I Am Outraged and You Should Be Too!

@wandeljw,

The more I read about this case the more upset I get. She expressed no remorse? I have never had children and I know I cannot even begin to imagine the bond of parent and child but a mother killing her own children and having no remorse is not something I can understand whatsoever.

0 Replies

It happens occasionally. I 've known my cats to do it.
The police will take care of it.

Years ago, there was a nasty old Italian on the corner;
a retired plummer. He murdered his son (in his 40s)
because their respective dogs had fought earlier in the day.

David

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This reminds me of a morning radio show segement in Northern Cali and Reno,
http://www.mefeedia.com/watch/32412480
Its not bad news unless it happens to you!

1 Reply

@GoshisDead,

GoshisDead wrote:

This reminds me of a morning radio show segement in Northern Cali and Reno,
http://www.mefeedia.com/watch/32412480
Its not bad news unless it happens to you!

What is wrong with people? Parents killing their kids, kids killing their parents, aunts, uncles, nieces, etc. What a sad state this world is in.

1 Reply

@Arella Mae,

Quote:

What is wrong with people? Parents killing their kids, kids killing their parents, aunts, uncles, nieces, etc. What a sad state this world is in.

You think this is something new in the world?

Sadly it is not.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

Quote:
What is wrong with people? Parents killing their kids, kids killing their parents, aunts, uncles, nieces, etc. What a sad state this world is in.

You think this is something new in the world?

Sadly it is not.

No, it's not new but I would definitely say it is a whole lot more prevalent than it has been in the past.

Switching gears here Bill, you brought up about her being black and unattractive and probably (paraphrasing here) would reap a stiffer penalty than an attractive white woman. So, what about Casey Anthony? Nearly the whole country has her convicted. Is this a special case? I'm interested in your thoughts on this.

3 Replies

@Arella Mae,

Quote:

No, it's not new but I would definitely say it is a whole lot more prevalent than it has been in the past.

I do not think so when I was young we had 15 minutes to 30 minutes of national and world news not the 24 hours news channels and so did not hear of such happening if outside the local area.

Newspapers readers might or might not see a short article about such a case.

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@Arella Mae,

Quote:

So, what about Casey Anthony? Nearly the whole country has her convicted. Is this a special case? I'm interested in your thoughts on this.

I never said that someone would not be found guilty because of their looks I said the punishment is likely to be far less.

I do not see Casey being given the death penalty but I surely can see this black mother being given it by a jury unless her lawyers are able to made a deal to get that off the table.

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@Arella Mae,

Quote:

No, it's not new but I would definitely say it is a whole lot more prevalent than it has been in the past.

Thousands of hits of women killing their children using google news archives in the past.

Here is a brief sample below……..

Ocala Star-Banner - Google News Archive - Oct 4, 1976
PHILADELPHIA —Fred Dixon, off in Korea with the Army, knew something was wrong with his wife, Melinda. but he feared she would kill herself if he took their ... Troubled Woman Kills Children, Takes Own Life . - The Bulletin - Google News Archive
Mother Tosses Kids . - Lakeland Ledger - Google News Archive
Kentucky New Era - Argus-Press - All 8 related - Related web pages

Ocala Star-Banner - Google News Archive - Jul 18, 1974
JACKSONVILLE, Fla. Hazel Johnston wrote to a funeral home, laid out her three children's best clothes on the living room couch and placed a single white ... Mother Kills Three Children, Takes Own Life . - Rome News-Tribune - Google News Archive
Mother Readies Shrouds, Plans Rites, Kills 3... - Los Angeles Times - ProQuest Archiver (Pay-Per-View)
All 7 related - Related web pages

Pay-Per-View - Hartford Courant - ProQuest Archiver - Aug 24, 1965
DECATUR, Ga. (AP) -- Police said a young mother shot her Ihree small daughters lo death Monday, then wounded herself twice in an unsuccessful suicide . ...

MIDLAND, Pa. A 24- year-old mother, who had been drinking and quarreling with her husband, shot to death four of her children early yesterday u they slept, ... Young Mother Of Five Kills 4 Of 5 Children; No... - Gettysburg Times - Google News Archive
All 15 related - Related web pages

UPPER ARLINGTON, Ohio, Dec. 9 (AP) Patricia Bolin, a 40-year-old mother of three , used a 22-caliber gun to kill her husband and two of her children before ... Mother Kills Self, Spouse, 2 Children . - News And Courier - Google News Archive
Housewife Kills Family, Sell . - Daytona Beach Morning... - Google News Archive

Pittsburgh Post-Gazette - Google News Archive - Apr 23, 1969
NEMOURS. France. April 22 (AP)A mother confessed to police today that she had killed seven of tier own infant children over the past 15 years. ...

Reading Eagle - Google News Archive - Apr 8, 1963
El Paso, Tex., April 8 A despondent mother and her three small children were found shot to death in ;their El Paso home yesterday. Detective Sgt. Bob Barron ... Mother Kills 3 Children. Self . - Schenectady Gazette - Google News Archive
Mother Kills Three Children, Shoots Herself - Hartford Courant - ProQuest Archiver (Pay-Per-View)
All 3 related - Related web pages

1 Reply

@BillRM,

I have been hearing for quite awhile now how "these things" are not happening more and more frequently, it's just that we are finally hearing about them. I don't buy it. I think it's quite evident they are happening more and more often.

Here is an interesting link about mothers that kill:

http://www.expertclick.com/NewsReleaseWire/ReleaseDetails.aspx?ID=10548&CFID=4868381&CFTOKEN=14508327

I am going to do a bit of research and see what I can come up with for statistics.

2 Replies

Here is a links to some homicide statistics:

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0873729.html#axzz0x5LLPaeq

http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/library/graphs/crime_boom_19501987.htm

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@Arella Mae,

Quote:

have been hearing for quite awhile now how "these things" are not happening more and more frequently, it's just that we are finally hearing about them. I don't buy it. I think it's quite evident they are happening more and more often.

Sorry but I had seen zero HARD evidence that mothers are murdering their children more often now then in the past

A fast Google news checks such as I had done will produce plenty of stories dating back for a hundred years of such sad events happening.

As far as overall homicide rate that had been on the down swing also in the last ten years or so. This rate had more to do with the average age of the population then most others factors from my readings in any case.

We do live in a 24 hours channel news environment now and we are going to be made aware of such murders where before it was a hit and miss whether we hear of them.

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@Arella Mae,

Quote:

I have been hearing for quite awhile now how "these things" are not happening more and more frequently, it's just that we are finally hearing about them. I don't buy it. I think it's quite evident they are happening more and more often.

Here is more stories of this happening dating back to the 1890s!!!!!!!

If anything it look to be more common in the past then now.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Pay-Per-View - Chicago Tribune - ProQuest Archiver - Jun 15, 1893
The wife of a welltodo farmer killed herself and four children today and tried to kill the rest of the family at Pleasant Hill Pleasant Hill is on the ... Related web pages

New York Times - Oct 2, 1897
Karoline Rivinius, wife of Robert Rivinius a soldier stationed at West Point, killed herself and her four children with gas in the West Shore Hotel, ... All 2 related - Related web pages

New York Times - Sep 29, 1899
Mrs. Rheiner made a statement to the police, in which she admitted killing the children, and said she wished she was with them. She confessed to hav4ng had ... Related web pages

Montreal Gazette - Google News Archive - Aug 2, 1943
year-old mother beat two of her young children to death Saturday, drowned a third in a bucket, and then hanged herself, Coroner mcdonald reported. ...

$3.95 - New York Times - May 4, 1953
The estranged wife of a former Rutgers University football star killed her four children by carbon monoxide poisoning in the family station wagon here early ... Mother Kills Four Children . - Pittsburgh Post-Gazette - Google News Archive

Pay-Per-View - Chicago Tribune - ProQuest Archiver - Jul 24, 1937
---Grieved by her lack of discipline over her four children and the fear they would contract her own intes- tinal ailment, a sick mother strangled and ... Mother Kills 4 Then Herself . - The Day - Google News Archive
Late Flashes . - Gettysburg Times - Google News Archive
All 5 related - Related web pages

Pay-Per-View - The Sun - ProQuest Archiver - Mar 9, 1954
Waterville, Maine, March 8 (AP). A 24-year-old mother drowned her three young children in their home and then attempted suicide today, police said, ...

Pay-Per-View - The Sun - ProQuest Archiver - Sep 9, 1938
Old Westbury, NY, Sept. 8 (AP.-A mother, crazed by the fear that her two children had inherited her ill&cut health, killed them today by ing their throats ... KILLS HER 2 CHILDREN, THEN TRIES SUICIDE; Mother,... - New York Times ($3.95)
Mother Fearing For 2 Children Kills Them Both . - Sarasota Herald - Google News Archive

1 Reply

@BillRM,

Bill, I never said it did not happen. I am saying it happens with more frequency than it did in years past.

1 Reply

@Arella Mae,

Quote:

Bill, I never said it did not happen. I am saying it happens with more frequency than it did in years past.

And what do you base this feeling on?

There are thousands of hits on stories of women harming/killings their children in the good old days using Google news archieve feature.

If anything Googling give the impression that it was more common not less common in the past.

I suggest you try googling the subject yourself.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

I posted a link earlier in the thread that had statistics. Maybe you didn’t see it?

Quote:

The Numbers
Children under the age of 5 in the United States are more likely to be killed by their parents than anyone else. Contrary to popular mythology, they are rarely killed by a sex-crazed stranger. FBI crime statistics show that in 1999 parents were responsible for 57 percent of these murders, with family friends and acquaintances accounting for another 30 percent and other family members accounting for 8 percent. Crime statistics further reveal that of the children under 5 killed from 1976 to 1999, 30 percent were murdered by their mothers while 31 percent were killed by their fathers. And while the strangers, acquaintances, and other family members who kill children skew heavily toward males (as does the entire class of murderers), children are as likely to be murdered by their fathers as by their mothers.

http://www.slate.com/id/2063086

Quote:

The murder of children is considered a crime in most societies; they are perceived within their communities and the state at large as being vulnerable, and therefore especially susceptible to abduction and murder. The protection of children from abuse and possible death often involves disturbing the child's family structure, as tenuous as this may be. In 2008, there were 951 child (under 18 years) homicides in the United States. Of those killed 870 were male, while only 80 were female, and 1 was unknown.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_murder

Quote:

Historically, the families survival is pivotal to the sacrifice of weaker children or female children. Infanticide has always soared in counties riddled with famine or during political unrest. African women on board slave ships killed their children. The AMOUNT OF THESE CASES WILL CONTINUE TO GROW EACH YEAR until societal norms maintain that this is not rare behavior. Mother love is not universal. All women are not natural loving mothers. Nor does motherhood trump all illnesses and psychosis.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/14935/why_some_mothers_kill_their_children_pg2.html?cat=17

Quote:

Women who Murder their Children
As a former FBI Profiler, I know that on the average three to five children are killed by their parents every day, making child homicide one of the leading causes of death for children under the age of four. At least 200 women kill their children in the U.S. every year, yet we are still surprised when incidents of “filicide,” the killing of one’s own child, occur in our society. Of the almost 50 women on death row in the prisons across America, at least a dozen are there for killing their own child.
http://clintvanzandt.newsvine.com/_news/2010/08/08/4846732-mothers-who-murder-their-children

This shows that murder, on a whole, has increased since 1950:

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0873729.html#axzz0x9gPhNju

This chart definitely shows a rise in murder.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0004888.html#axzz0x9j3CFQg

How many school shootings happened in the ‘50’s? ‘60’s? I doubt you can disagree there were very, very few compared to today’s times.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0777958.html#axzz0x9gr5xIu

Bill, if you can provide some links to statistical information dating back in the ‘50’s or so I’d sure like that. I must not be as good at googling as I thought!

In the 1950’s, ‘60’s and even into the 1970’s people felt rather comfortable in not locking their doors, cars, etc. Women didn’t have to worry so much about being raped in a parking lot, etc. Can you honestly tell me this is the same in today’s time? I don’t believe anyone being honest can say it is just as safe now as it was back then. That includes children not being safe from their parents!

Seriously, decades back, how many parents snapped and killed their children? Today's studies show between 3 and 5 children A DAY, EVERYDAY, in the U.S. are killed by their parents.

If you can provide statistics showing it was the same decades back, I’d be more than willing to check them out.

5 Replies

@Arella Mae,

I did look at your links and once more all violence crime in the US of any nature had been going down not up for the last ten years.

So whatever the current rate of child murders happen to be is beside the point the point is had it increase over the decades and the answer seem to be no it in fact had been going down not up.

The overall murder ratio is down in the last ten years and once more nothing in your links have given had challenge that.

There is not repeat no indication of any kind that child murder rate is increasing in the US either.

You had posted that it is your position that all these rates are increasing and I see zero in your link to show that is true.

Infants killing in China of girl are up but not in the US or any other Western country that I am aware of.

1 Reply

@Arella Mae,

Quote:

In the 1950’s, ‘60’s and even into the 1970’s people felt rather comfortable in not locking their doors, cars, etc. Women didn’t have to worry so much about being raped in a parking lot, etc. Can you honestly tell me this is the same in today’s time? I don’t believe anyone being honest can say it is just as safe now as it was back then. That includes children not being safe from their parents!

Lord what people feel and what is true have little connection for exampe the rate of rape had gone down from 2.9 per thousands to now .4 per thousands over the last ten years but I am fairly sure most women feel less safe now from rapes then ten years ago.

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@Arella Mae,

We are now are the lowest crime rate since 1970!!!!!!!!!!!!

With the murder rate at the lowest since 1965!!!!!!!!!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States

The crime rate is measured by the number of offenses being reported per 100,000 people. While the crime rate had risen sharply in the late 1960s and early 1970s, bringing it to a constant all-time high during much of the 1980s, it has declined steeply since 1993. One hypothesis suggests a causal link between legalized abortion and the drop in crime during the 1990s.[1] Another possibility sometimes suggested is the introduction of the Three Strikes Law, which was first passed by Washington state in 1993, providing that felony offenders who committed a third offence receive life imprisonment. Other states that passed Three Strikes Laws include California, Colorado, Connecticut, Indiana, Kansas, Nevada, North Dakota, Arkansas, Georgia, and Maryland. Research has not borne out this speculation however. In a 2005 policy brief, An examination of the impact of 3-Strike laws 10 years after their enactment, Justice Policy Institute reported that analysis of ten years of FBI Uniform Crime Report data found that Three Strikes states fared no better than states that did not adopt strikes laws. The largest non-strike state, New York, experienced a 53.9% decrease in violent crime from 1993-2002. The largest strike state, California, experienced a 44.9% decrease in violent crime during the same years. Strike states had slightly better declines in serious crime rates (26.8% vs. 22.3%) driven by slightly greater declines in property crime (25.9% vs. 20.4%). Non-strike states had marginally better declines in violent crime (34.3% vs. 33.0%) and greater declines in homicides (43.9% vs. 38.2%).

In 2004 America's crime rate was roughly the same as in 1970, with the homicide rate being at its lowest level since 1965. Overall, the national crime rate was 4982 crimes per 100,000 residents, down from 4852 crimes per 100,000 residents thirty years earlier in 1974 (-17.6%).[2]

It is quite common for crime in American cities to be highly concentrated in a few, often economically disadvantaged areas. For example, San Mateo County, California had a population of approximately 707,000 and 17 homicides in 2001. 6 of these 17 homicides took place in poor, largely Black and Hispanic East Palo Alto, which had a population of roughly 30,000. So, while East Palo Alto accounted for a mere 4.2% of the population, about one-third of the homicides took place there.[4] According to the FBI, in 2008 14,180 people were murdered in America.[5]

Ira M. Leonard has calculated that during the 20th century, more Americans were murdered by fellow Americans than soldiers died on active duty during the First World War, Second World War, Korean War and the Vietnam

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@Arella Mae,

Quote:

In the 1950’s, ‘60’s and even into the 1970’s people felt rather comfortable in not locking their doors, cars, etc. Women didn’t have to worry so much about being raped in a parking lot, etc. Can you honestly tell me this is the same in today’s time? I don’t believe anyone being honest can say it is just as safe now as it was back then. That includes children not being safe from their parents!

You're suffering from the fallacy of assuming that because you didn't KNOW about things, they didn't happen. There's plenty of evidence that just as many murders, robberies and rapes took place then - they just were unreported, there was no national news, no 24 hour news channels, less statistics kept.

Cycloptichorn

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