Racism cured or only in temporary remission?

If a white employee works for a weathy black boss, is he a slave?

I had a conversation about this topic today with a friend of mine. He is a very strong man, who is on the verge of a full football scholarship to Ole Miss. He is not your typical southern "redneck". He is probably the most fun loving guy you will ever meet, and one of the most likeable.....his thoughts were:

"I think of it this way....If I don't know you, I hate you....I hate the Queen of England, she could be a stinky slut for all I know....But I think there is a difference between niggers, and black people.....Niggers are loud, ignorant, and confrontational....There are alot of black people I hate, and alot of white people I hate....But the one I hate the most is that slutty bitch in England!"


And I firmly believe this is the stance of about 70% of white southerners(and for the ones that like to point fingers...I'm in the 30%).

I was considering entering this conversation earlier, but backed off to read for a while. Then I thought I would post about the human trait called xenophobia, but then Cav spoke to the matter. I think racism and simple otherism is all around us, on big feet, every day, but that not all people share the burden of it to one group or another at any one time.

I'd really hate to have my government's policies right this minute ascribed to me. I am fairly insulted that someone would say they know my mind, if I were white. Or brown, which I agree about, Cav, re a hundred years from now. Or black. I refuse to call asians that other color.

I am closer to some people of other - hey, here is an old word, probably repellant, but I'll try it, extractions - than I am to many one would suppose me close to.

I am sorry for people with blanket animosity, as it is a huge burden to hold.

truth
Child of the Light, yeah, he sounds like a real "fun loving guy." It's a shame he hates me--just because he doesn't know me.
BYW, it's an interesting fact that racism exists even in the absence of races. Anthropologists now reject the notion of race (the American Anthropological Association petitioned the federal government to remove all mention of "race" in the next general census). It is a social phenomenon studied by sociologists, not a legitimate biological phenomenon studied by physical anthropologists.

Well, I should say if you were friends with him you'd love him. He said he only cares about his friends, and family.


You don't think he is a fun loving guy.....you judged him and you probably think he has a mullet and no teeth, that's the real shame

Appropriate point, JLN, re the anthropologists' view.

truth
Child, I was only funnin' playing with your careless quotation from him, that he actually HATES anyone he does not know. I really thought you meant that he does not love people who are not his intimates. Sorry.

After all has been said and done, only one person, ebrwon_p, stated unequivocally that he believe that the social and economics gaps between blacks and whites were caused by the history of racial exploitation. Thus, he attributes these gaps to EXTERNAL stimuli. Now, if the cause of something is not EXTERNAL, it can ONLY be INTERNAL. To suggest that Social and economic gaps are INTERNAL to blacks is to suggest that there is a genetic propensity that makes blacks inferior. If I have to say it a million times….I WILL. Those of you who plead the fifth, in order to avoid self-incrimination are hiding something. You ask me how I know what’s in your minds…. well I will tell you. I know what’s in your from the combination of what you say and what you do not say.

The salient point is the binary options of INTERNAL or EXTERNAL, NATURE or NURTURE as to the cause of the social and economic gaps. One does not have to say outright that blacks are inferior. All that they need to say is or imply is that the gaps are not due to known external stimuli such as oppression. By default, when an option is binary and you exclude one, you thus select the other. So the denial that these racial gaps are the product of white discrimination and oppression of white people is by default saying those blacks are inferior.

You all can filibuster and say that I all over the place, ridiculous or any other means of subterfuge and obfuscation the substance and logic of my proposition. Any objective person can see that is what you all are doing. You say that I have know way of knowing what you think, yet, in order to know, I ask a simply question and all of you except of ebrown_p, has decided to filibuster or try to misdirect or other means of aversion that is tantamount to a person pleading the fifth in a trial….in order to prevent self incrimination.

For people who say that I do not know what they think…you sure do a poor job of attempting to demonstrate that I am wrong, by revealing to me what is right.

It is irrelevant that race is not a valid biological phenomenon as long as it is an OBSERVABLE phenomenon. Being an American is not a valid biological phenomenon either, yet, all of you consider yourselves Americans. Race is a social construct, created from observable difference in humans. Most people do not walk around with DNA testing kits to confirm that people they meet are of one race or another. However, human visual sensory receptors can observe differences and characterize those differences as race, or ethnicity or nationality.

I know that race is not a biological reality, because all people actually came from black people in Africa, who migrated and whose phenotypes mutated and adapted to different climatic conditions.

Sigh....once again, Noah appears to be talking more than listening, or, let's say, "reading between the lines", a phrase he seems fond of. Fine. I will put my opinion down here as clear as day. I do not believe that Blacks have a genetic propensity to be inferior to whites. By the way, I'm not saying that to try to "not appear to be racist", it happens to be my belief. So there. However you interperet it is your business.

Noah having been spoon fed the knowledge by you that all people sprung from Africa, I will now ask that everyone, from this day forward, refer to me as a Caucasian/African American.

By the way have you considered that the first man to spring up in Africa was white, that some migrated to other climates and the ones left in Africa mutated to adapt to the climate and became black?

That’s not the question cavFancier. The question is what accounts for the social and economic gaps between blacks and whites, if not the years of oppression and manipulation upon black peoples, by white peoples? If these gaps are not due to external and social manipulation, what are they due to? Do you agree that the gaps are caused by the history of white social and economic oppression of blacks? Do you think it was something else that causes it? If so, then what? Maybe you just refuse to think about it and thus are ignorant? Is not ignorance often part and parcel to racism?

I wouldn't really know, Noah, seeing as my family were Russian Jews, who had to be smuggled out of Russia due to persecution, with Cossacks plunging bayonets into the haycart my grandfather was riding in. As a child, he watched officials break into his house, and he hid under a table while they got drunk, raped his mother and then shot his father. Somehow, he made it to Canada and made a proper living, despite his history. In conclusion, don't call me ignorant, or racist, and perhaps think about where your racism comes from. You are so narrow-minded in your focus on the differences between Blacks and Whites, you cannot even see that the problems you describe happen all over the world. I am done with this thread.

Yes but Cav, that's just white on white crime and therefore not germaine to the issue, the ONLY issue, that whites are devils and only blacks have ever suffered persecution, right Noah?

Hey, start a thread about Russian persecution or maybe a thread about how the term “Slave” derived from the inhuman treatment of the Slavic peoples, but this that is not the germane topic of this thread. By the way, I am well aware of the persecution and oppression of other groups of people in this world and none of it has anything to due with the situations of blacks in America or Africa. Furthermore, most oppressed white people had to IMMIGRATE away from their oppressors. They did not pull themselves up by the bootstraps in the same land and among the same group of people that oppressed them. African Americans are still living in the land of their oppression among the same government and peoples who oppressed them, but now under different laws. So you are not qualified to compare your ancestor’s oppression, because they left the land of their oppression, while black people still reside in ours.

Yes, you are through with this thread, as I knew you would eventually, when faced with and issue and truth that you cannot handle. You all certainly like to talk about how I know supposedly do not know what’s in your heads, yet, your response and retreat was predicted.

Yes, you can claim ignorance as your answer to that question, but ignorance points more toward the likelihood of being racist…than it does to exonerate someone from it. Have a good day and I hope you find another topic that does not threaten you to the point that you have to coward away to avoid introspection and an epiphany about yourself.

Actually, seeing as I popped in, I can handle truth, I just don't accept yours, Noah. Also, I never claimed ignorance. Also, I am in no way threatened by you, Noah, of the one-note issue. Quit flaming already. The bottom line is, I don't give a crap about your question, especially in light of the fact that you don't seem to take ANYONE'S opinion to heart, probably because they are white. I think you need more focus here. Okay, now I'm done.

Yesterday I asked you this. You never addressed my question, but continued to go on with your harangue. What EXACTLY is the point of what you are doing? What do you intend to accomplish?

Until I get an answer from you, I am outta here!

http://www.fadetoblack.com/namegenerator/

You need to lose that white devil name by the way. It's degrading.

One final, and I mean final, point: Noah, as I stated earlier in this thread, you posted a question that you already have preconceived answers for. Your rhetoric about ignorance and "looking inside" and "epiphany" just add up to one thing. You want all white people to accept that they are responsible for the situation of Blacks in America and Africa, and apologize for it, feel sorry for you, and if we don't, we clearly believe in white supremacy. It's a loaded argument, with loaded conclusions on your part, and therefore not worth debating. But then again, I'm probably a Klansman. Outta here.

truth
Noah, I'm glad to see that you are aware that while there are genes there are no races. The first is a biological category, the second a sociological one. "Social race" (from the anthropologist, Charles Wagely) is what you are talking about. But I would add that even to believe in the existence of races reveals a kind of racism since it implies that there are fundamental differences between populations that may have implications for behavior and abilities. You are undoubtedly right that the history of ethnic peoples (everywhere in the world where one population conquers and/or enslaves another) reliably predicts that the conquered and/or enslaved will suffer on-going disadvantages of all sorts. The main thing about Black America is that it is subtantially overcoming its self-deprecation. Who was it, Malcolm X, who said that the worst thing the white man has done to the black man is to teach him to hate himself? (this applies to most minorities in America to some variable extent). And it definitely applies to the conquered Indians of Mexico who have been taught by their conquerers (with the assistance of their church) to humble themselves and feel shame before non-Indian Mexicans.
But I do think--or at least I get the sense--that the history of "race" relations in this country has shaped your perceptions to an extreme and rigid extent. Chill out and give well-intentioned "whites" a chance. Don't drive people like Cavancier away from you because you are so difficult to communicate with on this topic.