In what grade did you learn to....

Why are they still teaching cursive.... I never use it.

Teaching kids in the 2nd or 3rd grade how to touch type would be a far better use of the time.

4 Replies

@ebrown p,

They do that too. (Not extensively and not sure if it's part of the curriculum, but there was some instruction.)

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@ebrown p,

The philosphy in my daughters' school is that it is better to learn to write cursive younger - as you tend to use it more in the younger years (ie writing papers, etc.). As you get older - typing, printing becomes more important - filling out forms, etc. And they do have typing in computer classes as well.

I was recently found out - through a public school teacher that it has been discovered that cursive writing actually helps children learn. They need to think more while writing the letters - and to be honest I forget all the details of the study (I'll try to find it) - but they are starting to bring it back into the public school systems as a result.

3 Replies

@Linkat,

Here is one that tells the benefits of cursive writing.
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2164109/10_reasons_to_teach_cursive_writing.html?cat=4

And I think this is in part what the teacher I spoke with was referring to:
"Cursive does offer immediate academic benefits, experts say: It triggers the thought processes connected to storing and retrieving information in memory, and it helps early and intermediate readers link letters to sounds and spelling."
http://www.boston.com/news/globe/magazine/articles/2003/12/07/the_writing_on_the_wall/

1 Reply

@Linkat,

I am curious (and a bit skeptical) about this Linkat. I would be very interested to see a study on this. I Googled around a bit to no avail. I did find that Florida just put it back into its curriculum.

I also find it strange that kids aren't spending hours a week putting stylus marks in clay tablets.

((I want to bring back slide rules))

1 Reply

@Linkat,

Quote:

Cursive does offer immediate academic benefits, experts say: It triggers the thought processes connected to storing and retrieving information in memory, and it helps early and intermediate readers link letters to sounds and spelling.

Things like this really bother me in journalism (nothing against you Linkat).

What the heck does "experts say" mean? This is shoddy Journalism at best... a research study, and an explanation of who the "experts" are and whether other experts disagree would be interesting. I looked around and couldn't find any people I consider "experts" (i.e. impartial cognitive researchers) or any studies on the topic.

This isn't factual reporting. This is a marketing statement.

1 Reply

@boomerang,

boomerang wrote:

Diagram a sentence?

6th grade

(For me it was 7th grade. Mo is learning it from his tutor in preparation for 4th grade.)

Memorize the multiplication table?

We never memorized the table.

(For me it was 2nd grade. I don't think they're going to require Mo to do it because math isn't taught that way these days, it seems.)

Learn to write in cursive?

2nd grade. Was that the Palmer method?

(2nd grade again for me. Mo hasn't started this yet (going into 4th grade.)

Do dissection(s)?

Never did a dissection till 2nd year of college in my Comparative Anatomy Class. We did the cat, frog, shark and perhaps a worm or two.

(For me it was 8th grade. Mo did several/watched a few more dissections in 3rd grade.)

What age did you graduate from high school?

18

I'm just curious.

Thanks!

1 Reply

@ebrown p,

Honestly I do not have enough information on this myself to make or confirm any judgement. Although this particular teacher was very excited about it and felt very strongely about it. Granted this is one person - I volunteer doing things with young inner city children and this was the teacher of a child I have worked with.

In any case, whether you are for or against it - my children have done well with cursive and it hasn't taken away from other subjects or learning. And their writing is wonderful (much better than my scribbling attempts). To me it doesn't hurt them but then they are in a different learning environment than the inner city students.

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@boomerang,

Quote:

Diagram a sentence? (For me it was 7th grade. Mo is learning it from his tutor in preparation for 4th grade.)

I learned it in third or fourth grade when we began learning the parts of speech: nouns, verbs, adjectives, etc. If remember Mrs. Miller (my teacher for both third and fourth grade- and I loved her so much) telling us it was a good way to make sure you didn't write run-on sentences.
If you had more than one subject and predicate without a conjunction - you probably needed to look again at whether you needed a period and another capital letter somewhere in the middle of what you thought was one 'sentence'.

Quote:

Memorize the multiplication table? (For me it was 2nd grade. I don't think they're going to require Mo to do it because math isn't taught that way these days, it seems.)

Second grade

Quote:

Learn to write in cursive? (2nd grade again for me. Mo hasn't started this yet (going into 4th grade.)

Second or third grade - as soon as we had a good handle on printing and enough small motor control to go on to cursive.

Quote:

Do dissection(s)? (For me it was 8th grade. Mo did several/watched a few more dissections in 3rd grade.)

10th grade biology - Mr. Spadofino and the frog - my friend and I wrote a story about it.

Quote:

What age did you graduate from high school?

18

2 Replies

@ebrown p,

I find it very interesting that the majority of British males do not write in cursive, but they have extremely neat and legible printing, while a lot of males in the US (school age) have almost illegible handwriting - printing or otherwise.

Why are you so in favor of limiting what kids are able to learn? Why do you automatically call these things useless just because they've been replaced by something else? They all learn to type at home on their computer. Why would you reiterate that in school in favor of dropping what is becoming a lost art? I'd rather see my child take calligraphy in school, yes certainly, than more stupid typing on a keyboard.

Maybe they should take mapreading, or mapdrawing, or sewing or any other of a number of arts or skills that will soon be lost to technology.

I find it sad to say good-by to the creative and individual outlet of a distinctive handwriting in favor of the homogenized mechanization of typeface.
Handwriting used to be an expression of one's personality - especially for girls.

1 Reply

@aidan,

Quote:

I learned it in third or fourth grade when we began learning the parts of speech: nouns, verbs, adjectives, etc. If remember Mrs. Miller (my teacher for both third and fourth grade- and I loved her so much) telling us it was a good way to make sure you didn't write run-on sentences.
If you had more than one subject and predicate without a conjunction - you probably needed to look again at whether you needed a period and another capital letter somewhere in the middle of what you thought was one 'sentence'.

Subjects and predicates galore, with hardly a conjunction to be found, Aidan.

1 Reply

@JTT,

That's because I overuse the dash - but only on the internet- the dash is my friend... Laughing

My second best friend is/are parentheses -(I can explain things without stopping the sentence or having to figure out which is the correct punctuation to use).

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@aidan,

Quote:

They all learn to type at home on their computer. Why would you reiterate that in school in favor of dropping what is becoming a lost art? I'd rather see my child take calligraphy in school, yes certainly, than more stupid typing on a keyboard.

I am talking about touch typing-- the ability to type very fast without looking at the keyboard. I took a touch typing class in high school, and I type at 60-65 wpm. I am quite sure that this was the most valuable class I had in high school.

There are not that many people who can type very quickly. This is increasingly becoming a very valuable skill.

My handwriting is atrocious (I can make it legible if I have too-- i.e. for writing the occasional school notes). I have never found this to even a slight inconvenience.

I can write very quickly in a way that near illegible to anyone else-- I use this for meeting notes... but anything important gets typed into a computer.

1 Reply

@ebrown p,

I'm constantly amazed at how fast I see kids typing. Neither my daughter or my son have ever taken typing and they can both type as fast as I can - in fact I think my daughter can type even faster- and I took typing as a class and can type 80 words per minute.

I see kids typing with two fingers who type as fast as I do.
Practice makes perfect and these kids are on a keyboard for hours a day from the age of five (or even younger these days!)

Why/when has education become or ever been about solely what is practical or useful?

How about learning something because it's interesting or beautiful or god forbid - learning for the sake of learning- becoming a more well-rounded instead of simply a practical and utilitarian being?

1 Reply

@aidan,

Quote:

How about learning something because it's interesting or beautiful or god forbid - learning for the sake of learning- becoming a more well-rounded instead of simply a practical and utilitarian being?

I agree with this --- but what does this have to do with cursive?

There is woodworking, and sculpture and painting and art... all exercises that encourage creativity, and reward originality and self-expression. If you want something interesting and beautiful, there are all sorts of arts that celebrate expression and ingenuity.

In cursive (at least when I was taught)... individuality is intentionally crushed. The goal is to make letters exactly as you are told. Excellence is uniformity and the ultimate victory was to be perfectly like the teacher. We were started on dotted lines to show us the way letters must be made. Later, every deviation from the truth was discouraged and every individual "quirk" was punished.

Cursive is the exact opposite of creativity or self-expression.

2 Replies

@aidan,

that makes sense on diagram sentence (now I won't complain when I have to learn or re-learn some school stuff to help my kids).

1 Reply

@ebrown p,

Quote:

In cursive (at least when I was taught)... individuality is intentionally crushed. The goal is to make letters exactly as you are told.

True dat and the result, everyone's handwriting turns out to be different. We get away from the fancy curly cues and completely change the form of some letters.

If we all followed the "right way", anyone could forge anyone's signature.

1 Reply

@Linkat,

Quote:

that makes sense on diagram sentence (now I won't complain when I have to learn or re-learn some school stuff to help my kids).

No, it doesn't make sense, Linkat. Diagramming sentences makes no sense at all for kids. Especially when so much other nonsensical stuff is included in teaching them how language works.

Most of the stuff taught about the mechanics of language are things that have to be memorized, forced into our brains because they actually are not part of the natural process of language.

Having nice, sweet, lovable teachers that kids will adore was a diabolical plot by prescriptivists to trick kids into thinking that they actually learned something about grammar and language. Wink

1 Reply

@JTT,

Quote:

If we all followed the "right way", anyone could forge anyone's signature.

Not any more, I use a 1024-bit DSA key which is pretty near impossible to forge Wink

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@JTT,

Why not - if I learned it I wouldn't have had this run on sentence issue I currently have.

I imagine this diagraming is a tool (not an end all) for this reason - I can see how it would break a sentence down to help you avoid it. Sentencing diagraming also isn't a memorizing exercise - it is a logical one.

1 Reply

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