What is hope...is there a difference between hope and faith

Reply Tue 24 Aug, 2010 08:16 pm
GoshisDead wrote:

Faith = things believed but not seen, I have not seen tomorrow's sunrise, so I have faith in it. Inferential evidence has no hold over the defenition of faith. Aside from that faith can be and is often exercised despite physical evidence it is not subject to knowledge. If one who is exercising faith refuses to claim knowledge of something they can still exercise faith even if that faith is in the very same thing that they could readily know. Faith is not bound by nor should it be bound by logic.

Of course I have seen the Sun rise many times in the past, and I know it has many times before that. Moreover, apart from that, astronomy explains why I should rationally expect the Sun to rise tomorrow. So, although it is true I have not seen the Sun rise tomorrow, I do not have only faith that it will, and I not only rationally believe that it will, but since I have very strong evidence that it will, and since it will, I know that it will.

Inferential evidence has no hold over the defenition of faith What does that mean? And what does it mean to "exercise faith"? You don't think that there is a dog named "Faith" do you? Language, language! It is usually used for communication.

Could you explain what that sentence means?
Reply Tue 24 Aug, 2010 08:18 pm
"Hope is the dream of a waking man" Aristotle.
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Fil Albuquerque
Reply Tue 24 Aug, 2010 11:45 pm
...from Belief to Purpose...
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Reply Wed 25 Aug, 2010 12:23 am
yes used for communication ken, complaining that you don't understand just because you don't agree is getting old
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Reply Fri 20 Jun, 2014 08:37 pm
They are not the same thing, though they are more than closely related, at least within the context of a loving God.

Hope is the willingness to take hold of the possibility of something good, for instance love. Hope when allowed to grow will foster faith, which then takes the hope and beliefs it will come to pass. 1 Corinthians 13:13 says "And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love." Whether you believe in the God of the bible or not, the connection to these three can be seen all around us.

When someone hopes in spite of poor circumstances, they will start to believe good things are coming; faith is made alive in them. When an individual begins to live from that place the possibility to experience love more deeply comes alive.

So, hope is the fuel that makes faith possible. The two of them together makes love more powerful.
Reply Sun 22 Jun, 2014 01:24 pm
Consider this: sometimes hope prolongs suffering, and sometimes giving up hope puts an end to that which we add to our suffering. Remember, when Pandora opened her box all the blessings (and in another version, evils) escaped but hope (in order to prolong man's suffering?).
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Reply Mon 23 Jun, 2014 08:57 pm
Are you serious? Go to church. Eye roll.

Hope doesn't know. Faith knows.
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Reply Sun 2 Nov, 2014 01:42 pm
FAITH (SPIRITUAL STRENGTH)(Spritual conviction)

Rom 12:3
3 For I say, through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith.
Rev 3:8
8 "I know your works. See, I have set before you an open door, and no one can shut it; for you have a little strength, have kept My word, and have not denied My name.
1 Tim 6:12
12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, to which you were also called and have confessed the good confession in the presence of many witnesses.
1 Tim 6:14-16
14 that you keep this commandment without spot, blameless until our Lord Jesus Christ's appearing,
15 which He will manifest in His own time, He who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings and Lord of lords,
16 who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see, to whom be honor and everlasting power. Amen.
2 Cor 4:7
7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellence of the power may be of God and not of us.
James 1:4
4 But let patience have its perfect work, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking nothing.
James 1:2-3
2 My brethren, count it all joy when you fall into various trials,
3 knowing that the testing of your faith produces patience.
Phil 4:11-12
11 Not that I speak in regard to need, for I have learned in whatever state I am, to be content:
12 I know how to be abased, and I know how to abound. Everywhere and in all things I have learned both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need.
1 Tim 6:7-8
7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.
8 And having food and clothing, with these we shall be content.
Heb 13:5-6
5 Let your conduct be without covetousness; be content with such things as you have. For He Himself has said, "I will never leave you nor forsake you."
6 So we may boldly say: "The Lord is my helper; I will not fear. What can man do to me?"
Luke 12:15
15 And He said to them, "Take heed and beware of covetousness, for one's life does not consist in the abundance of the things he possesses."
Col 3:2-3
2 Set your mind on things above, not on things on the earth.
3 For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God.
Eph 4:21
21 if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus:
2 Cor 4:17-18
17 For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, is working for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory,
18 while we do not look at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen. For the things which are seen are temporary, but the things which are not seen are eternal.
Heb 11:1-3
1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
2 For by it the elders obtained a good testimony.
3 By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible.
Heb 11:6
6 But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.
Rom 10:17
17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Rom 10:8
8 But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith which we preach):
James 2:17
17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
James 2:20
20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?
James 2:24
24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
James 2:26
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
xxx Faith is spiritual strength. Now we read the Word and believe it, and if we believe it wrong we receive no real faith. But because faith is a gift from God according to our beliefs, this is why we change our beliefs. If we believe it right God is always there to add a portion of faith to the right belief. Our spiritual strength is what we stand on in resisting the devil. And resisting the flesh(emotions & feelings). Dont be deceived about faith, faith is not you just believing, that is blind faith. Faith is a gift from God for believing the right thing(verses). It says faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God. When you can hear the verses quoted to you in your mind by the Holy Spirit and you try to obey the verse you will receive spiritual strength to do just that. But only a portion never enough to get comfortable with but enough to obey the verse. But if your not receiving verses to grow by, and you think you have faith, you are walking in a delusional state.
Our part is to read the Word and believe what we read the way it is written. Gods part is to see that the power is in the Word that He has spoken. Gods gift to us for believing the Word is faith and that faith is our strength to submit to the Word of God. Many believe the Word of God but cant find the strength to obey it. And you cant feel your faith. You can only try to obey it because you believe it. Then you fight inside to obey it(fight the good fight). You fight against your emotions and feelings which are your unclean spirits. You fail and try again, you fail and try again. And each time you fail because you tried you receive another portion of faith. Until your faith is strong enough to obey. And every time you fight your going to suffer wrongfully, and that is walking in love.
Faith is our confidence that God will do what He says He will do in His Word. IF we do what He tells us to do.

Rom 5:1-6

1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
2 through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
3 And not only that, but we also glory in tribulations, knowing that tribulation produces perseverance;
4 and perseverance, character; and character, hope.
5 Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us.
6 For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

Eph 3:14-19
14 For this reason I bow my knees to the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
15 from whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,
16 that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with might through His Spirit in the inner man,
17 that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; that you, being rooted and grounded in love,
18 may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the width and length and depth and height--
19 to know the love of Christ which passes knowledge; that you may be filled with all the fullness of God.

1 Pet 1:3-10
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4 to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
6 In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials,
7 that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ,
8 whom having not seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory,
9 receiving the end of your faith-- the salvation of your souls.
10 Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you,

1Thes 1:5
5 For our gospel did not come to you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Spirit and in much assurance, as you know what kind of men we were among you for your sake.

Rom 5:9
9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.

Acts 2:40
40 And with many other words he testified and exhorted them, saying, "Be saved from this perverse generation."

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Reply Sun 2 Nov, 2014 01:43 pm

Rom 15:4
4 For whatever things were written before were written for our learning, that we through the patience and comfort of the Scriptures might have hope.
Phile 1:8-9
8 Therefore, though I might be very bold in Christ to command you what is fitting,
9 yet for love's sake I rather appeal to you-- being such a one as Paul, the aged, and now also a prisoner of Jesus Christ--
2 Cor 10:3-5
3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh.
4 For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds,
5 casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ,
2 Tim 2:4
4 No one engaged in warfare entangles himself with the affairs of this life, that he may please him who enlisted him as a soldier.
1 Cor 9:27
27 But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified.
2 Cor 13:5-6
5 Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?-- unless indeed you are disqualified.
6 But I trust that you will know that we are not disqualified.
Gal 5:24
24 And those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
Gal 5:16-18
16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.
17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish.
18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
1 Pet 2:15
15 For this is the will of God, that by doing good you may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men--
1 Pet 2:11
11 Beloved, I beg you as sojourners and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts which war against the soul,
Col 2:8
8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.
2 Pet 2:18-20
18 For when they speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped from those who live in error.
19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage.
20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning.
Eph 6:12
12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.
2 Tim 2:25-26
25 in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth,
26 and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will.
James 1:12-16
12 Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him.
13 Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am tempted by God"; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone.
14 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed.
15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.
16 Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren.
Phil 3:7-11
7 But what things were gain to me, these I have counted loss for Christ.
8 Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ
9 and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith;
10 that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death,
11 if, by any means, I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.
Rev 3:17
17 "Because you say, 'I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing'-- and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked--
1 Tim 6:5-8
5 useless wranglings of men of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain. From such withdraw yourself.
6 Now godliness with contentment is great gain.
7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.
8 And having food and clothing, with these we shall be content.
I Jn 2:15-19
15 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
16 For all that is in the world-- the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life-- is not of the Father but is of the world.
17 And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever.
18 Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour.
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.
Rom 8:24-25
24 For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees?
25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance.

XXX Hope and want are alot alike. If you can see it on earth you want it. If you cant see it you hope for it. Want comes from the flesh(outer person), and hope comes from the inner man. Hope is only true hope if you hope for things from above. Things you will never see.

Rom 8:23-25
23 Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body.
24 For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees?
25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance.

2 Cor 4:16-18
16 Therefore we do not lose heart. Even though our outward man is perishing, yet the inward man is being renewed day by day.
17 For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, is working for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory,
18 while we do not look at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen. For the things which are seen are temporary, but the things which are not seen are eternal.

Rom 15:13-14
13 Now may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that you may abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit.
14 Now I myself am confident concerning you, my brethren, that you also are full of goodness, filled with all knowledge, able also to admonish one another.

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Reply Mon 13 Mar, 2017 09:26 am
WITH Hope, you know how things are expecting to be because you have past evidence on how things can work out. Hope is based on former experiences as to causes and effects. Faith is all belief. You have faith in God's hearing a prayer, or answering a prayer but if it doesn't pan out do you give up faith? No, but you can be hopeless. You don't have faith that the sun will rise. You hope it does. It's analogous to the Schrodinger equation. Probabilities of where the electron is. Your hope is inside the cloud, your faith is outside. Hah! Now where did that come from. Sometimes it's hopeless but never faithless. I need another drink.
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Fil Albuquerque
Reply Mon 13 Mar, 2017 11:24 am
Commenting "en passent", without much thought, hope is less resolute than faith...

...you hope against facts you are aware of, while your faith in place of them.
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Fil Albuquerque
Reply Wed 15 Mar, 2017 04:57 am
I don't know the object of faith in order to have it. And if I know, I don't need it.

I hope the unfolding of Reason in my life is tammable by my little brain so that I can somehow diminish grieving when the worst days come about.
...perhaps I hope to much...
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Reply Wed 1 Nov, 2017 10:28 am
Hope is what gets dashed when you bet the roll of a pair of dice will come up aces.
Faith is what gets dashed when you win that bet.
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Reply Thu 2 Nov, 2017 08:49 pm
Hope is a charlatan who deceive us continually. To me, happiness started when hope left me. (Nicolas Chamfort)

I read of dudes who believe in resurrection and eternal life, and have faith that such will happen.

Hope one day I can have the same faith.
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cicerone imposter
Reply Sat 4 Nov, 2017 03:08 pm
Isn’t motivation more important?
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Fil Albuquerque
Reply Sun 12 Nov, 2017 05:38 am
Its the difference between wishing and believing!
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Reply Sat 5 Dec, 2020 01:08 pm
Wow. Over a decade old.
I'm not sure if you got the answer you were looking for.

Hope is a prospect you don't see.
It can be anything - even something unrealistic, or a fantasy.
For example, you may have a hope of becoming an eagle for a day, and flying to the highest mountain you can get to. Very Happy

Faith - is beyond the prospect to the reality.
It is the actual substance of reality.
Thus faith is like the foundation of hope.
Since the faith is the substance of reality, then the hope based on that faith won't necessarily be fantasy - like flying to the moon... on a broom. Very Happy

To use a simple example.
You may hope to actually fly to the moon - 2000 years ago Smile . You don't see that reality.
However, faith in science perhaps (keep in mind this is an example to try to make it simple), will make your hope bright.
Your hope rests on your faith.

I hope that was understandable.
Reply Mon 7 Dec, 2020 04:40 am
Yeah, probably not much hope of a reply from OP. The OP probably had little faith in getting a real one.

But yours wasn’t at all shabby.
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Reply Mon 7 Dec, 2020 06:16 am
I might hope it does not rain tomorrow without a great degree of confidence in it. And that is the difference.
Hope does not disregard statistics just takes into account small probabilities. Faith does the opposite!
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Frank Apisa
Reply Mon 7 Dec, 2020 09:16 am
I suggest (as often as possible) that "faith" is nothing more than stone-headedness. It is not a virtue.

Faith (as used in a religious or philosophical context) is merely insisting that a particular "belief" (blind guess about something unknown)...is correct.

For instance, some people "believe" (blindly guess) there is a GOD...and by saying they "have faith in that belief"...are merely insisting that their blind guess is correct.

Conversely, some people "believe" (blindly guess) that no gods exist. Often they assert that blind guess as a fact...which is to say, they insist their blind guess is correct.

Some of us simply acknowledge that there are things that are unknown (perhaps even unknowable)...and decline to make a blind guess about them.

That third way seems to me to be the better way to handle those kinds of situations.

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