18
   

What is hope...is there a difference between hope and faith

 
 
Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Dec, 2020 10:58 am
@Frank Apisa,
Touché and bingo!
hightor
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Dec, 2020 11:06 am
@Albuquerque,
Quote:
Oh common for fracks sake you got very well what I meant when I referred to the social superorganism we all belong to...

I don't recall you and I discussing that.
Quote:
Also the need to quote the definition is childish to put it mildly.

Well, I'm sorry. But I never heard anyone use "obey" in the manner you suggested so I thought I should provide a commonly-accepted definition. I don't believe "free will" really came into the discussion.

See you, man! Very Happy
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Dec, 2020 11:09 am
@Albuquerque,
Albuquerque wrote:

Touché and bingo!


Thanks, Al.

Had to get that off my chest.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Dec, 2020 11:16 am
@Frank Apisa,
How many more do ya need?
0 Replies
 
Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Dec, 2020 11:55 am
@hightor,
Do I really have to explain it to you?
The intended use of the word "obey" was never meant to be normal in that context, in fact it was meant to be tricky!
My point was to let you note that when you react to an input you are obeying to the input presence even when you try to dismiss it. And the no free will part was implicit not explicit when one is aware that our reactions and volition are not the product of our conscious thoughts but rather that our conscious thoughts are the N result of our mind state of affairs with our current disposition and information. Such reaction is the output of an input that in fact triggered and commanded the outcome yet to be. It has a name in Philosophy Science and even in Law, the effective cause of something. As such and considering your parameters as a recipient are fixed also your brain response is indeed inescapable at that point in time. You were commanded to "obey" to the input in the way you just did. And no before you come up with the cliché rebuttal that "you are trolling me", NO I AM NOT, I do care with these things and I do tend to have an eye to catch them in the air as they happen. People often naively fail to grasp the level of contradiction on which they fall for traps that a trained mind will gladly reevaluate.
hightor
 
  2  
Reply Mon 21 Dec, 2020 12:17 pm
@Albuquerque,
Quote:
Do I really have to explain it to you?

Apparently. I'm not particularly bright.
Quote:
And no before you come up with the cliché rebuttal that "you are trolling me"...

I hadn't even considered that.
Quote:
...in fact it was meant to be tricky!

In the future, should you and I interact, I will be more receptive to this aspect of your posting style.
Quote:
...I do care with these things and I do tend to have an eye to catch them in the air as they happen.

That's fine, I have nothing against that. I even tend to respond that way myself sometimes.
Quote:
People often naively fail to grasp the level of contradiction on which they fall for traps that a trained mind will gladly reevaluate.

True, but I was in a discussion with Leadfoot and neither of us was operating at the level of your trained mind. People butt into other member's discussions on this site all the time but in this case your input was well beyond the rather shallow parameters of the exchange I was having with Leadfoot. So I didn't feel that it was particularly helpful.
0 Replies
 
Jiggy
 
  0  
Reply Mon 21 Dec, 2020 06:32 pm
That's what faith does for us Frank. It allows us to be sure of what our faith rests on... to have full confidence in what we do not see at present. Thus we speak with conviction... Surety.
What... Do you want me to be like you... faithless? Laughing
I can't do that Frank. While you bask in Egypt, I'll eat my manna. Very Happy
Albuquerque
 
  2  
Reply Tue 22 Dec, 2020 05:56 am
@Jiggy,
So your blind faith is the coin for the manna?
You sound like a smart businessman...although you are not sure what you are buying into.

But hey faith keeps you going right? Walk the walk and seal the deal, go ahead!
If you are unlucky enough a Demi-God might give you the paradise you so much crave...

...personally I wouldn't buy a ticket for such a place even if I was paid a billion dollars. And if I was taken to such a place I would be dragged kicking and swearing!

The worst I could wish you if I was a bad person would be a trillion trillion trillion years in Heaven! Not that you will ever grasp why the whole idea it is a terrible deal...
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Dec, 2020 08:13 am
@Jiggy,
Jiggy wrote:

That's what faith does for us Frank. It allows us to be sure of what our faith rests on... to have full confidence in what we do not see at present. Thus we speak with conviction... Surety.


For a religious person, "faith" is simply insisting that his/her blind guess about the REALITY (they call them "beliefs")...are correct.

Religious faith is nothing more than stone-headedness.

You people do not speak with conviction...you speak like zombies.


Quote:
What... Do you want me to be like you... faithless? Laughing


Not that you should care, but I "want you to be" whatever you want to be.

If you want to make blind guesses about the REALITY...and insist those blind guesses are correct...do so.

You may even be correct.

I certainly do not know if you are.

And the person who blindly guesses that there are NO GODS...may be right.


Quote:
I can't do that Frank. While you bask in Egypt, I'll eat my manna. Very Happy


That is an interesting blind guess about the REALITY. It presupposes a god unworthy of respect or affection, but those are the cards you have been dealt...and those are the cards you have got to play.

Looks like a deuce/seven off suit to me.

Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Dec, 2020 08:16 am
@Albuquerque,
Albuquerque wrote:


So your blind faith is the coin for the manna?
You sound like a smart businessman...although you are not sure what you are buying into.

But hey faith keeps you going right? Walk the walk and seal the deal, go ahead!
If you are unlucky enough a Demi-God might give you the paradise you so much crave...

...personally I wouldn't buy a ticket for such a place even if I was paid a billion dollars. And if I was taken to such a place I would be dragged kicking and swearing!

The worst I could wish you if I was a bad person would be a trillion trillion trillion years in Heaven! Not that you will ever grasp why the whole idea it is a terrible deal...


Another of those times when I am in total agreement with you, Albuquerque.
0 Replies
 
Jiggy
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Dec, 2020 09:57 am
@Albuquerque,
Religious people often think of faith as confidence based on a perceived degree of warrant, while others who are more skeptical of religion tend to think of faith as simply belief without evidence.
Yes. My faith is quite different to yours. I'm quite sure it doesn't lead to disappointment, because it's not blind, as the skeptics hope.
So while you enjoy your short stay in Egypt, I hope you do take time to reflect and consider what the end of a kingdom means for those who put their faith in it.
I haven't given up hope for you though. The 'storm clouds are brewing', and there's 'lightning flashing across the sky', but you still have time to run for the hills.
Kicking and screaming won't help once the 'downpour' starts.

One very strong evidence for faith, is Bible prophecy.
Since we are seeing Bible prophecies being fulfilled now, and we have seen them fulfilled in the past, then our faith in seeing future prophecies fulfilled in the future, cannot be truthfully called blind. Daniel 2:44, 45
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/dd/e7/3e/dde73e4095bacd3f02ccc1788b970863.gif
It's the blind who cannot see.
It's entirely up to you where you put your faith, and hope.
0 Replies
 
Jiggy
 
  0  
Reply Tue 22 Dec, 2020 10:02 am
@Frank Apisa,
You are mistaken Frank.
Imagine a blind man telling someone they are blind, when they are not able to see what the person is seeing.
Do you see that picture?
You can't claim someone is blind just because you can't see, and are feeling around to find your way. The wise thing to do is ask for some guidance...not true?
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Dec, 2020 10:48 am
@Jiggy,
Jiggy wrote:


You are mistaken Frank.
Imagine a blind man telling someone they are blind, when they are not able to see what the person is seeing.
Do you see that picture?



Please continue with your blind guesses about the REALITY of existence if you must...

...and also continue your insistence that your blind guesses make sense and have to be correct. They seem to serve you in some way...although they don't really seem to make you any happier or content.

Quote:
You can't claim someone is blind just because you can't see, and are feeling around to find your way. The wise thing to do is ask for some guidance...not true?


I can see; I am not blind. And I am willing to acknowledge that I do not know the REALITY...nor can I make any meaningful guesses about it, because ALL of the evidence is ambiguous.

I do agree with that last part, though...which is why I am offering you some guidance. You may not be blind...but your guesses are blind guesses nonetheless.

You could easily grow up and refrain from making blind guesses.

I am rooting for you to do so.
Jiggy
 
  0  
Reply Tue 22 Dec, 2020 12:11 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Ciao. Very Happy
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Dec, 2020 02:16 pm
@Jiggy,
Be sure to dust off your sandals on the way out of Apisa town.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Dec, 2020 02:31 pm
@Leadfoot,
And make sure he takes his massive bollocks with him, because they’re worthy of Buster Gonad.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Dec, 2020 02:33 pm
@izzythepush,
Jiggy will appreciate the added compliment.
0 Replies
 
Jiggy
 
  0  
Reply Wed 23 Dec, 2020 10:56 am
@Leadfoot,
That won't be necessary Lead.
I'm not here to preach to those who have a job to do on these sites. They are doing their job.
I'm here to answer questions.
If you notice, Frank did not attack the explanation I used with faith in science. He brought in God instead.
It's clear to me, why.

Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Dec, 2020 12:24 pm
@Jiggy,
Jiggy wrote:

That won't be necessary Lead.
I'm not here to preach to those who have a job to do on these sites. They are doing their job.
I'm here to answer questions.
If you notice, Frank did not attack the explanation I used with faith in science. He brought in God instead.
It's clear to me, why.




What, pray tell, did you say about "faith in science" that I did not attack...or at least engage.

I will do so.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Dec, 2020 06:06 am
@Jiggy,
Quote:
If you notice, Frank did not attack the explanation I used with faith in science. He brought in God instead.

I get that a lot here.
Was just curious if they got the scriptural reference or thought I was insulting you.

Cheers
0 Replies
 
 

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