What is hope...is there a difference between hope and faith

@izzythepush,

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It’s not about me and what I do on Sundays.

Nolo contendere.

@Leadfoot,

I drive to Frome and go to the market. I can buy a huge slab of cheddar worth more than thirty quid in the shops for a tenner.

I go there a lot and know quite a few of the retailers, there’s a real sense of community.

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@Leadfoot,

Leadfoot wrote:

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Your conclusion that it had to be ID...

I think you are cross threaded again. I have posted arguments regarding ID elsewhere if you care to discuss.

What did you mean by, "I've been saying that Evolution is built entirely on those assumptions since I got here," then?

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@Jiggy,

So then religion, being no different than science, is theory based on hypotheses.

Since you've dismissed the Theory of Evolution, what are the facts which give evidence for God in your theory?

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@InfraBlue,

I meant that As a criticism of Evolution theory. It is built on those rather unconvincing assumptions that another poster brought up.
ID is an alternative theory that is more convincing to me. There are others as well, like the ET origin of life. There is very little relationship between them other than they are all theories of origin of life.

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@Leadfoot,

An ET origin of life precludes Evolution theory?

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@Frank Apisa,

This is not about wanting anything Frank. This is about what is.
Faith existed centuries before our time. It was a term used in ancient Hebrew texts, and is associated with confirmation... i.e. based on convincing evidence.
That's why it is not what skeptics want it to be.
Skeptics are the ones who came up with the "blind" quip. They added "blind" to faith, because they wanted it to be.
These are the facts, which you can check for yourself. Just research the word faith in Hebrew.

So, faith is really described this way... Hebrews 11:1 - Faith is the substance (the assurance) of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
If one reads the entire Chapter, one will get an understanding of faith.

Think of this...
Which would you say?
a) I know the sun will rise tomorrow.
b) I believe the sun will rise tomorrow.

a) I know the seed I planted will grow into a plant.
b) I believe the seed I planted will grow into a plant.

Would you criticize a person who says, I have faith the sun will rise tomorrow, and the seed I planted will grow into a plant?

All basically are the same. The only thing is, we cannot know with any absolute certainty about either.
For some unexpected and unknown occurrence, the sun may not rise, and certain factors may prevent our seed germinating, and growing.
Because we believe, without absolute certainty, we can correctly use the word faith, because we have convincing evidence of what we expect, or hope for.

This is an easy way to understand what faith is, and that kind of faith do not apply only to religion. Scientists rely on it as well. However, that is the faith the Bible refers to.
We have convincing evidence that God is.
Notice how verse 6 expresses that truth. Without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him.

One believes - not blindly - but based on convincing evidence, so they have faith, and they hope in the rewards, or promises of God... which they don't see.
The evidence we have allows us to trust God too, even though we don't see him.
How can one attach blind, and guess to that? Let's be reasonable.

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Hope is desire, faith is belief, and anthropomorphic fairy tales are more risible than messiahs.

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@InfraBlue,

Since I am saying so-called science is what is based on assumptions, rather than verifiable evidence, and this is no different to religion, I think it's your turn to tell me if you disagree or not, and show me how they are different, if you think they are different.
I have asked more than once, and drew your attention to the fact that it's not fair to dismiss questions addressed to you, while asking question after question.
Do you consider that fair?

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@Jiggy,

There is a difference in that science is based on the observation of the physical, whereas religion is based on ideas that aren't physical.

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@InfraBlue,

Evolution being an obvious example whereby massive assumptions have been made by secular minds to try and fill in the gaps that Darwin HOPED would be filled in eventually.That isn’t science....

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@InfraBlue,

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An ET origin of life precludes Evolution theory?

Of course not. It is just a way of kicking the problems with Evolution down the road. The 'multiverse theory' is another attempt to do the same.

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@InfraBlue,

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There is a difference in that science is based on the observation of the physical, whereas religion is based on ideas that aren't physical.

Is there any difference in 'religious ideas' and, for example, Einstein's ideas about time and space?

Not saying Albert was wrong, but his ideas were just as non physical.

And contrary to assertions otherwise, 'spiritual ideas' are just as testable as Einstein's.

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@knaivete,

Good point about 'hope'. If that’s all you got, it’s just wishful thinking.

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@Jiggy,

Jiggy wrote:

This is not about wanting anything Frank. This is about what is.

If you actually are talking about "what is"...you would acknowledge that as far as gods go...we do not know if any exist or not.

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Faith existed centuries before our time.

Yeah, people made blind guesses about the nature of REALITY way, way back. And insisted that those guesses were correct. So what you call "faith" did exist "centuries before our time."

So what?

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It was a term used in ancient Hebrew texts, and is associated with confirmation... i.e. based on convincing evidence.

Horse ****. It is based upon blind guesses. There is no "convincing evidence" at all...no unambiguous evidence.

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That's why it is not what skeptics want it to be.

It is blind guessing.

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Skeptics are the ones who came up with the "blind" quip. They added "blind" to faith, because they wanted it to be.

You are wedded to your blind guesses. I hope you eventually work things out.

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These are the facts, which you can check for yourself. Just research the word faith in Hebrew.

Check it out in Swahili.

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So, faith is really described this way... Hebrews 11:1 - Faith is the substance (the assurance) of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
If one reads the entire Chapter, one will get an understanding of faith.

Yeah, the people who wrote that made some blind guesses...and are insisting their blind guesses are correct.

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Think of this...
Which would you say?
a) I know the sun will rise tomorrow.
b) I believe the sun will rise tomorrow.

Neither.

The sun does not rise. The Earth spins...and makes it appear to someone on its surface that the sun is travelling around the planet.

You should know that by this time.

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a) I know the seed I planted will grow into a plant.
b) I believe the seed I planted will grow into a plant.

Neither. I would say that I hope the plants I want are available at the store.

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Would you criticize a person who says, I have faith the sun will rise tomorrow, and the seed I planted will grow into a plant?

Not at all.

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All basically are the same. The only thing is, we cannot know with any absolute certainty about either.
For some unexpected and unknown occurrence, the sun may not rise, and certain factors may prevent our seed germinating, and growing.
Because we believe, without absolute certainty, we can correctly use the word faith, because we have convincing evidence of what we expect, or hope for.

Your point?

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This is an easy way to understand what faith is, and that kind of faith do not apply only to religion. Scientists rely on it as well. However, that is the faith the Bible refers to.

I am only talking about the words "believe" "belief" and "faith" as they apply to the comments "There is a GOD" of "There are no gods" here.

I have made that clear.

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We have convincing evidence that God is.

Horse ****. You have no convincing evidence that any gods exist whatsoever.

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Notice how verse 6 expresses that truth. Without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him.

If you are talking about verse 6 of a Bible book like Hebrews...it expresses blind guesses...not truths.

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One believes - not blindly - but based on convincing evidence, so they have faith, and they hope in the rewards, or promises of God... which they don't see.

Horse ****. Pure blind guessing.

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The evidence we have allows us to trust God too, even though we don't see him.
How can one attach blind, and guess to that? Let's be reasonable.

Okay...let's be.

Let us start with you acknowledging that you are blindly guessing that a God exists...and blindly guessing that the Bible describes what that God is like...what pleases it and what offends it.

Then we will be on a "reasonable" track.

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@Jiggy,

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Faith is the substance (the assurance) of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Bollocks.

Faith is nothing more than wishful thinking dressed up to go to church.

The only "evidence of things not seen" provided by faith is evidence of the invisible thought process which occurs in one's brain when engaged in self-deception and rationalization.

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@InfraBlue,

You believe religion is based on ideas that are not physical?
Then certainly that makes science beliefs religion.

Or perhaps I don't understand what you mean by "ideas that are not physical". If you explain, that would help.

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@Leadfoot,

The non-physical ideas statement got me thinking about that too.
Perhaps your question will help me get clarity on InfraBlue's statement.

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@Leadfoot,

The multiverse theory attempts to do the same as the ET origin of life in regard to Evolution theory?

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@Leadfoot,

Leadfoot wrote:

Quote:
There is a difference in that science is based on the observation of the physical, whereas religion is based on ideas that aren't physical.

Is there any difference in 'religious ideas' and, for example, Einstein's ideas about time and space?

Einstein's ideas, e.g. black holes, have been proven.

Leadfoot wrote:

And contrary to assertions otherwise, 'spiritual ideas' are just as testable as Einstein's.

How are spiritual ideas testable in the way Einstein's are testable?

1 Reply

What is hope...is there a difference between hope and faith

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