Man Bashing, and what Men should do about it

@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

For some reason women are choosing to have sex with men who are having sex with other women over the men who are not getting any at all. This can not be disputed.

Sure it can. The easiest explanation is simply that the women aren't aware of how many other partners the men have had. I suspect this shows nothing more than "charming men get laid more often." This is hardly news.

Your graph only shows the percentage of people who are reporting that they've engaged in these behaviors. It says nothing about their motivations, desires, choices, or what information they had when they made those choices.

You're seeing what you want to see or expect to see. You're not examining the data critically.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

Where do those numbers you cited say that 80% of women are having sex, but only only 63% of men are having sex?

What you posted seems to refer to vaginal sex. That would mean that 63% of men are reporting having vaginal sex--others might be having anal or oral sex. 80% of women are reporting vaginal sex. But, even these figures are lacking additional info. Did they ask participants about their usual sexual behaviors? Did they ask whether vaginal sex was the only type of sexual behavior engaged in within a certain timeframe? Did they ask about preferred sexual behavior?

The numbers you cited just don't support any of the conclusions you are drawing.

This finding from the study was interesting

Quote:

Now, an Indiana University survey has come along to put some confirming data on the faked orgasm phenomenon. Published today in the Journal of Sexual Medicine, the survey found that 85 percent of men said their partners climaxed during the most recent sex act, while 64 percent of women reported they actually did.

"There's this massive gap between men's perception and women's reality," says Debby Herbenick, co-author of the research and associate director at the Center for Sexual Health Promotion at the university. "It shows a lack of communication between partners, either by women faking it, or by men not asking or noticing if their partner [climaxed]."
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Sex/sex-surveys-masturbation-sheets-america/story?id=11776702

Men are not satisfying women as much as they think they are. And that seems to be men of all ages, not just the younger men.

1 Reply

@firefly,

firefly wrote:

What you posted seems to refer to vaginal sex. That would mean that 63% of men are reporting having vaginal sex--others might be having anal or oral sex.

Good point. It doesn't reference sexual orientation, either, and I wouldn't expect homosexual men to be having vaginal intercourse.

Also, the percentages seem to be skewed by age. Younger men don't have has much sex as older men. Older women don't have as much sex as younger women.

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@BillRM,

i have two nephews, i've never given one seconds thought to their sex lives

as for welfare and happiness, i hope they're healthy and happy, but really it's their lives, of folks do things that supposedly make them happy that i can't grasp, so who am i to judge

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@DrewDad,

The other thing that I think Hawk should be wary of is he is assuming a 'closed system'. There is every chance that respondents in this survey had sex with someone who was not surveyed, so comparing percentages could have no meaning at all.

1 Reply

@hingehead,

Quote:

The other thing that I think Hawk should be wary of is he is assuming a 'closed system'. There is every chance that respondents in this survey had sex with someone who was not surveyed, so comparing percentages could have no meaning at all.

So you are arguing that the first major study on sex practices done in 16 years, one that is being touted as a major advancement in our knowledge base, was conducted by incompetents who give us useless numbers. ...Do you have any evidence?

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

No, that's not what he's arguing.

I'm beginning to doubt your ability to understand plain English, let alone interpret a survey study.

1 Reply

@DrewDad,

Quote:

No, that's not what he's arguing.

Maybe he is completely ignorant about science, for that matter maybe you are too, but a study that does not have a representative sample of the thing being studied is useless, and is a flawed experiment, which is what HH is essentially arguing is the case here.

Sorry for the confusion, as I am not in the habit of explaining every little detail of my argument, as I have some faith that my reader posses some intelligence on the matter. I can backtrack as much as you need though.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

a) It is not an experiment, it's a survey (underlining my point about you assuming a closed system)

b) to explain my point in the most basic terms

Imagine if the survey had one male respondent who had sex 300 times with women who didn't do the survey, and by chance none of the women who did the survey had sex in that same time frame.

Then using your logic the survey would say there were 300 sex acts, none of which involved women.

Do you get my point? I'm not saying the survey is wrong, I'm saying you should be cautious making assumptions about whether the males and females surveyed were reporting only the sex they had with other survey respondents.

But no, I'm the one who doesn't understand science, even though I used words like 'cautious' and 'could'. As opposed to what I feel like writing now which is 'you are a ******* idiot'.

1 Reply

@hingehead,

Quote:

It is not an experiment, it's a survey

It is a social science experiment that surveys individuals in order to get the required data

Quote:

Do you get my point? I'm not saying the survey is wrong, I'm saying you should be cautious making assumptions about whether the males and females surveyed were reporting only the sex they had with other survey respondents

I don think that it matters if the individuals know each other or not, what matters is if the individuals picked represent a broad cross section of how people act, and if the actions depicted in the study match up to how often they happen in America. I think that the only two reasons to be cautious would be if either the individuals were picked poorly thus don't represent the norm or if we have some reason to think that they did not self report the truth. I am not currently aware of this study being thus flawed.

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@hawkeye10,

Quote:

It is a social science experiment that surveys individuals in order to get the required data

No, it is not an experiment of any kind. It is merely a survey.

And the data you cited do not support any of the conclusions you have drawn.

Perhaps you should try actually reading the entire survey report and see what conclusions they drew from from their own data. They are in a better position to do that than you are because they are familiar with all the data they collected.

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@hawkeye10,

But you are making assumptions on a false premise, that those surveyed are having sex with each other. And it is not an experiment. What hypothesis was it testing? Where was the control group? Even in the social sciences these exist. It is clearly just a survey gathering data.

1 Reply

@hingehead,

Quote:

But you are making assumptions on a false premise, that those surveyed are having sex with each other

I have already explained that I am not, and I am not sure where your failure to understand comes from. I suspect that your mind is locked into thinking of individuals, where as the individuals are only used as representatives of the collective so the relationship between the individuals is irrelevant. It does not matter if chrystal is having sex with Adam who is in the study or joe who is not, so long as the things that chrystal does, and the frequency that she does them matches what american girls of her age group/class/enducation level/race/region/religion/personality type and so on and so on .... do.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

Hawk, I can see the point you're making but your approach is still fraught with error. You compound your error by focusing in your first post about this by separating the 19-24s from the rest of the population.

So you say that because women receiving oral from men is 70% whereas men giving oral to woman is 55% there must a smaller number of men giving a lot of head to multiple partners, but if you'd only looked up to the next age brackets you would notice that men giving head to women outnumbers women receiving head from men.

Did you think that just possibly those 19-24 women were getting sex outside their age bracket?

That's just one example of the problem I said your assumptions could be prone to.

2 Replies

@hingehead,

Quote:

Did you think that just possibly those 19-24 women were getting sex outside their age bracket?

You are right. This study simply asked people in different age groups about their sexual habits and practices. The people in the study were not having sex with each other. This is simply pooled data, broken down by age and gender of the respondents.

You can't draw any assumptions or conclusions about the frequency of sexual contacts, or the number of sex partners, from that graph. It simply reports the type of sex practice reported by males and females in each age group.

In fact, the study found that people tend to engage in more than one sex practice during a single sexual interaction with a partner--so a person might have reported engaging in vaginal, oral and anal sex, and partner masturbation, all in the same sexual encounter with a partner. But, on that graph, it's simply broken down into separate sex practices.

You really have to read the entire report to fully understand the data.

Nothing Hawkeye is concluding seems to be supported by the data in the report.

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@hingehead,

Quote:

Did you think that just possibly those 19-24 women were getting sex outside their age bracket

It could be, but I doubt that it would matter much to the nearly 40% who get nothing if they are being beat by guys their own age or older guys. I dont think that older guy/younger girl paring would account for much difference in this age where by all evidence younger guy/older girl is more popular than ever. Your suggestion is within the realm of theory, but I judge it to be highly unlikely.

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@hawkeye10,

Quote:

but I judge it to be highly unlikely.

Good enough for me. Sorry by that I mean that anything you consider unlikely is almost certainly true, on recent form.

Now do you want to explain why you were posting this piece to this particular thread? Are you advocating that women should stop oppressing those 40% and put out for them?

1 Reply

@hingehead,

Quote:

Are you advocating that women should stop oppressing those 40% and put out for them?

I don't know what the solution is, but first we have to recognize that our young men are in trouble before we will be able to come up with solutions, and I take this study as one more bit of evidence on the pile that many young men are lost. I certainly think that the older men who still have their balls and their wits need to take young men in hand, and attempt to guide them. I think that men need to stand up and demand to be taken seriously in their homes as a role model for young boys, and stop letting women run them over. I certainly think that we have to do something to get away from the mindset that every man is a potential abuser of women and get to the reality that very few men abuse women, and that one is presumed innocent untill proven guilty. They young men need to be treated as if they practice equality and non violence until and unless it becomes clear that they don't.

Maybe none of these remedies that I propose will work, but they may, and we should be doing them anyways.

2 Replies

@hawkeye10,

I find it hard to believe that anyone woud model himself after someone else.

I 've had guys that I admired:
George Washington, Thomas Paine, Patrick Henry, Adam Smith,
Douglas MacArthur, Ludwig von Mises & Herbert Philbrick, Hugh Hefner,
but it has never occurred to me to MODEL myself after anyone.

David

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

Why don't you go look out your windows, get out into this world you live in, and look at what most of us actually see. What you see, anyhow, is what you'll get. The world today, right this very minute, is as good as it gets. You don't think so? Then get to reading your history of this planet and the people who've lived in it before. In every single solitary way, today's world and the people living in it are the best it's ever been. People can only talk from themselves, and all this strange talk coming from you is all about yourself.

1 Reply

Man Bashing, and what Men should do about it

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