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Can you ever really know another person?

 
 
HexHammer
 
  2  
Reply Wed 21 Jul, 2010 03:13 pm
@aidan,
aidan wrote:

Quote:
I don't think you quite got my point here. First and foremost, you have to define what "knowing" is. It clearly means somethng else to you than what it means to me. For me, to "know" someone means to fully understand how their mind functions and how they will act in all circumstances/situations. And to me that is knowing someone fully. It is predictability. In that regard, I do not know anyone fully and unless you have some sort of magical powers, you probably do not either.

I do get your point. I guess what I'm saying is that I indeed am defining 'knowing' differently from you, and I'm wondering if that is not also valid.
And maybe I do understand how someone's mind functions to such an extent that I know I can't ever know what they will do next.

And in terms of anticipating change - that can also be a part of really knowing someone. You can know someone enough to know that every three months they will have another address and phone number that you don't know - while someone else you know will have the same address and phone number for thirty years. But just because you know where someone is and what they're doing, does that mean that you know that person better than someone you know inside and out but have no idea where they are?

I think I do understand what you're saying and I think it's probably valid for you, just as I think what I'm saying is valid for me.
I would say that very intelligent people can to a certain degree predict simpleminded peoples responses and behaviour, beyond that ..no.

That would mean we could precisely predict a chessmasters moves, and he would never have anything up his sleve to trick his opponent.

If he had such predictable behaviour and thinking, it would be easy to make androids that could take over the entire workforce of the world and replase us whiney humans.
kennethamy
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Jul, 2010 03:25 pm
@aidan,
aidan wrote:

Okay - here's where we get to the philosophical crux of the matter. Can something be true for me that's not true for you and/or everyone else?


That question usually asks whether I can believe that something is true, but another person not believe that something is true. And, of course the answer to that question is, yes. People sometimes have opposing beliefs. Sometimes, though, when you say that X is true for me, but not true for you, what is meant is that X is true in my case, but is not in your case. For example, it is true for me that milk is nutritious, since I do not have lactose intolerance. But, since you do have lactose intolerance, it is not true for you that milk is nutritious. Therefore, there are two senses of the phrase, "true for you, but not true for me". And, of course, it will depend on what sense of the phrase you are using whether it is correct or incorrect. As so often happens in philosophy, philosophical problems are cause by unclarity about what is being said, and when that unclarity is removed, the answer just pops up. That is why the philosopher, Wittgenstein wrote that, "Philosophy is a constant battle against the bewitchment of the intelligence by language". But, clarification aided by critical thinking; that is the name of the game. (By the way, saying "that depends on whether you are a relativist is not a solution. It just replaces the original problem with a newer, and even more obscure issue of, what is a relativist. And carries us into the land of philosophical jargon, instead of addressing the issue. In other words, to say that is a diversion).
0 Replies
 
irina321
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Jul, 2010 05:07 pm
@HexHammer,
Thank you very much for understanding my point. If we want to speak of "knowing" someone as we often do in our everyday lives than SURE!!! we know it all but in reality, doesn't matter how long you have known that person for or what they have revealed to you.. you are two seperate beings with two seperate minds
HexHammer
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Jul, 2010 06:17 pm
@irina321,
irina321 wrote:

Thank you very much for understanding my point. If we want to speak of "knowing" someone as we often do in our everyday lives than SURE!!! we know it all but in reality, doesn't matter how long you have known that person for or what they have revealed to you.. you are two seperate beings with two seperate minds
I wouldn't define it like that.

A person has 12 major intelligences and ever more sub intelligences, which isn't possible to define all by youself, further you have subconciousness which is extremely difficult to access and define with rationallity.

0 Replies
 
kennethamy
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Jul, 2010 04:34 pm
@irina321,
irina321 wrote:

Thank you very much for understanding my point. If we want to speak of "knowing" someone as we often do in our everyday lives than SURE!!! we know it all but in reality, doesn't matter how long you have known that person for or what they have revealed to you.. you are two seperate beings with two seperate minds


How does the fact that people are separate, with separate minds imply that one of them cannot know the other? Are you suggesting that I can know only myself? One poster has argued that we cannot ever do that. So, I suppose that means we are all know nothings. As I have pointed out several times before, if you define some action in such a way that it would be impossible to perform that action, it is silly of you to point out that the action (as you have defined it) cannot be done. Obviously. Why would anyone expect an action so defined that it is impossible to do, could be done?
Dosed
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Jul, 2010 10:25 am
@kennethamy,
I like the idea that we know nothing.

I think Socrates would agree.

Oh wait, he did.
kennethamy
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Jul, 2010 11:10 am
@Dosed,
Dosed wrote:

I like the idea that we know nothing.

I think Socrates would agree.

Oh wait, he did.


Well, that is what he said, but he really did not mean it. He knew he was an Athenian, a male, a husband (Xantippe was his wife) and he knew Plato, his pupil, extremely well.
Dosed
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Jul, 2010 12:13 pm
@kennethamy,
Those are just masks that we wear. Roles that we play. When we take all of those masks off, who are we? Do we know? Surely we are not what we do, but we do what we are.
kennethamy
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Jul, 2010 12:19 pm
@Dosed,
Dosed wrote:

Those are just masks that we wear. Roles that we play. When we take all of those masks off, who are we? Do we know? Surely we are not what we do, but we do what we are.


Eh, what are masks we wear, or roles we play? What we do is a very important part of who we are. Who we are is nothing over and above what we do, and our characters and personality. It is not some invisible wraith-like entity that hovers around which is like the little man who wasn't there. Who we are is something that others can observe (as they do) and make judgments about (which they also do).
0 Replies
 
Zetherin
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Jul, 2010 01:30 pm
@Dosed,
Dosed wrote:

Those are just masks that we wear. Roles that we play. When we take all of those masks off, who are we? Do we know? Surely we are not what we do, but we do what we are.

What if Socrates also knew where the local market was? How exactly would the market be a mask or role for Socrates to wear?
0 Replies
 
kennethamy
 
  1  
Reply Mon 26 Jul, 2010 06:45 am
Getting to know you,
Getting to know all about you.
Getting to like you,
Getting to hope you like me.

Getting to know you,
Putting it my way,
But nicely,
You are precisely,
My cup of tea.

[ANNA AND THE MOTHERS]

Getting to know you,
Getting to know all about you.
Getting to like you,
Getting to hope you like me.

Getting to know you,
Putting it my way,
But nicely,
You are precisely,

[ANNA]

My cup of tea.

[ALL]

Getting to know you,
Getting to feel free and easy
When I am with you,
Getting to know what to say

Haven't you noticed
Suddenly I'm bright and breezy?
Because of all the beautiful and new
Things I'm learning about you
Day by day.

Getting to know you,
Getting to feel free and easy
When I am with you,
Getting to know what to say

Haven't you noticed
Suddenly I'm bright and breezy?
Because of all the beautiful and new
Things I'm learning about you
Day .. by ... day.


The King and I (The Broadway Musical)
0 Replies
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Aug, 2010 12:39 pm
Can you really know yourself ?
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Aug, 2010 01:06 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
....as asked on page one !
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Sun 22 Aug, 2010 02:34 pm
@fresco,
You´re right...and to reply I think we can´t, but that certainly won´t keep me from trying...
(Trying is all the fun we have left !) Very Happy
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Aug, 2010 03:08 am
@Fil Albuquerque,
Part of the "fun" is that you might not like what you see. Wink
0 Replies
 
 

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