25
   

Critical thinking and political matters.

 
 
IRFRANK
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Sep, 2010 08:47 am
@Fido,
Changing your interaction with the world is not changing your world. Yes, an understanding of that process does benefit the actor but is it just a false sense of superiority? As a buddhist, my response is to minimize that interaction, do no harm, and accept what I get as enough.



IRFRANK
 
  2  
Reply Wed 15 Sep, 2010 08:49 am
@cicerone imposter,
agree 100%

Unfortunately the spin doctors know their craft well.

My concern is that all this short term bickering is keeping us from addressing the real long term issues that will hurt us soon enough.
0 Replies
 
IRFRANK
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Sep, 2010 08:57 am
I've been watching Charlie Rose and it's a shame his show doesn't have the following that Glenn Beck has, but it's understandable. He had Peter Orszag on last night and he had some pretty intelligent things to say about the tax cuts. Pretty sobering things too. All the less govt, lower taxes republicans should be made to watch it.

cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Sep, 2010 10:08 am
@IRFRANK,
IRF, Buddhists believe that pain and suffering are all part of living. That's the primary reason, buddhists believe in "do no harm." It's about the self, not other people. If all lived by that belief, there would be less suffering in this world. We also know from factual history, that most other religions of the world have brought about pain and suffering for other humans.

It shouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what is right and what is wrong from this perspective.

Look at what christians are doing against Muslims in our own country. They do not know what they do; they show their hate and distrust of a whole group of another religion based on their own bigotry and ignorance.

I know there is a phrase in the bible that teaches "love thy neighbor as thyself." Christians don't listen to their own teachings. Their hate shows loud and clear.
rabel22
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Sep, 2010 10:18 am
@IRFRANK,
Do you have an address for last nights Rose show. I know I should find it myself but I am a computer idiot.
rabel22
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Sep, 2010 10:24 am
@cicerone imposter,
C I, it isent religion but PEOPLE who pervert religious beliefs to be self serving. There is a biblical phrase that is even more to the point which is "do unto others as you would want them to do to unto you."
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Sep, 2010 10:40 am
@rabel22,
I understand all that, but it seems people who claim religion teaches them morals misses the whole point of their religion.

They live with this conflict without any cause for self-examination. Why?
rabel22
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Sep, 2010 10:48 am
@cicerone imposter,
Stupidity and a lack of ability to put oneself in others shoes. No empithy.
0 Replies
 
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Sep, 2010 11:30 am
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

I understand all that, but it seems people who claim religion teaches them morals misses the whole point of their religion.

They live with this conflict without any cause for self-examination. Why?

Religion uses morality and is supported by morality... It is not about morals, but about a spiritual relationship with a supreme being; and judging from the sacrifices humanity has traditionally made for power, or for protection from their gods, it is not all for any purpose that can be called good...
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Sep, 2010 12:37 pm
@Fido,
Not so fast, kemosabe; what's this "religion uses morality bull ****? Show me evidence that it does. Can you say "mosque at ground zero?"
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Sep, 2010 02:17 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Not so fast, kemosabe; what's this "religion uses morality bull ****? Show me evidence that it does. Can you say "mosque at ground zero?"

Me no speak with forked tongue white eye... Islam would not have stood a chance among the Arabs or surrounding people if it did not support their feud mentality and honor socieity justice... Even christianity which picked up most pagan celebrations whole and incorporated them into its calender, symbols intact did not at first attack the most obnoxious customs of the tribes like blood feud, and child marriage, but quietly toiled against them for generations... In addition, by first converting the chiefs, and by supporting the chief's power over his people by making his peace more inviolable they made an allie of him...
When Christianity came to the new world they found the world ready made for them... Sacrifice for community, even to the point of death was next to vengeance, the highest of virtues... Jesus was just a good old boy to them...The people were already moral, and primitives are the most moral of people because morality was essential to their survival, and they could not survive immorality... Christianity seems to support that morality, but by doing so enjoys the benefit of the people who cannot live without morality... They would have made no headway with people offering immorality because that equals sickness for individuals and death for communities...
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Sep, 2010 02:39 pm
@Fido,
I'll admit first that I do not read through your whole post, because you seem to misstate facts in your first paragraph. You said
Quote:
customs of the tribes like blood feud, and child marriage, blah, blah, blah...


"Blood feud" has been going on since homo sapiens evolved into what we now call humans. As for "child marriage," many cultures life spans were less than 40 years. If they waited on marriage until what we now deem as a good marrying age, their population will dangerously decrease.

Did you know that the Virgin Mary was about 12 to 14 years old when she "married" Joseph? There are records of children marrying as young as 8 years old in many cultures.

IRFRANK
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Sep, 2010 02:49 pm
@rabel22,
Just go to

http://www.charlierose.com/

0 Replies
 
IRFRANK
 
  2  
Reply Wed 15 Sep, 2010 02:57 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Being judgmental is not part of my desired behavior, but I will do so anyway.

One observation is that many people's beliefs are very superficial. Their behavior shows this. They hear the words but do not practice what is taught.

I think of the phrase, cafeteria Catholic. Meaning, take what you want and leave what you don't. I don't see how one can expect salvation from this path. I've heard Catholic's joke about this like it was an accepted practice.

One of the world's biggest tragedies is the constant struggle between religions and the seemingly overwhelming human tendency toward violence.

IRFRANK
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Sep, 2010 03:00 pm
@Fido,
Fido,

Buddhism is not about a supreme being. It is not taught from fear, but from the point of view of "here is the path". I would agree that it is selfish at it's root, but what else is there? Is the rest not allusion?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Sep, 2010 03:07 pm
@IRFRANK,
My observations about humans mirrors yours. They never seem to practice what they preach, and are totally blind to their own hate and destruction of humanity.

Instead of "I love everybody," they select different groups for their scorn.

IRFRANK
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Sep, 2010 08:07 pm
@cicerone imposter,
I found out a lot of answers about what my behavior should be in Buddhism. It is about the self and about how to stop causing your own suffering.

"Awakening the Buddha Within" by Lama Surya Das rang the bell for me.

I'm not a missionary, just offering. Buddhists don't try to convert people, but if one asks.

There are all types of humans, of all faiths and beliefs. The idea that if the other people would just see things my way, all would be well, is too common.
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Sep, 2010 09:26 pm
@IRFRANK,
Charlie Rose offers an entirely different program than glenn beck. Rose has guests who are people who have accomplished things in their lives, from entertaining us to saving us from diseases. The program is much too real for beck fans.
0 Replies
 
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Sep, 2010 09:39 pm
@IRFRANK,
IRFRANK wrote:

Being judgmental is not part of my desired behavior, but I will do so anyway.

One observation is that many people's beliefs are very superficial. Their behavior shows this. They hear the words but do not practice what is taught.

I think of the phrase, cafeteria Catholic. Meaning, take what you want and leave what you don't. I don't see how one can expect salvation from this path. I've heard Catholic's joke about this like it was an accepted practice.

One of the world's biggest tragedies is the constant struggle between religions and the seemingly overwhelming human tendency toward violence.


Religions have been behind much violence and in countenancing injustice they make violence all the more certain.... And even violence as a word needs redefinition since much that is violent in result is slow in action... What is it to take the means of support from a person or the food out of their children's mouths and people suffer want, privation, or starvation, learn frustation and suffer their own feelings of hate and its twin, fear... What does it matter if the crimes they suffer are blessed or made legal... The inhumanity is all the same... So violence should not be a matter of speed but of result, or intent...

You know, I might well be described as a cafateria Catholic, and that might be kind... But no matter how far I stray I know my Holy Mother Church will always keep the light on for me... And I don't think they expect any different... They do what they have to do and I do what I have to do... I am not following some Hitler Youth Nazi Pope anywhere; but I do forgive... I have spent time on my knees till the floor was beating on my brain helping my mother to pray for a miracle... That is my mother's church and that will by my church till they excommunicate me, or I leave feet first... And not because they are right, but in spite of thier being wrong... Like my buddy says: The Church gave me a good education and a bad attitude... If you want to know every nun who ever taught me see the Penguin in the Blues Brothers... My home town was named after St. Ignatius de Loyala, a storm trooper of the first order...And if I ever showed signs of being educable, I would have loved a Jesuit college... But nothing what ever would make me better than the half assed catholic I am today because their feudal organization represents a feudal age of thinking, where wealth rules, and dictates to the serfs their holy will... They do not know it, but I am going to the democracy of heaven, or not...
0 Replies
 
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Sep, 2010 10:11 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

I'll admit first that I do not read through your whole post, because you seem to misstate facts in your first paragraph. You said
Quote:
customs of the tribes like blood feud, and child marriage, blah, blah, blah...


"Blood feud" has been going on since homo sapiens evolved into what we now call humans. As for "child marriage," many cultures life spans were less than 40 years. If they waited on marriage until what we now deem as a good marrying age, their population will dangerously decrease.

Did you know that the Virgin Mary was about 12 to 14 years old when she "married" Joseph? There are records of children marrying as young as 8 years old in many cultures.



I guess I could dig up the quotation from the book from which I took the idea, and give it to you as written... I can't say I know anything about the Virgin Mary, and every virgin I met I regret... I agree that blood feud has been going on since the dawn of time, and only because it worked as a deterant... People found they could not live without their honor and could barely live with it, and if some one took one of yours, you took some of theirs until everyone got together and worked out the terms of peace... The difference between that time and ours was that then the level of violence was low level while be often nearly constant... Without justice being at the end of every spear point or arrow, injustice grows and grows until it spills over into wars taking millions, men women and children, innocent and guilty alike... No technological progress could be made, no courts, cathedrals, or universities could be built with everyone seeking justice and every one on their guard against it... But it selected for a superior human being, one both brave and intelligent, and took the slow and the dim witted... Today, it is such rejects who survive our wars, and the fittest die... Our words moot, and doom, and thing point to the period of time when each man was his own cop, and judge and jury; but peace was also in their hands... It made life perilous, and most people welcomed law and the social contract; but they gave up the high point of human freedom for a promise that has never been fulfilled... And self government and the local administration of law became a thing of the past...
 

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