Critical thinking and political matters.

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

It doesn't matter how many books one owns or reads; it's how much one learns from them. "Taboo" is a subjective label depending on the period and culture it applies to. All human groups and cultures are descended from "primitive peoples." Three thousand years ago, Egypt was considered one of the most advanced civilizations on this planet. During the time of Roman Egypt, it was common for brothers to take their sister as bride and raise a family with them. Laws against incest were not followed. Even during early Greek mythology, brother and sister had relations, and their gods were of the human form. Asian royals and emperors were also incestuous, which goes to show many cultures practiced it - even at high levels of royalty.

Although there are many laws against incest in many countries, its citizens break the laws and still marry close relatives.

Your reading materials have failed you.

I am going to be a complete ass and call you out on a red herring (referring back to Ken's original post some 30 odd pages ago).

You say that ""Taboo" is a subjective label depending on the period and culture it applies to." and then proceed from your conclusion (which needs premisses mind you) to another entirely different argument with an entirely different conclusion! You then go on to say the rest of the following:

"Three thousand years ago, Egypt was considered one of the most advanced civilizations on this planet. During the time of Roman Egypt, it was common for brothers to take their sister as bride and raise a family with them. Laws against incest were not followed. Even during early Greek mythology, brother and sister had relations, and their gods were of the human form. Asian royals and emperors were also incestuous, which goes to show many cultures practiced it - even at high levels of royalty.

Although there are many laws against incest in many countries, its citizens break the laws and still marry close relatives. "

The two do not follow from one another. How do we go from ""Taboo" is a subjective label depending on the period and culture it applies to." to "Although there are many laws against incest in many countries, its citizens break the laws and still marry close relatives."

You are not even making an argument talking about taboos being a subjective label in a period or culture; instead you are talking about citizens breaking the law against incest!

Also what is a subjective label?

Perhaps I should call you out on a non sequitur while I'm at it. So my question to you is: what argument are you trying to make? Pick one. I do not mind which. But pick one.

Your reasoning has failed you.

"Enough." -Immanuel Kant

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@Ding an Sich,

A subjective label is one where one culture does something as normal while another calls it a taboo. It's the practice that counts; not what people believe to be right or wrong. That's because most cultures practiced incestuous relations.

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@kennethamy,

kennethamy wrote:

Ahab wrote:

It is good to hear that Feisal Abdul Rauf is still moving ahead with plans to build this community center.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/08/opinion/08mosque.html?_r=1

Yes, he seem to be a man even decency will not deter.

We are quite fortunate to live in a country such as ours. Our civil rights are not denied simply on the basis that some people find the practice of such rights to be offensive.

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@kennethamy,

kennethamy wrote:

Ahab wrote:

It is good to hear that Feisal Abdul Rauf is still moving ahead with plans to build this community center.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/08/opinion/08mosque.html?_r=1

Yes, he seem to be a man even bigotry and hate will not deter.

There, I fixed that for you.

Cycloptichorn

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@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

A subjective label is one where one culture does something as normal while another calls it a taboo. It's the practice that counts; not what people believe to be right or wrong. That's because most cultures practiced incestuous relations.

Prove that; because the incest taboo is universal, and only where royalty were thought of as dieties was incest practiced to any extent among them

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@Fido,

Who was there to voice or enforce that so-called taboo against the royals of most countries that practiced incest?

Name me one.

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@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

Who was there to voice or enforce that so-called taboo against the royals of most countries that practiced incest?

Name me one.

Nature alone enforced that taboo when no others would... Inbred houses inevitably failed...

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@Fido,

Taboo is a human description. You fell off your own cliff.

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@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

Taboo is a human description. You fell off your own cliff.

It was a taboo because nature ruled against that behavior, and if ever people forgot, nature would remind them... Look at the plague in Oedipus Tyranus... And how it is described as something not even cattle would do... People understood that much about their nature, that disease followed the act, so the act was thought cursed by the gods..

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@Fido,

Human behavior goes beyond what is considered "natural" behavior. Nature doesn't rule man when it involves incest, rape, or other inhuman behavior.

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@cicerone imposter,

there's no such thing as "natural" behavior, there are no "rules of nature" there may very well be "common" behavior but not "natural" behavior. This may sound like a semantic issue but it's not; it's really a misunderstanding of the concept of "natural"

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@dyslexia,

What I mean is that whatever man does is "natural." If it happens, it's natural.

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@cicerone imposter,

yes, I agree. (including psychotic behavior) it was Aristotle that started the idea of "pathological" that has taken over western thought.

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@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

What I mean is that whatever man does is "natural." If it happens, it's natural.

This is not true... All larger societies for example are un-natural... You must understand the word and its nuances... What is natural, like nations, natural societies, natural forms all spring from a common mother, and from a time when all societies were matralinear.... So natural comes from natal, naval, the connection between mother and child... In all other respects, people are unnatural... Gorrillas build nests, crap in them without regard and build another the next night, and that is natural... Our forms allow us to keep our natures because we cannot change our basic natures, and have not... That is; Through our forms, physical and social, psychological and moral, we have adapted, rather than evolved, to live almost anywhere on the planet... In addition, because we have understood our natures as an abstraction, a form in itself, we have regulated our behavior so that where ever people have went, they have not evolved into another species... We can breed anywhere without producing sterile hybreds, and all because we understood the consequences of incest abstractly...But, for the most part there is nothing natural about our behavior... Instead, it is cultural, and culture overcomes natural instinct every time... Culture is the voice of knowledge and reason... Nature babbles... Culture speaks...

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@Fido,

Wrong again: whatever man does is natural on this planet. That's why it happens. Your interpretation of natural is limited to your perceptions. My natural has no limit; if it happened, it's natural. Culture is a man-made creation. It just so happened that homo sapiens are social animals no different than our cousins, the other primates - but especially the chimps. Their DNA is 95% of our's.

We are all descendants from Africa. Evolution just happened to favor homo sapiens to advance in our ability to create language, and learn from our good and bad decisions along the way.

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@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

Wrong again: whatever man does is natural on this planet. That's why it happens. Your interpretation of natural is limited to your perceptions. My natural has no limit; if it happened, it's natural. Culture is a man-made creation. It just so happened that homo sapiens are social animals no different than our cousins, the other primates - but especially the chimps. Their DNA is 95% of our's.

We are all descendants from Africa. Evolution just happened to favor homo sapiens to advance in our ability to create language, and learn from our good and bad decisions along the way.

Read some damned anthropology... Almost all mankind does it does to draw a line between self and nature...Is it natural to cook food, even breast milk??? Is circumcision, male and female, natural??? How about buggery??? How about superhighways, skyscrappers, moonshots, and icu's... How about all our forms/ideas/notions/concepts... If they are so natural, where are all the animals using calculus and computers... It takes more than doing it to make it natural... I will say that you are natural... A natural idiot... Go to the morgue and buy a better brain forchrisesake...

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@Fido,

To the extent those things happened by humans, it's natural. What you are trying to do is apply your own sense of values to human action which limits your idea about natural. Natural in its rawest form can be disgusting, cruel, anti-social, and all the negatives we can think of. There were cultures that ate other humans. That's the reality of the human animal.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

To the extent those things happened by humans, it's natural. What you are trying to do is apply your own sense of values to human action which limits your idea about natural. Natural in its rawest form can be disgusting, cruel, anti-social, and all the negatives we can think of. There were cultures that ate other humans. That's the reality of the human animal.

Not true... Try to understand the meaning of the word natural which in its original sense means coming from ones mother, from natal, or navel.... A nation is not a place but a peaple... Even the word Naive comes from that root, that expresses the primal connection between mother and child and harkens back to an age where all societies were matralinear, and people spoke their mother tongue and lived in their mother land... Only with civilizations does patriotism come to the fore...

So natural has to do with that first relationship, which is a shared relationship with ones whole nation and their Alma Mater; their soul mother... Any form tending to attack or break down ones natural relationships is un-natural or anti natural...Law is definetly un-natural, and it is so because it attempts to supplant the natural bonds of affection and achieve the same goals with threats and coercion... And I know it is common to talk of nature in general and macro nature... To talk of our specific nature and our natural relationships is not the same as talking of all of nature.

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@Fido,

That word, naval, also connects homo sapiens to other primates. Humans still do dastardly things that includes wars that kill other humans by the tens of thousands. That's all "natural."

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@Fido,

fido, you present an interesting understanding of words/language and an even more interesting understanding of philosophy. I would say your understanding is unique. Are you at all familiar with the concept of "unique?"

1 Reply

Critical thinking and political matters.

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