seen some of these men's right's sites and basically they do the same bs that Hawkeye is doing here. They are never specific about the issues that they supposedly see as a threat to men, nor do they present any specific goals or solutions.

They just rant. These guys would love to go back to a time when women were denied a chance at higher education and had few (if any) employment opportunities. In other words, a time when women were totally dependent on men.

They don't actually come out and say it (they don't have the guts to), but they hint broadly at it. They say things like, "women today have too many rights, too many choices and options," and "they should be put in their place."

Well, sorry, Hawkeye. We're not going back to the eighteenth century. Too bad you missed it.

These guys hate feminists and they also hate the so-called "alpha males." In their worldview, the alpha males are the jerks of this world. They get all the good jobs, and they get all the women! So the alpha males must be vanquished too!

Seriously, you should see some of the stuff these guys come up with. It would be totally laughable if it wasn't so pathetic.
0 Replies
 
Lambchop
 
  5  
Sat 25 Sep, 2010 07:25 am
Bill RM wrote:
Quote:
Oh by the way Mame please name the university that Edison went to that was not open to women?

Hint he too was completely self taught


Edison was home schooled....by his mother.
Mame
 
  1  
Sat 25 Sep, 2010 09:02 am
@Lambchop,
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha - good one Lambchop!

By the way, could you provide a link or two to those other sites? I'm in the mood for some entertainment.
Intrepid
 
  2  
Sat 25 Sep, 2010 09:27 am
It seems rather laughable that Hawkeye considers himself the spokeman for men everywhere. Or, what he calls real men. The reason for the laughter is that Hawkeye considers himself a real man when he doesn't even seem to know what one is.

He should spend less time whining and wimpering and try to develop some manly traits that women would appreciate. He should realize that women are not the cause of his inadequacy. He is.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Sat 25 Sep, 2010 09:29 am
Hehehehehehehehehehe . . .
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Sat 25 Sep, 2010 12:11 pm
Questions that I have that don't seem to be a priority but should be

1) Why are males doing so much worse than females in schools

2) Why are males doing so much worse than females when preparing for the job market

3) why are young males such heavy users of porn

4) why do young males have such a negative view of females

5) why are young males so averse to marriage and committed relationship

6) why do young males generally assume that the female will be in charge in the relationship

7) why do young males do so poorly at handling women

8) Why are young men so incapable of looking after their own well being

The question of what has gone wrong with young men is almost completely ignored in the States, but there has been some interest in looking into this in Briton. It is very difficult to prove that current status of boys and young men BECAUSE the question is not on the radar of the majority. It is very clear to me that there is a problem, and we are beginning to hear the same conclusion from others. So far we have a lot of a2k'er who want to make this all about me, dont want to even consider the question, which I think is illustrative of why this is being ignored. The idea that men might be in trouble can not be faced, it is politically unacceptable for this to be true, therefor it can not be.

But what if it is??

Quote:
One of the headlines that will no doubt accompany this year's results, as it has for results of the past decade or more, is the fact that boys have performed in these exams less well than girls (or conversely that girls' grades have tended to rise, while boys' have marked time). That trend has lately seen 64% of girls achieve five A*-C grade GCSEs while only 54% of boys reach that benchmark. It has also seen half of young women participating in some form of higher education, but only 37% of young men. These trends are being felt in the (ever shrinking) jobs market, where even among recent graduates men are 50% more likely to be unemployed than women; that, in turn, is reshaping domestic arrangements across the county. More than a quarter of British men aged between 25 and 29 currently live with their parents (the figure for women is 12%), and a tenth are still in the family home at 35.

As Will Hutton observed in this paper recently, "we have a growing army of underperforming, unnecessarily idle and too often unemployed young men. Unable to motivate themselves, they just stew…" Though this drifting battalion is made up predominantly of the least educated fifth of young men in the country, there is more than anecdotal evidence to suggest that it is drawing recruits from all social backgrounds.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2010/aug/15/teenagers-trouble-with-boys-tim-adams
djjd62
 
  1  
Sat 25 Sep, 2010 12:28 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

1) Why are males doing so much worse than females in schools more to do with the education system than women

2) Why are males doing so much worse than females when preparing for the job market statistics to prove this, cause i don't know this is true

3) why are young males such heavy users of porn because it's readily available, boys/men have always been heavy users of porn, but going into a grubby store to buy skin mags loses it's appeal as you age, now you just have to log on

4) why do young males have such a negative view of females i worked with a lot of younger guys a few years back (summer students), most of them only wanted to get in a girls pants, pretty much how i remember being, and i have a great appreciation for women now, you make it sound like they're all serial killers

5) why are young males so averse to marriage and committed relationship maybe because marriage is a mess, my parents divorced (early 70's), i wanted nothing to do with marriage or kids, i know many guys like me, but we like women and don't blame them for these feelings, plus it's not as big a social stigma to have kids outside of wedlock, one of the longest lasting couples i know have two kids, thirty years together not married, they are joined by property and a business but saw no need for any outside blessings

6) why do young males generally assume that the female will be in charge in the relationship can't speak for young people (and why the interest in young males anyway, it's gonna be their world not yours)

7) why do young males do so poorly at handling women need more info, in what way

8) Why are young men so incapable of looking after their own well being i learned to cook and do laundry at a n early age, love to cook and did so in most of my relationships (my choice), i've found that most young folks don't know how to look after themselves (both males and females), home economics should come back, i went to high school in the 70's, a few years before i started our high school axed a class that was basically home ec for guys, i was pissed, i really wanted to take it
BillRM
 
  -1  
Sat 25 Sep, 2010 12:32 pm
@Lambchop,
LOL he was school by both the local schools and his mother to the point he could read and write and do simple math beyond that he was completely self taught.

His mother surely did not teach him advance mathematic or the then known sciences or technology of the time.

Nor did he get such training from any place that a woman at the time could not gain access to.

Good try however.



0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Sat 25 Sep, 2010 12:34 pm
@Mame,
It was cute but it does not support your claims that only males had access to education during that time period that would allow them to achieve greatness.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Sat 25 Sep, 2010 12:38 pm
@djjd62,
Quote:
Bahram Bekhradnia, the HEPI's director, spoke of the "general hopelessness of young men". "The increase in unemployment that occurred between 2008 and 2009 is striking. For those graduates who have not found work it is a personal tragedy – a really bad start to their working lives," he said.

He pointed to forecasts that suggest women will dominate the professions within 15 years. "That has all sorts of implications for things such as family creation, child-rearing and so on. The situation in some countries is even more extreme. An American woman told a conference I attended of the fury of black American women who found it impossible to form relationships with men of the same race with similar educational attainment because black American males weren't going to university.

"If you aspire to form relationships with people who have similar educational backgrounds then women will find that more difficult as this trend becomes accentuated."

But he pointed to "one important caveat" revealed in the study: while men are finding it harder to get into the job market, once there they continue to achieve higher pay. Today's study reveals that male graduates starting work are paid on average 11%, or £2,000, more than women. Three years on, the gap has widened to more than £4,000, or 17%.

Around half of the difference can be put down to subject choice, but the rest is unaccounted for and could indicate discriminatory forces. Yesterday, the Fawcett Society, a women's rights organisation, warned that the government's emergency budget would hit women hardest. They pointed out that women make up the bulk of public sector employees and rely more heavily on state support.

Nevertheless, the underachievement of men in school, university and adulthood is now an international phenomenon and it is one that is being increasingly studied in psychology. Academics are also interested in why men are so much more likely than women to turn to crime
http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2010/jul/04/unemployment-male-graduates
Mame
 
  1  
Sat 25 Sep, 2010 12:40 pm
Good responses, dj... I echo them. And I'd like to add that my 27 yr old son loves women, treats them well, and is in a committed relationship. He's what I would consider a normal young man.

Again, Hawk, I think it's who you're hanging with. None of the young men I know (sons of my friends) are as you describe. Two are lawyers; three have their own business, make that four; three are working musicians; and there are more. All are gainfully employed, and all are in steady relationships, if not married. None seem to exhibit the signs and symptoms you delight in detailing. The sky is NOT falling, Hawk... maybe you should look somewhere else for your stats.

Yes, it's true that women are excelling in schools, at all levels, but that's because they're working at it. Maybe the guys are more interested in sex, partying, sports... and not school. What has that to do with women? That's all to do with the men.

If women comprise 56% of university enrollment, that still means that 44% of the enrollment are men! I'd worry if it was 80-20. And just because the percentages are down for males, it doesn't mean the fate of men is on a decline Smile It just means they're doing other things, like trades.

If men don't know how to deal with women, how is that a woman's problem?

I forget what else you said, so I'll have to go back and take a look... but my question is, why is this all attributable to women?
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Sat 25 Sep, 2010 12:43 pm
@djjd62,
Quote:
and why the interest in young males anyway, it's gonna be their world not yours)
Because it was our (the older men and women) responsibility to raise them into fully functioning capable men, and we seem to have failed. Because how we are moving as a society is reflected in the young, because once we are fully formed we change little. I was forged in the 1960's and 1970's , who am reflects the collective at that time, it is by looking at the young that we get the closest to seeing how we are doing right now.
 

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