A thought on capitalism

amen

Capitalism can and does exist without government. There is no global government to match global capitalism.

Also, not trying to be cute, but our government operates at the whim of company monies. That's a fact that we cannot challenge.

Capitalism (especially global) has goverment (i.e. management) inside the bodies of companies. All private forms of economical subjects can't exist without bureaucracy inside them. But these "internal governments" are not quite independent and anarchical. They depends of a lot of external circumstancies.
One of them is relation to the national governments. At the times of developed capitalism the national goverment exists as institutional form of original state management. It controls the issues of the population which is not involved into capitalistic industries, for instance.
But if you abandon national governments then the global capitalism and the other private business will have falled very soon.

I do not think we can compare the board of directiors of a multinational corporation whose primary concern is financial gain to a government elected by free people to protect and govern their affairs among themselves.

I'm of the opinion that your interchange of words between government and management applies very well. Both operate from both external and internal influences.

From what I have observed about all levels of governments and businesses, I find businesses operate at a more efficient manner in all respects.

True Enough.

I dont agree entirely with this. Its like letting restaurants sell poisoned food without telling anyone. There would have to be a system in place to make absolutely sure people know what they are getting into before taking drugs.

Ultimately it comes down to whenever we would give people the freedom to suicide or not. Aka: are people allowed to self-destruct?

I agree, but its likely that a lot of catastrophes would happen before people learned to deal with guns. Its a case of "protecting em of their own stupidity". This probaly should happen gradually.

I dont see why do that. Prisions are basically that. Its true though that putting then all in one place and making it a "land of criminals" is cheaper than keeping then in tiny cells all over the country.

Why not just a big prision city, or something like that?

I think it would go down considerably but "almost ending" is an exageration. And a lot more people would die then crime did happen. And a lot more people would go nutshell over drugs and go out mass-murdering people. and etc.

I think society isnt ready for what you are trying to do to it. Changes like that need to be gradual.

Indeed. I think it was like "I need to create government because my people are so stupid I need my creation to lead then thru life and defend then from their own mental inadequacy".

No really, I think its very possible that the creators of governments, whom are usually the smartest among the smartest, admit and antecipate the stupidity of their people. Im not sure though, since im not a maker of governments. However considering how many laws there are that couldnt possibly benefit anyone, but protect people from themselves, I suppose its true.

If I believed in the christian god, I would say his reasons for creating the ten commandments were the same. You would only need to replace "government" with "the laws". =)

Lies. they were created to built temples to ease the wrath of the gods.

Governments seem to be composed of the most ruthless citizens of their countries, so I think we can, yes. And my history classes have taugh me that governments act in very much the same way, stepping on other nations shamelessy if its for the good of their own nation.

Everyone does. Most of the problems of the world are explained by this quote here.

But I think the responsability belongs to governments and laws, not corporations. Corporations are supposed to compete with each other as much as they can without breaking the law. If one stops to wonder if its actions are moral, it loses, it becomes like a runner that doesnt takes a shortcut in a running competition where taking shortcuts is allowed. Keeping corporations moral is a duty of the society, not of the corporations themselves.

There is, actually. There are international organs that regulate things such as economy and "fair dealing" between countries. And, off course, countries themselves also regulate to whom they sell or dont sell.

Are you sure that elections to a board of directors of a company are arranged only formally?
The difference is that one vote is multiplied by the number of shares.
These shares are equal a certain amount of money.
Money are debenturies from the commodity market.
In an elementary case you get money in exchange for the results of your labor. It turns out that someone has chosen your product and paid for it adequately.
And the choice of another persons (money) you turn to your right (shares) to make choices when a board of a firm (that can give you a portion of the profits) is elected.
Completely democratic!

It's a hierarchy, but not democracy, because that word refers to people, while this process is all about money. Perhaps it's a plutocracy..

Thought it was communism that beyond reasonable doubt was proved to be what you tink of capitalism.

Cyracuz has a different perspective on capitalism than most people who understands economics. I wonder if he enjoys playing on his computer - that must hurt him bad.

Capitalism is as merciless as nature itself, and for it to succeed as a fair system it has to be used with responsibility and integrity. As it is now capitalism is a means to bypass every moral obligation nature has bred into us and behave like predators among our own kind without rebuke.

URL: http://able2know.org/topic/161118-1
Do you live in a capitalistic country? If so, when and how long? Capitalism worked fine here in the U.S. for quite a while. In your opinion when, exactly, did capitalism fail?

The Democracy is actually more developed system of the ruling than the pure Hierarhy is.
But what we are doing at elections? We are doing a choice of heads for our ruling hierarcy there! And we submit the will of Majority after the choice that has been done.
The fact is that the Democracy has no any meaning without Hierarcy under Democracy!
That was J.Shumpeter who had noted this property 100 years ago.
In an early primitive society the Hierarchy (at first) and the Democracy (after) were dominating relations of production (look at my Table above, please).

There is no way to say that capitalism works fine in one place and not so fine in another. It's the same capitalism, and the reason it works fine in the US is that it is really not benefitting some people in a different place on the planet. This is an invevitable consequence of capitalism.

And yes, I live in Norway, a country that has embraced capitalism. But we also have socialism, because we understand that Capitalism is as merciless as nature itself, and for it to succeed as a fair system it has to be used with responsibility and integrity.

Well CI, maybe most people who understand economics think it is something more than it actually is.
Just in this thread you can find comparisons of capitalism to various forms of government.

That's simply because governments can greatly influence economics. If you look at the extremes between communism, tyrranical, and free market countries, it becomes very clear.

But that is why I am asking you when do you think it quit working, who was president, or something?. I didn't give any opinion of capitalism. But, I think it quit working because a lot of people lost all common sense, turned into thieves and cheaters. The greed is rampant. I imagine we will end up a social democracy. Nothing wrong with that, if it stops there.

People get dictators because their country is a complete and utter failure. We aren't at that door, yet. We have failed though, and I think it mostly because nobody even knew what our founding fathers really had in mind. Religion, even is sticking it's dumb head in our faces.

Now you being just as stupid as him, one does not become a psyco just by playing computer games, however an isolated childhood may have distorted his prection, or just being born that way.

HH, You must have missed Cyra's thesis that capitalism harms everybody. If I'm being as stupid as him, I'll take your word for it. I think you're dumber than Cyra.

I probaly am, but that doesn't make your former post less stupid.