Man Bashing, and what Men should do about it

Your point is what? That case is a tragic example of a failed attempt at gender re-assignment. It is about gender identity.

Gender identity--knowing whether you are male or female--has nothing to do with culturally learned, and acquired, notions of "masculinity" and "femininity".

We teach children to recognize gender differences--i.e. a boy knows he is a boy because he has a penis.

But then we begin teaching them how boys and men are "supposed to act", how we expect them to act, what "masculinity" is--i.e. men don't cry, men are strong, men are tough, men are independent, men should be in charge and in control of things, etc. We teach children how to think and act like men, as part of socialization, just like we teach them manners, toilet training, religious beliefs.

This might be easier for you to understand if you realize that different cultures have different notions of "masculinity". Our culture has a patriarchal notion of "masculinity". In a matriarchal culture, notions of "masculinity" might be quite different.

Cultural gender roles, stereotyped expectations of appropriate gender behaviors, attitudes, etc. are learned.

Since cultures and societies undergo changes, these notions about "masculinity" (and "femininity") may also have to change or expand over time, rather than remain rigid or fixed, in order to keep them useful and not dysfunctional.

No. I have tried, but you don't hear other opinions. You're blinkered, and therefore useless as a discussion companion. You are excellent at deflecting the real causes.

Real in your mind only, because there has been no determination as to what the problem is. Hell, not that many people even admit that there is a problem. You are another one who gets all pissy when people dont automatically agree with you, and you are one who has so much lack respect for the other person that you twist in your mind the not agreeing with you into not listening to you. You are I assume conditioned to expect that when ever you open your mouth that everyone around you will kiss your ass and tell you how right you are. I dont do that.

You are going to have to adjust to being around people who believe that they are your equal.

So now women are to be blamed for not soothing the "male ego" enough--and that's why men are having problems?

Can you think of any more ways to blame women?

Why don't you think about why men should need so much ego-soothing?

Maybe if they didn't have such unrealistic notions of "masculinity", that were making them feel like failures, they wouldn't need the ego soothing.

Women need men as partners, friends, companions, lovers, help-mates--isn't that enough for you? What else do you want to be needed for?

You really do not listen, or think about, what anyone else says. Mainly, you don't think. You've decided women are to blame and that's it. And you insult anyone who disagrees.

It is impossible to have a discussion with you. You don't want a discussion, you want a woman-bashing pity party for men.

Well, you better buy some funny hats and balloons for your party, cause the women ain't gonna do it for you.

Why should I care, it is how men are, it makes no difference to me if God made it so or if it rather is a 1000 generations of genetic codeing.

Men and women need to be a team, which means that men need to do for women even if we dont understand why women want/need what ever it is and women need to do likewise for men.

Men need to feel valued, how is this difficult for you to do? Isn't the refusal to do this for a man the text book definion for "bitch"? I think it is.

What god? I need no such ego soothing. What a wimp, in addition to being a whiner.

You know you said you would identify the problems and propose solutions. I've yet to see come though on that.

Bullshit, I explain where I think the dynamic has gone bad, for which I blame both men and women. You are making excuses for your refusal to deal with the issues that I raise, nothing more noble than that.

There is a difference between raising issues (which are real, which exist) and just making them up.

I am not smart enough to come up with solutions on my own, which is why I am on a2k trying to discuss the problems that I notice. That is a pretty high threshold that you have there buster, that one should not bring up a problem unless they already have in mind a solution.

says you, i could give a **** if i'm valued or not, i decide my worth

Have you considered marriage counseling? If you don't feel valued it is an issue in your own life with the women in your life.

These seem to be your own personal problems.

It's not my threshhold--it's what you said you would do:



But i understand, Rapist Boy--that was just more of your typical gas. An attempt to sound good, while not actually carrying through on any of your own proposals.

I haven't seen you yet identify a problem upon which the people here can agree, and you expect that they should help you to fix the problems you just imagine exist?

Loon

Everyone has a different vantage point. It might be that I see something that you see but I think it is a problem but you don't. However, for you to jump to calling this me making up a problem does not speak to anything other than your lack of respect for me. Which is fine, you are entitled to your opinion, but lets be both clear that you are not talking about anything factual.

Find a mirror, and read that out.

you are having a logic breakdown today I see.....saying that we as a group need to identify problems and then fix them is not at all the same statement as before one can speak of a problem one must also have in mind a solution. You know this, but have drifted into asshole mode.

You are using the first person plural (we're writing here, not speaking, so you have all the time in the world to go look that up to understand the significance), but i don't see anyone here other than Bill who agrees with you that any such problem exists. So it's up to you, in your prepetual asshole mode, to identify the problems and to fix them, because so far, no one else believes your screed.

My bet is that you will now go into your "martyr to the truth," "lone voice crying out in the wilderness" routine, it's one of your favorite phony poses.

So you have said before. I have told you that I am convinced of my current oppinion and that you have neither offered evidence or argument that convinces me that my current conviction is wrong. I am the subject matter expert on me, so you should defer to my opinion here. The fact that you dont is part of a continuum where you demonstrate a lack of respect for people who dont agree with you.

You come here with a proposition, and no one else is obliged to prove to you that you are wrong. You have the burden of demonstrating that your proposition is correct--that your "conviction" is justified.

You have, so far, signally failed to do so.

I have no such obligation, however since I feel that I have perceived a problem that most other people are oblivious to this is certainly my goal. I assume that I am right so I call this precess raising awareness. It is hard to say how successful I have been because saying the things that I say is subject to extreme public disapproval, and everyone knows it. I also dont know the hearts and minds of the other people here, so far as I know I don't know any a2k member in real life. I have hopes that I am helping people to see what I see, but even if I knew I was failing I might still continue to try out of a moral obligation to do what I can to help my species.

It does get annoying when I am making an argument about a subject, not messing with anyone, not talking about anyone here, and someone who does not like what I am saying jumps in with an unprovoked personal insult. MAME just did that. This was wrong of her, and I take it as a sign of the weakness of her position. I take it that she can not put down my argument with fact/evidence/or logic so she is forced to depend upon insulting the speaker, trying to discredit the speaker rather than the argument. This happens so often at a2k that I have in my time here become even more convinced then I was before that I am essentially on target with my argument.

We cant talk about this stuff in real life because PC laws have shut down a good deal of societal discourse. We normally can only talk about this in real life with people that we have a good idea at least partly agree with us. Being able to talk about this at A2k with a broad mix of people, pretty close to a cross section of the actual population, is a real treat, it is alot different than preaching to the choir like I normally do. I am very appreciative that Robbert has both provided A2k, and allowed me to remain even though what I claim is the truth is offensive to much of the membership.