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A thought on capitalism

 
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Sep, 2010 12:45 pm
...I must get a farm close to "nowhere" in the map, preferably in an inaccessible rocky island with no beaches and hard access by boat...and no airport to... Rolling Eyes

Then I can see the price on cereal go up and not worry about it when I get old...
0 Replies
 
Berendey
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 23 Sep, 2010 01:01 pm
@Cyracuz,
Do you really belive that communism has died for its leaders had the lack of moral quolities, low educational level and experence?
I do not think so. They was very sophisticated men who have been working hard on high posts of socialistic industry. I agree that they loved the power and were very skillfull in cabals.
But they were surrounded by the army of highly educated bureaucrats.
Your point of opinion is supported by many intelligent people in Russia.
Very often an intellectual stays himself rather far of real economic life.
Cyracus, what is your job there in Norway, if it's not a secret?
Fil Albuquerque
 
  2  
Reply Thu 23 Sep, 2010 03:59 pm
@Berendey,
I don´t see how Communism which is utterly against human Darwinian nature, would sort the problem any better...but I can respect your opinion as any other...
north
 
  2  
Reply Thu 23 Sep, 2010 05:05 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
Fil Albuquerque wrote:

I don´t see how Communism which is utterly against human Darwinian nature, would sort the problem any better...but I can respect your opinion as any other...


communism suppresses change
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Sep, 2010 07:23 pm
@north,
...Agreed ! and it suppresses many other things also...
What mortifies me is that not all of them are "bad" people, quite the opposite...
Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Sep, 2010 07:45 am
@Berendey,
My job is no secret. I am a musician in the weekends, and during the weeks I often work for a friend of mine, helping him out in his trucking business.
These are my main sources of income at the moment, but I am working on other things as well.
I do not deny that through the capitalistic system I have some wonderful oportunities that may not have been available otherwise.

But my objection is this: We have such things as the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. We have the moral belief that all humans are equal in worth, and that all are entitled to safety, education and food.
Then we have capitalism, which enables the richest to rule ruthlessly on a global scale, and there are ways to circumvent any government, because there is no global government. So our precious moral values have for some reason become a lesser priority than feeding consumerism.

Perhaps my objections are not directly against capitalism. It is a global web, and through it the wealthy can control the poor. They will inevitably affect them. There is no government founded on moral values that has the same reach. That is a problem.
manored
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Sep, 2010 12:19 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:

Free Enterprize is Nature 's Way:
the Law of Supply & Demand in free operation !
But, thats the problem! Nature sucks! =)

If nature was a nice person we wouldnt be trying to transform the world into a dead rock covered in industrial complexes and an eternal, smokey night.

OmSigDAVID wrote:

Well, the point is to make the MOST of human life,
by having as much FUN and freedom
as we POSSIBLY can cram into our years n decades.
Its easier to do this then people arent trying to kill you to steal your stuff because they have nothing =)

Cyracuz wrote:

Would you say that the way we conduct our global affairs through capitalism is morally justifiable?
I think no.
I doesnt even make sense, so I wont bother to analyze the morality of the thing. It needs changing either way.

Cyracuz wrote:

and there are ways to circumvent any government, because there is no global government. So our precious moral values have for some reason become a lesser priority than feeding consumerism.
There is a global government, it just doesnt works. Simply because people look to other nations and see people different from themselves. I think that the admission of that we are all humans and should be all on the same side, and not competing against each other, is a necessary step in our evolution. I mean, the formation of a global country.

I think we are already walking towards that, in the european union for example. People say the european union wont become a single government due to the cultural differences, but, then people and stuff circulate freely between countries, culture will inevitably mix up and differences will be lessened. Perhaps in some 50 or 100 years...

Fil Albuquerque wrote:

...I must get a farm close to "nowhere" in the map, preferably in an inaccessible rocky island with no beaches and hard access by boat...and no airport to... Rolling Eyes

Then I can see the price on cereal go up and not worry about it when I get old...
The greedy corporations would parachute mercenaries into your island and steal all your stuff!

Fil Albuquerque wrote:

The problem seams to be that Capitalism support itself through Growth and Development when the Planet has Limited Resources...it cannot go on forever !
Yes, it can! We just need to figure out cold fusion and faster-than-light travel before this ball of mud pops! =)

No, really, I think we should be researching more into those things. Im personally counting in cold fusion to save us from the otherwise inevitable climatic/nuclear apocalipse.

cicerone imposter wrote:

And what is your "different approach?" Good luck; you ain't gonna find any.
You can just tweak laws, actually.

cicerone imposter wrote:

Not all wealth are created equal; some have earned it honestly with hard work.
Honesty and hard work are relative. For example, in order to work you must have something to work upon, or someone else must that is paying you. What right do you or that person have upon that thing? Ok, maybe you bought it, but where did the person that sold to you get that right?

See where I am going? Ultimately no one can truly justify ownership over anything, we just make and hold agreements. Thats why then these agreements are broken (In war or revolution, for example) things are simply stolen and its considered legal afteryards.

Cyracuz wrote:

It is a fact that some nations are locked in perpetual poverty because of the conduct of those who had everything, because they simply came and took it.
It was called imperialism, and ever since those times, the imbalances that were created have been entrenched by trade agreements forced on those who had no real choice in the matter.
I wouldnt say they are locked in perpetual poverty, they simply dont know how to get out of it. Poor nations are plagued with the corruption of their government, which makes it incapable of solving the problems and easily exploitable by external powers, and the general ignorance of the populace, which makes it unable to overthrown the corrupt government. I think that if poor countries suddenly had their population replaced by greedy and educated capitalists, they would get out of the mud very fast.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  2  
Reply Fri 24 Sep, 2010 12:53 pm
@manored,
Yeah Cold fusion would be it...I wish I could see that day coming in the horizon...
Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Sep, 2010 02:09 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
Yes, the day infinitely renewable energy is a fact things may change.
But it is likely that it would be a guarded secret used by those who saw it as their oportunity to rule over others.
Cause the worst kind of greed isn't about having as much as you can. It's about others having as little as possible.
Berendey
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Sep, 2010 07:10 am
@Cyracuz,
Thank you for your story.
I'm not a professional philosopher too.
I have received a brief obligatory course of marxist philosophy at an electronic univercity in my youth. But it was not interesting for me at that times. English though in restricted volume of technological courses have been more attractive.
And nowadays I began think over the problem concerned the weakness of our domestic democracy.
It seems to me that you are the man of left views.
My theory approves existance of left and right wings of the thought in society.
The progressive right people support development and interests of new economically effective relations of production.
The progressive left people are not neglecting these relations of production but they support demands of constructive interests which were born by ALL earlest "relations of production" (or "base institutes"). For instance it is "the right for life" generally.
You are maintaining the idea of world goverment. I don't argue if it will carry out social functions only. But money for these programs the independent global corporations will earn!
0 Replies
 
manored
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Sep, 2010 01:05 pm
@Cyracuz,
Cyracuz wrote:

Yes, the day infinitely renewable energy is a fact things may change.
But it is likely that it would be a guarded secret used by those who saw it as their oportunity to rule over others.
Cause the worst kind of greed isn't about having as much as you can. It's about others having as little as possible.
I doubt it, to make effective use of fusion you would need to power whole citties and factories with it, and it doesnt sounds realistic that one could use it in such a large scale and still keep it secret. And even if one managed to, it would still be benefiting everyone.
0 Replies
 
Berendey
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Sep, 2010 06:19 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
The Darwin's laws of biologic evolution we learned at middle school very carefuly.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_selection
That are: 2) Natural selection; 3).Variability; 4).Heredity.
I have added No.1 to these items: 1). Life,
and first period of "Periodical System for Relations of Production" have been ready!
The capitalism can't exist without alive people in it's basis really =)
0 Replies
 
north
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Sep, 2010 07:47 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
Fil Albuquerque wrote:

...Agreed ! and it suppresses many other things also...
What mortifies me is that not all of them are "bad" people, quite the opposite...


your right there not , for the most part
0 Replies
 
north
 
  2  
Reply Sat 25 Sep, 2010 07:57 pm
@Cyracuz,
Cyracuz wrote:

My job is no secret. I am a musician in the weekends, and during the weeks I often work for a friend of mine, helping him out in his trucking business.
These are my main sources of income at the moment, but I am working on other things as well.
I do not deny that through the capitalistic system I have some wonderful oportunities that may not have been available otherwise.

But my objection is this: We have such things as the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. We have the moral belief that all humans are equal in worth, and that all are entitled to safety, education and food.
Then we have capitalism, which enables the richest to rule ruthlessly on a global scale, and there are ways to circumvent any government, because there is no global government. So our precious moral values have for some reason become a lesser priority than feeding consumerism.

Perhaps my objections are not directly against capitalism. It is a global web, and through it the wealthy can control the poor. They will inevitably affect them. There is no government founded on moral values that has the same reach. That is a problem.


corps. will learn the hard way in the end that control or be controlling will bite you back in the end

to control , from a person to vast amount of people narrows the mind and thinking and therfore restricts the evolution not only the people but the controllers

thoughts become narrow minded and un-adaptable leading to extinction of the controllers and the people , quickly
Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Sep, 2010 08:19 pm
@north,
Perhaps.
To me it seems that it is our value system that is severely f**ked...
north
 
  2  
Reply Sat 25 Sep, 2010 08:26 pm
@Cyracuz,
Cyracuz wrote:

Perhaps.
To me it seems that it is our value system that is severely f**ked...



oh I agree

but thats not the fault of capitism philosophy

it is the fault of the people

reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Sep, 2010 08:27 pm
@Cyracuz,
Yes it seems that you are correct
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Sep, 2010 08:32 pm
@north,
I am not so sure that I would take capitalism completely off the table as not being one of the problems society has.
0 Replies
 
north
 
  2  
Reply Sat 25 Sep, 2010 08:36 pm
@reasoning logic,
reasoning logic wrote:

Yes it seems that you are correct


sure

but it is up to the people to balance the accumulation and desire for money with the desire to have a healthy and happy family , and friendship with others in life

and strangers really
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Sat 25 Sep, 2010 11:20 pm
@north,
I've been doing that for many years now. I'm now in Norway, and will be hopping on our ship later today for our 11-nite cruise along the coast up to the border of Russia, then turn around and return to Bergen for one night before flying home. Met some interesting folks already, and have fallen in love with Bergen - only because the weather has been kind to us.

Accumulate a little wealth, and enjoy life is my motto.
 

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