25
   

Hey, Can A Woman "Ask To Get Raped"?

 
 
BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 2 Aug, 2010 06:57 am
@High Seas,
Quote:
Stands to reason that women subjected to severe pain and suffering during intercourse would avoid it like the plague, with the net result of fewer pregnancies. Combined with high infant mortality that would keep the population from exploding.


Sorry I do not think that there are too many men who had not run into one or two women in their lives that had wish for sex in a manner that does indeed cause them pain.
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Aug, 2010 07:14 am
@BillRM,
True, but our family planning techniques have improved somewhat since the neolithic age. But we do have here one poster who supports that stuff - though presumably not for purposes of contraception. No wonder he has to use force on whatever hapless female gets trapped as his counterparty - unless the argument is that the pain and suffering is part of consensual S-M activity? That changes matters considerably, if true. I hope that can be cleared up.
BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 2 Aug, 2010 07:20 am
@High Seas,
What tie in do you think exist between a woman desiring pain during intercourse and family planning?

If anything those few woman I had run into seem to have a greater sex drive then others, however as I had always been uncomfortable with such a situation my sample size is small.

failures art
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Aug, 2010 07:37 am
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
I understand that feminists are more than fine with male/female relationships breaking down because they start with the premise that these relationships are inherently bad for women..so any woman who actually enjoys the company of a male mate would be wise to let the feminist carping about how unreasonable men are go in one ear and out the other.


Your views are more threatening to male/female relationships than feminism is. The break down of male/female relationships would certainly assist you in your quests for "sexual acquisitions."

I don't know a single feminist that claims male/female relationships are inherently bad. That's total crap. I'd say you've mistaken the idea that women don't need to be defined by man to mean that association with a man is inherently bad.

Who would want a woman who only stays with you becau-- Nevermind. I just remembered who I am asking.

A
R
T
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Aug, 2010 07:37 am
@BillRM,
The family planning issue only came up because of the African and Indian ancient practices mentioned earlier on this page. It obviously doesn't apply to our societies. The problem with S-M is having one party change its mind and subsequently claim it was assaulted. There was a famous case in New York some years ago - fortunately the accused could provide the countless e-mails of the accuser in which she expressed wishes to get assaulted, tortured etc.
Quote:
The dismissal was requested ''in the interest of justice'' by the office of the Manhattan district attorney, Robert M. Morgenthau. ....Mr. Jovanovic had been convicted of kidnapping, sexual abuse and assault in 1998 and sentenced to 15 years to life in prison. He was released after an appeals court ruled that the trial judge had kept important evidence from the jury.

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/02/nyregion/charges-dismissed-in-columbia-sexual-torture-case.html
But consent, while necessary, is only sufficient up to a point - if one party ends up dead or crippled for life the state can still prosecute.
BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 2 Aug, 2010 08:58 am
@failures art,
Quote:
don't know a single feminist that claims male/female relationships are inherently bad. That's total crap. I'd say you've mistaken the idea that women don't need to be defined by man to mean that association with a man is inherently bad.


I am amaze that you can post this in light of the woman who started this thread postings.

She for example posted messages after messages showing that she does not have any concerns for the unfairness of our criminal code toward men in this matter her only concern is in females. This I find amazing given that men and women are tied so tightly together that hurting one sex will also hurt members of the other sex.

Another lady posted here that the men who go to single bars are little more then evil predators eager to assault some poor defenseless woman.


Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Aug, 2010 09:04 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Quote:
don't know a single feminist that claims male/female relationships are inherently bad. That's total crap. I'd say you've mistaken the idea that women don't need to be defined by man to mean that association with a man is inherently bad.


I am amaze that you can post this in light of the woman who started this thread postings.

She for example posted messages after messages showing that she does not have any concerns for the unfairness of our criminal code toward men in this matter her only concern is in females. This I find amazing given that men and women are tied so tightly together that hurting one sex will also hurt members of the other sex.

Another lady posted here that the men who go to single bars are little more then evil predators eager to assault some poor defenseless woman.





Once again, Billy boy shows that he does not have a clue as to what the thread is about or what ART was alluding to.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 2 Aug, 2010 09:15 am
@High Seas,
Quote:
The problem with S-M is having one party change its mind and subsequently claim it was assaulted.


My wife was on blood thinning drugs for a time and as a result was cover with bad looking black and blue marks and I remember teasing her that she could get me send to jail anytime she care to.
0 Replies
 
JustBrooke
 
  3  
Reply Mon 2 Aug, 2010 10:13 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:


Another lady posted here that the men who go to single bars are little more then evil predators eager to assault some poor defenseless woman.



Listen asshat- If you are going to post lies, be forewarned that you WILL get called on it.

The TRUTH is - I said this in response to Hawkeye saying that some women complain that men are too timid. See below:

hawkeye10 wrote:


Go talk to some young women if you want to be comforted, they will complain mostly about how the men are too timid.


My response:

JustBrooke wrote:

Yes, some men are so timid, that when a female goes into a bar, they sit and wait in hopes that they can either get some easy action, or she becomes easy to overpower. If she's not drinking fast enough for them - they start buying her drinks. I never let a guy buy me a drink in a bar unless he is a well-known friend that I can trust. If ya can't talk to me when I am sober - don't talk to me when I'm drunk. Timid? Nah. Just a few scumbags floating around looking for what they think will be an easy conquest or possible rape.


You chose to quote me in an untrue context for your own purposes. Read that again. I did NOT imply that the majority of men who go into bars are scumbags. The keywords there are "some" and "few." Do you need me to explain the definition of either of those words?

If you deny that there are NOT men in bars that go there to try and get an easy piece of ass off of a drunken woman who may not consent if she were sober, or men that are not beyond slippling a Mickey into some girls drink, or that men that rape do not ever go into bars - you are a liar.

I stand by what I said, but I will NOT stand for you to twist what I said into something to suit you.





firefly
 
  2  
Reply Mon 2 Aug, 2010 10:29 am
@failures art,
Quote:

You are correct. Many states create a lesser crime for an equally heinous offense. The distinction is meaningless.

In the crime of murder, we don't have a different class of crime for if the murder is done with a knife versus a gun. The creation of which would be meaningless. Both offenses are EQUALLY heinous, and deserve equal treatment under the law.

A woman who has intercourse forced upon her is no less traumatized than a woman who is forced to have oral sex, be urinated/defecated on, or penetrated with a foreign object other than a penis. The same applies for a man. The laws should reflect that. It does not appear that they do (in some places).


Because you consider certain crimes "equally heinous" does not mean the law regards them the same way. For instance, we have many different legal charges to cover the killing of another person besides "murder". The punishment for each of these crimes may differ significantly, but, in each instance, a victim is dead. If you were to punish the offender simply for the fact that a victim is dead, why do we have, or need to have, all those other crimes, with all those varying sentences, when it comes to killing another person, why not just have murder? In some states the killing of a police officer is a capital offense, where the deaths of civilians might not carry an automatic death penalty. Is the life of a police officer really worth more than the life of someone else in the community, like a cardiac surgeon or a school teacher?

There are varying reasons why the law defines the killing of another human by different crimes. The same is true for why it regards and defines different types of sexual assaults as being different crimes,

I don't think you have any basis in fact for saying that a woman is as equally traumatized emotionally by a rape as she would be by having something else offensive done to her, like being urinated/defecated on. While both may be emotionally degrading experiences, one does involve a literal physical invasion of her body, an assault inside the body, which can also do considerably more actual physical damage than being urinated on.

I think you are also failing to fully appreciate the "assault" part of "sexual assaults". These aren't just regarded as sexual acts, sexual assaults are classified as crimes of violence. You can't just look at these crimes from the perspective of degree of emotional trauma to the victim, there are different degrees of violence to the human body, of physical trauma, involved with different sexual assaults, and people vary in their emotional reactions to trauma.

When women were regarded as the property of their husbands, her rape was considered to be a crime against her husband, and not against the woman herself, and the crime was considered a theft. Rapes of unmarried women were sometimes not even regarded as crimes. Not until women were regarded as independent, legally separate human beings, did rape even come to be recognized as a crime against the woman. And, until fairly recently, the rape laws, and the treatment of rape in the criminal justice system in the U.S. and Canada, were significantly biased against the female victim and in favor of the male defendant. One reason that "sexual assault" replaced "rape" in the Canadian system was to emphasize the violent and aggressive nature of the crime rather than its sexual aspects.

Male rape has a somewhat different history

Quote:
Historically, the rape of males was more widely recognized in ancient times. Several of the legends in Greek mythology involved abductions and sexual assaults of males by other males or gods. The rape of a defeated male enemy was considered the special right of the victorious soldier in some societies and was a signal of the totality of the defeat. There was a widespread belief that a male who was sexually penetrated, even if it was by forced sexual assault, thus "lost his manhood," and could no longer be a warrior or ruler. Gang rape of a male was considered an ultimate form of punishment and, as such, was known to the Romans as punishment for adultery and the Persians and Iranians as punishment for violation of the sanctity of the harem (Donaldson, 1990).

Nicholas Groth, a clinical psychologist and author of Men Who Rape: The Psychology of the Offender, says all sexual assault is an act of aggression, regardless of the gender or age of the victim or the assailant. Neither sexual desire nor sexual deprivation is the primary motivating force behind sexual assault. It is not about sexual gratification, but rather a sexual aggressor using somebody else as a means of expressing their own power and control.

In some states, the word "rape" is used only to define a forced act of vaginal sexual intercourse, and an act of forced anal intercourse is termed "sodomy." In some states, the crime of sodomy also includes any oral sexual act. There are some states that now use gender-neutral terms to define acts of forced anal, vaginal or oral intercourse. Also, some states no longer use the terms "rape" and "sodomy," rather all sex crimes are described as sexual assaults or criminal sexual conduct of various degrees depending on the use and amount of force or coercion on the part of the assailant .
http://www.ncvc.org/ncvc/main.aspx?dbName=DocumentViewer&DocumentID=32361


Most of the time, when people talk about male rape they are talking about forcible rapes committed by males, where the victim is also male, and anal penetration is involved. Those rapes are now equivalent legally with rapes of females by males.

English law chooses to reserve the term "rape" exclusively for a crime that involves male penetration of a woman's vagina without consent. That does not mean that they do not similarly punish women who commit a crime that involves penetration of a man's anus without consent.

Quote:
Under English law, it is possible for a woman to 'rape' a man, but the woman would be prosecuted for the offence of assault by penetration and not for the offence of rape... Section 2 of the 2003 Act introduces a new sexual offence, "assault by penetration", with the same punishment as rape. It is committed when someone sexually penetrates the anus or vagina with a part of his or her body, or with an object, without that person's consent.


So, what difference does it really make if the crime is called "rape" when the victim is female, but "assault by penetration" if the victim is male, as long as the punishments are equivalent? The English system equates the unlawful penetration of the woman's vagina by a male with the unlawful pentration of the man's anus by the female. That seems reasonable.

I'm not sure that when a female has sexual intercourse with a man, without consent, that we are talking about "rape" as "rape" has been understood historically in the law, or even in the general culture. And I am not at all sure it is completely equivalent to male on female rape or male on male rape in its seriousness as an aggressive or violent offense.

It is also extremely difficult to get statistics regarding female on male forced intercourse. These figures, for instance, include intercourse which was forced on males by both males and females.
Quote:
Forced intercourse
•Percent of women 18-44 years of age ever forced by a male to have sexual intercourse at some time in their lives, 2002: 22.6%
(Based on the question: "Have you ever been forced by a male to have vaginal intercourse against your will?"
•Percent of men 18-44 years of age ever forced by a male or female to have sexual intercourse at some time in their lives, 2002: 7.6% http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nsfg/abc_list_f.htm#forced


This is a news story about a man who reported to the police that he was "raped by a woman".

Quote:

San Diego News
Local Man Claims Woman Raped Him
UPDATED: 10:43 am PDT September 21, 2007

COLINA DEL SOL, Calif. -- A local man claims he was raped by a woman. Police disagree.

As 10News digital correspondent Ron Tuatagaloa reports, the man says police are treating him differently because of his gender.

George Kelly does a lot of reading and Web surfing these days in an effort to forget the night last week when a distraught neighbor came to his door, ostensibly to talk about her son's deployment to Iraq.


"She goes into the thing about her husband dying and then she jumped from that to not having sex," Kelley claims.

It was a topic George wasn't comfortable with, but despite his protests the talk turned physical.

"She pinned me down on the bed," he said.

Kelly claims he was raped. However, according to the investigation, there's no proof; no evidence; no smoking gun. The only remnant is an apologetic phone message left by George's alleged attacker.

"I'm really sorry, OK, [about] what happened. And, um, you were right, you know. It shouldn't have happened. OK. Think like it never happened," the woman said in a recorded phone message.

It is proof of an uncomfortable interaction, perhaps, but not a rape. Which is what detectives of the sex crimes unit determined when they investigated Kelly's accusation.

Still, Kelly thinks he was brushed off because of his gender.

"I'm trying to be strong. I'm angry. I just want to... I don't know. I don't want to just feel like nothing happened. It did happen. It did happen. It happened to me," he insisted.

A police representative said Kelly's claims were investigated thoroughly, and according to department policy all rape claims are treated equally regardless of the victim's gender.
http://www.10news.com/news/14173622/detail.html


I'm not sure that this man was brushed off because of his gender. There is absolutely no evidence to prove that the sex occurred, let alone that it was forced. And that would be the problem with the police following up on stories like this, where an adult man alleges that a woman forced him to have intercourse, but there are no witnesses or any evidence to substantiate the attack. One could argue that the police showed sexist bias because the complainant was male, but there really isn't evidence of that either.

Also, in this story, as in many stories (mostly outside the U.S.) where men claim such things, the motive given was that the woman was "sex starved" which is inconsistent with generally accepted motives for sexual crimes as acts of aggression or violence. The alleged victim in this case was possibly perpetuating that same myth about why a woman would do that to him. Why do people assume a woman would not force sex for the same reasons men do--domination, power, humiliation of the victim, etc.

I think male victims of sexual assaults by females have to be urged to come forward to report such crimes. There are not enough meaningful statistics to evaluate the extent of the problem. And we don't know how law enforcement and the criminal justice system treats the problem of forced intercourse of adult men by women. If we can't find the cases, and look at the punishments given out, I'm not sure we can jump to conclusion that existing laws are unfair to men. These cases have to wind up in courtrooms before we can find out how the criminal justice system is handling them. I want male victims treated fairly too.











BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 2 Aug, 2010 11:19 am
@JustBrooke,
Dear come on that is plenty must what you said.............

Bars are full of male predators like lions waiting for game at the old watering hole and as a man who in his younger days had been to such bars you are full of ****.

I was there along with 99.99 percents of the other males in those bars for the same damn reason the women was there in the hope of meeting an interesting woman not to prey on women.
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Aug, 2010 11:32 am
@Intrepid,
Intrepid wrote:

Arella Mae wrote:

I am not going to argue with you dyslexia. I find open marriages disgusting.


Actually, Dys point is on the mark.

Many of us consider a one man one woman relationship to be acceptable and good for them. I am among those.

However, it is also the choice of some to not have a singular loving relatonship. Some of us may not quite understand that but we should not judge those who do.

It only becomes a problem when it is not consentual and force (i..e. rape) is involved.

I don't like curry either, but I have no objection to those who do.
I intentionally have left out any comments on what scripture says and I still am accused of judging someone. I find the concept of open marriage disgusting. It's the way I feel and it is my right to state such, is it not?
snood
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Aug, 2010 11:43 am
The thing that crosses my mind is, if you want to be in an "open" marriage, why get married?
BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 2 Aug, 2010 11:50 am
@JustBrooke,
One county and western bar/restaurant that was on my way home I happen to end up living in for a decade or more and I never once saw any man acting as your claimed men act toward women in bars.

A large percent of the customers were regulars and there was one hell of a lot of hooking up and dating in that bar without any evil male predators showing up to the party and if such ever did happen the other male customers would had step in.

It was more of a cheer bar then the TV show cheer bar. That was a good time in my life and I and the other evil men with female customers and female employees would party as a group a numbers of times a month.

We even rented a plane once and we all travel to the Bahamas with the owner bitching that he had a hell of a time running the place when we took such a large percent of his employees out of the country for the weekend.

Not one rape, not one assault but we did end up with a marriage or two and some very long term relationships.

One wonder if you had pick drug hangout bars to visit in order to had gain such a view of men behaviors around women in bars.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Aug, 2010 12:19 pm
@snood,
snood wrote:

The thing that crosses my mind is, if you want to be in an "open" marriage, why get married?
Exactly!
0 Replies
 
JustBrooke
 
  2  
Reply Mon 2 Aug, 2010 12:19 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Dear come on that is plenty must what you said.............

Bars are full of male predators like lions waiting for game at the old watering hole and as a man who in his younger days had been to such bars you are full of ****.

I was there along with 99.99 percents of the other males in those bars for the same damn reason the women was there in the hope of meeting an interesting woman not to prey on women.


What's the matter Billy? Can't admit when you are wrong? Figures.

Bars are "full" of male predators, eh? Is this what YOU are saying, Billy? Surely, you are not accusing me of saying that. If so, please kindly point to exactly where I said that. Otherwise, direct your "full of ****" statement back at yourself.

You are disagreeing with me when I say that there are a "few" scumbags in bars that are there for the reasons I stated? The majority of men in bars are not going to rape or prey on a woman, IMO. That does NOT, however, negate what I said and you misquoted me on - and are still misquoting me on. There are a "few scumbags in bars." If you wish to deny that, would it be because you are one of those scumbags? Perhaps in denial?

Do yourself a favor and get educated. Learn about the women that have been drugged in bars. Learn about the women that have been raped after leaving the bar. Learn about the women that were too drunk to give proper consent and were taken advantage of. When you are done with that, get a dictionary. Look up words you do not understand

You are simply not man enough to admit that you took what I said out of context and magnified it for your own benefit. Stop playing games. You don't think people can see through you?

There is a huge difference between saying "a few" and saying "the majority." A "few" scumbags could equal 1%, 5%, 10%, 20% .... and it matters not. The fact that they are there at all, is reason enough to be aware so we can take precautions and play safe.







firefly
 
  2  
Reply Mon 2 Aug, 2010 12:34 pm
@Intrepid,
Quote:
Your hate of feminists, of whom you claim to be a former one, verges on the edge of a sickness.


Intrepid, Hawkeye's hatred of feminists doesn't verge on the edge of sickness, it's a full blown obsession. He mentions "feminists" in virtually all his posts, as the creators of sex laws which are anti-sex and anti-male, despite the fact that he cannot name even 3 prominent current feminist thinkers/writers or feminist organizations that advocate what he rails against. "Feminists" are no more than phantoms of his imagination, some evil force that justifies his anger against a system of laws that insists on an age of consent, the criminalization of child pornography, and an unforced willingness to engage in sexual intercourse.

He just refuses to admit that most people want these laws in place with good reason.

He's told us that coerced sex is normal for him. Because he accepts it as normal, it makes it rather difficult for him to accept that rape, other than the most obviously violent or brutal rapes, what he considers "real rape" should even be a crime. He wants the laws to bend so he can continue to satisfy his personal needs for "sexual conquests and acquisitions" in a more unfettered manner. And anyone that gets in the way of that, or disagrees with that, he's going to label a "feminist".











Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Aug, 2010 12:42 pm
@Arella Mae,
Of course it your right to disagree as it is with everyone. I don't think Dys was disputing your right to disagree. He was stating, the same as I, that the fact that we disagree with something does not mean it does not happen.

As for scripture.....it also teaches not to judge.
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Aug, 2010 12:44 pm
@snood,
snood wrote:

The thing that crosses my mind is, if you want to be in an "open" marriage, why get married?


Good point, Snood. I agree with you fully.

It seems that there are some that do so for convenience. In Hawkeye's case it seems to be that he needed someone to pay the bills and keep him. One really has to wonder is his wife knows his views on rape and whether you agrees with him if she does.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Aug, 2010 12:46 pm
@Intrepid,
Intrepid wrote:

Of course it your right to disagree as it is with everyone. I don't think Dys was disputing your right to disagree. He was stating, the same as I, that the fact that we disagree with something does not mean it does not happen.

As for scripture.....it also teaches not to judge.
We cannot judge someone's salvation but we make judgment calls everyday. There is wrong and there is right and we definitely do make judgments on that. But this is not an S&R thread and I do not want to derail it.
 

Related Topics

 
Copyright © 2025 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.91 seconds on 04/30/2025 at 03:59:42