25
   

Hey, Can A Woman "Ask To Get Raped"?

 
 
BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 29 Jul, 2010 07:27 pm
@hawkeye10,
You know Hawkeye, I just cannot picture firefly having a son or a brother or any other males that she would normally care about taking the positions she had taken on this thread.

The one position I like most is her comment that if a male happen to be dating an emotionally unstable woman who then charge him falsely with rape it is his fault for not picking more wisely.

Of course no one would dare to suggest that if a woman pick a man to date badly and is raped as a result it is her fault not the rapist.
BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 29 Jul, 2010 07:30 pm
@Arella Mae,
Sorry you just reply "AMEN AND AMEN!" to the comment you did not post it!
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Jul, 2010 07:32 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:

Tell me firefly had you ever come to the conclusion that any woman who had level a charge of rape was not being truthful? One woman in your life that your question her truthfulness?

Lord being able to get a rape conviction against a Kennedy would be like winning the superball lottery.

Poor Dr. Kennedy found no guilty but he still need to put up with the kind of nonsense you had just posted.


I would only know that a woman had made an untrue rape accusation if she admitted it or if her charges were clearly exposed as fraudulent. And I am aware of cases where that happened. Otherwise, I would assume the woman was telling the truth, and I would assume the defendant was innocent, until I had seen and heard the evidence presented at trial.

In the case of the William Kennedy Smith trial, the entire trial was televised and I watched it, so I heard the all the evidence and testimony. The deck was stacked against Patricia Bowman, and the D.A., from the moment she walked into the courtroom because the defendant was a Kennedy, and particularly because Sen. Kennedy was implicated in the events of that night. You are right, getting a rape conviction against a Kennedy would have been like winning a superball lottery, and the D.A.'s odds of winning it would have been as slim as the odds of winning that lottery.

As was the case with O.J., the Not Guilty verdict did not convince a great many people that Smith was innocent. There was a lot of controversy with this case. The judge's decision not to let those 3 other women testify at the trial upset a lot of people, who felt that a repeated pattern of behavior, particularly rape, is important info for a jury to hear about, particularly in a date rape trial,which hinges almost exclusively on the credibility of the two parties. Had that testimony been allowed, with cross examination by the defense, Smith's acquittal might have been more acceptable in the court of public opinion. These women, all very reputable professionals, talked to the media anyway about their alleged rape experiences with Smith. It would have been much better if all the talking had been done in the courtroom.

What do you mean that poor Dr Smith (his last name is not Kennedy), even though found Not Guilty, still has to put up with the "kind of nonsense" I posted? What about this situation is "nonsense"? There is a difference between being found Not Guilty and being found innocent. Smith's trial is a matter of public record and it was a highly publicized trial. I listened to the testimony and I found Bowman's testimony very credible and she did have evidence of bruising. She also passed two polygraph tests and a voice stress test. Personally, I felt he had raped her. He had a top notch lawyer, who simply did a better job than the D.A., and who managed to raise reasonable doubt in the jurors minds. I'll accept the legal verdict of Not Guilty, but that doesn't mean I thought Smith was innocent. And I think O.J. did those murders too, despite his Not Guilty verdict.

Immediately after the verdict, Bowman said, "All I have endured is worth it if I made it easier for one woman to make what for me was the only choice I could." And she continued to urge other rape victims to report their assaults.

The reason I brought up this case was because it brought the whole subject of date rape to widespread public attention, the way the Bobbitt case brought spousal rape to public attention. And, leaving out the celebrity factor of a Kennedy, it is a very typical date rape scenario. And it does show the problems involved in trying to get convictions in cases like this, and the sort of things the alleged rape victim is put through when she reports a rape.
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Jul, 2010 07:34 pm
@Arella Mae,
Arella Mae wrote:

BillRM wrote:

Quote:
And your description of rape as a sex act pretty much tells us all we need to know about you....


Oh so that West pointer with the woman jumping into his bed was not having an act of sex with her?
That is NOT my quote.


You may have noticed that both Billy and Hawkeye are prone to misquoting. They are in such a hurry to spout more crap that they don't care who posted what or what they are answering. Hell, they don't even care that they don't address most of the topics that are presented to them. They have even misquoted themselves. Laughing
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Thu 29 Jul, 2010 07:34 pm
@Intrepid,
Quote:

The reason that I care is that you, once again, cannot backup what you say
I brought the relevant information to the table, and documented it, I am done. If you don't believe me then go check around yourself, if you decide that I am wrong then we will throw down on evidence and see who wins. What you are trying to do is manipulate me into doing work for no reason, which I am not going to do. I am here to debate, I have no interest in being your tool.
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 29 Jul, 2010 07:44 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
You know Hawkeye, I just cannot picture firefly having a son or a brother or any other males that she would normally care about taking the positions she had taken on this thread
IDK, she strikes me as gay...most of the militant ones that I have known have been, they never need to take the male view of intimate relationship into consideration, and don't. Maybe she is not, it is not a sure thing.
BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 29 Jul, 2010 07:46 pm
@firefly,
I listener to the trial also my dear and did not come up with the conclusion that the jury was wrong in finding him not guilty.

Sorry, that I did not remember his last name however I do remember Dr. Smith statement that he is carrying a target on his back for the rest of his life over the matter.

Thank for helping prove Dr. Smith correct as you had taken a cheap shot at the poor man back.
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Jul, 2010 07:47 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:

The reason that I care is that you, once again, cannot backup what you say
I brought the relevant information to the table, and documented it, I am done. If you don't believe me then go check around yourself, if you decide that I am wrong then we will throw down on evidence and see who wins. What you are trying to do is manipulate me into doing work for no reason, which I am not going to do. I am here to debate, I have no interest in being your tool.


The information was neither relevant or documented. If it was documented, I would not have asked the question. If it was documented you would have been able to direct me to where you documented it. This gets more pathetic by the minute.

Debate? Debate what? This thread is not about debate, as Firefly (the author of the thread) has told you on more than one occassion and has also asked that you keep to topic. You are a hoot.
Intrepid
 
  2  
Reply Thu 29 Jul, 2010 07:50 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
You know Hawkeye, I just cannot picture firefly having a son or a brother or any other males that she would normally care about taking the positions she had taken on this thread
IDK, she strikes me as gay...most of the militant ones that I have known have been, they never need to take the male view of intimate relationship into consideration, and don't. Maybe she is not, it is not a sure thing.


That foolishness is totally uncalled for and is very telling of your immature nature.

So, a strong and confident woman is considered a militant in your world?

You don't seem to take the rape victim into consideration but you whine about being put upon by what you consider to be a militant feminist.

You are beyond pity.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Jul, 2010 07:50 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:

The reason that I care is that you, once again, cannot backup what you say
I brought the relevant information to the table, and documented it, I am done. If you don't believe me then go check around yourself, if you decide that I am wrong then we will throw down on evidence and see who wins. What you are trying to do is manipulate me into doing work for no reason, which I am not going to do. I am here to debate, I have no interest in being your tool.
If you want to debate then why don't you try reading what are the common rules to debate?

http://www.saskdebate.com/pdf/2006revisedGeneral%20Rules%20of%20Debate.pdf

Notice that if you state something as fact it is INCUMBENT UPON YOU TO PROVIDE PROOF.

Most debaters on A2K are already aware of this.
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 29 Jul, 2010 07:52 pm
@Intrepid,
Quote:
The information was neither relevant or documented.
we are in a rape thread and according to you the rape rate is not relevant?? Drunk

He is the website of the study
http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/NACJD/NCVS/
do you need a class on how to work google now?

I'd be willing to find one for you so that we could rid ourselves of your stupid questions.
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 29 Jul, 2010 07:54 pm
@Arella Mae,
Quote:
INCUMBENT UPON YOU TO PROVIDE PROOF.
naming a very well respected study IS proof.
BillRM
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 29 Jul, 2010 07:54 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
IDK, she strikes me as gay...most of the militant ones that I have known have been, they never need to take the male view of intimate relationship into consideration, and don't. Maybe she is not, it is not a sure thing.


You are a brave man indeed Hawkeye to state that opinion out loud and you are being shockingly non-PC beside however that idea had also enter my mind.

My problem is that even our gay females citizens tend to have male family members and male friends they care about so even if true there more to the story then that.
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Jul, 2010 08:00 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
INCUMBENT UPON YOU TO PROVIDE PROOF.
naming a very well respected study IS proof.
Aren't you just full of contradictions? I thought you were no one's research assistant?
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  2  
Reply Thu 29 Jul, 2010 08:00 pm
@hawkeye10,
By your own admission the authors of the study were crucified. How does that make it a "very well respected study"?
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 29 Jul, 2010 08:00 pm
@Intrepid,
Quote:
Firefly (the author of the thread) has told you on more than one occassion and has also asked that you keep to topic.
OK, how many have you had, because you are toasted man.....Stay on topic at a2k? The thread starter gets to police the thread at a2k? We dont do that for anyone else around here, what makes Firefly so special??
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Jul, 2010 08:02 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
Poor guy is sleeping in bed when a woman climbed into his bed waking him up and begin kissing him and because of our silly laws all that was needed to ruin this young man life was her regretting having sex later and claiming she had been drinking.


If you read the article on this case that you posted the woman didn't just claim she had been drinking. Witnesses saw her drinking all night--she did a great deal of drinking.

What was the outcome of this case? Was there a rape conviction in this case?

And the Cadet certainly seems guilty of the second charge against him.. and he can't blame that one on the woman.

Quote:
Cadet Cox and other witnesses also affirmed that there was somebody in the bottom bunk of the bedroom all night long, and that people wandered into the room, details relevant to a second charge against Cadet Engelbrecht for committing an indecent act. Under military law, having sex with someone in a place where others might be present constitutes an indecent act.


Don't you even read the things you yourself post?

What was your point in posting this case? You don't even know whether a rape conviction was obtained.

I can't really see anything silly about a man who chooses to have sex with a woman who is so intoxicated she can't see straight. Even if he could beat a rape charge, do you really approve of someone "taking advantage of her" like that?
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 29 Jul, 2010 08:03 pm
@DrewDad,
Quote:
By your own admission the authors of the study were crucified. How does that make it a "very well respected study"?
NO, but you are lost...I invite you to reread the last two pages of this thread to see if you can figure out where you made the wrong turn.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Jul, 2010 08:04 pm
@firefly,
firefly wrote:

I can't really see anything silly about a man who chooses to have sex with a woman who is so intoxicated she can't see straight. Even if he could beat a rape charge, do you really approve of someone "taking advantage of her" like that?
Unfortunately, for some men, it's the only way they are gonna get a woman in bed.
BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 29 Jul, 2010 08:08 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
But that position makes some researchers see red. "No means no," Prentky says angrily, "in all situations, under all circumstances." He adds that feeling pressured or obligated is the same as feeling threatened or intimidated. "Respecting and honoring a woman means respecting and honoring her no."


It nice to know that I seem to had rape my poor wife a few hundreds time both before we was married and afterward.

When I do approach, her for sex and she happen not in the mood I had been known to do the very manly thing and whine pitifully.

Such rape attempts only seem to work around 30 percents of the times with her however even if I do not overdo it.

I guess I will have to turn myself in as a repeat rapist.
 

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