25
   

Hey, Can A Woman "Ask To Get Raped"?

 
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Apr, 2014 09:03 pm
@wmwcjr,
Let see by your story we have the word of a woman who had been willing to be a blackmailer that five college males was willing to gang rape her with the sixth person who set it up being a lover of hers.

So six middle class young college men was willing to be rapists and thereby taking the chance of blowing their futures and with only one having any reason to hold a grudge against her by your story.

Tawana Brawley was supposed to had been gang rape also by large evil group of middle class white men including cops and lawyers and of course we have Crystal Mangum who was "raped" by three Duke players where not only did it never happen but she went on to murder one of her boyfriends.

Oh then we have the young woman in Canada who when a video of her having group sex at a rave came out it turn into gang rape.

The story got international coverage but when the case fell apart after the only guy charge with this group "rape" was on video in a fast food place with his so call victim and others enjoying a meal within an hour, the news media barely cover the matter.


0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Fri 18 Apr, 2014 03:06 am
@wmwcjr,
The figures speak for themselves, the vast majority of rapes go unpunished.

Only BillRM can watch footage of a gang rape and think it's consensual.

This is the man who was thrown out of a park because he tried to entice small children with kittens.

BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Apr, 2014 06:31 am
@izzythepush,
Quote:
Only BillRM can watch footage of a gang rape and think it's consensual


What footage of what gang rape?

If you mean the Canadian group sex/ so call gang rape video as no one was legally allow to see it but the police being label child porn however those who did see it illegally and who in fact knew the young lady in question was of the strong opinion that it was not a rape.

To say nothing of the little fact that she was enjoying the company of the one man charge with raping her within the hour at a fast food restaurant on security cameras.

Quote:
This is the man who was thrown out of a park because he tried to entice small children with kittens


An if I had brought my wife along to that park in my attempts to find homes for those kittens no one would had one little problem with it.

That just show how fast we are to see evil in men and not women and to the point that a story that six college men with no criminal past would get together and decided to rape some poor woman seems likely to some of us.

Or that three college students would drag a dancer/hooker into a bathroom at a party and rape her or that a large group of men consisting of lawyers including one DA and cops and so on would rape a poor black child.

In fact in Western nations for the last few generations I can name any number of cases where large group gang rapes was charge without foundation but not one off hand where it was proven to had happen.

Another example of that was the large number of black teenagers that was rounded up and charge with gang rape and then being convicted of the gang rape in new york central park of a woman jogger.

Turn out all of them was innocent and their lives ruin due to the society was all to willing to view black teenagers as wild rapists of white women.

We even added the term wilding to cover the manner of this gang rape that never did happen

Sadly women are rape as the central park woman was indeed a rape victim but not by a gang but by one sick rapist.

izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Apr, 2014 07:46 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:
no one was legally allow to see it but the police being label child porn however those who did see it illegally and who in fact knew the young lady in question was of the strong opinion that it was not a rape.


Typical, you'd sooner take the word of people who watch child pornography than that of victims or the police. That says it all.
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Fri 18 Apr, 2014 08:16 am
@izzythepush,
LOL yes indeed we should disregard the opinions of her school mates who dare to break the law by viewing the evidence of this so call crime.

Too bad the one person they did bring charges against was shown on security videos within an hour of taking part in this so call gang rape breaking bread with the poor victim who was also suppose to had been drug out of her mind only an hour before hand.

It would had been wonderful if the police could had found a way to stop the viewing of the security tape also showing her being alert and friendly with her once more so call rapist.

They might then not had needed to drop the charges against her one "rapists" and throw up their hands concerning charging anyone else.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  3  
Reply Fri 18 Apr, 2014 08:25 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
In fact in Western nations for the last few generations I can name any number of cases where large group gang rapes was charge without foundation but not one off hand where it was proven to had happen.

Then you haven't even bothered to read the cases posted in this thread where convictions were obtained in gang rapes.

You'd prefer to believe that all these women and girls were sluts, who not only wanted this alleged "group sex", they wanted the additional humiliation of having these acts photographed, documented, and disseminated through the social media. Your contempt for women is palpable.
Quote:
The Steubenville High School rape occurred in Steubenville, Ohio, on the night of August 11, 2012, when a high school girl, incapacitated by alcohol, was publicly and repeatedly sexually assaulted by her peers, several of whom documented the acts in social media. The victim was transported, undressed, photographed, and sexually assaulted. She was also penetrated vaginally by other students' fingers (digital penetration), an act defined as rape under Ohio law.

The jocular attitude of the assailants was documented on Facebook, Twitter, text messages, and cell phone recordings of the acts. The crime and ensuing legal proceedings generated considerable controversy and galvanized a national conversation about rape and rape culture. Two students and high school football players, Ma'lik Richmond and Trent Mays, both 16 at the time of the crime, were convicted in juvenile court for the rape of a minor. Additionally, three other adults have been indicted for obstructing the investigation into the rape, while Steubenville's superintendent of schools has been charged with hindering the investigation into a rape that took place earlier in 2012.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steubenville_High_School_rape_case


Quote:

Steubenville: this is rape culture's Abu Ghraib moment

The pictures from Steubenville don’t just show a girl being raped. They show that rape being condoned, encouraged, celebrated. What type of culture could possibly produce such pictures?

by Laurie Penny Published 19 March, 2013

It lasted for hours. The pictures circulated online show the unconscious teenage girl hung like a shot steer between two laughing young men, Trent Mays and Ma'lik Richmond, who were convicted this week of driving her from party to party, raping her, assaulting her, and filming themselves doing so. Videos from the night include an extended tape of a friend of the attackers in drunken spasms of joy about just how ‘dead’ the girl looked as she was handed around. “She’s deader than OJ’s wife!” he giggles to himself as his mates film him. It was sadistic young men like this with whom the mainstream media expressed immediate sympathy following the guilty verdict.

Here, there was no question that Mays and Richmond are guilty: there is enough film, photographic and text message evidence to make the case clear. The arguments in their defence, instead, revolve around the notion that these boys, beloved athletes in a town where football is everything, did nothing wrong when they assaulted their helpless victim. They are tragic heroes who were just having fun, like young men do, and the pictures prove it. Everyone looks so happy. High-profile rape cases have happened in American football towns many times before - remember the cheerleader who was forced to cheer for her rapist? - but Steubenville is different. The pictures make it different. What the Steubenville footage recalls most chillingly is the torture photographs from Abu Ghraib prison almost a decade earlier, showing American soldiers in Iraq smiling chummily around the prone bodies of political prisoners.

Steubenville is rape culture's Abu Ghraib moment. It’s the moment when America and the world are being forced, despite ourselves, to confront the real human horror of the rapes and sexual assaults that take place in their thousands every day in our communities.

Susan Sontag observed of the Abu Ghraib atrocities that "the horror of what is shown in the photographs cannot be separated from the horror that the photographs were taken - with the perpetrators posing, gloating, over their helpless captives. If there is something comparable to what these pictures show it would be some of the photographs of black victims of lynching taken between the 1880's and 1930's, which show Americans grinning beneath the naked mutilated body of a black man or woman hanging behind them from a tree. The lynching photographs were souvenirs of a collective action whose participants felt perfectly justified in what they had done. So are the pictures from Abu Ghraib."

The pictures from Steubenville don’t just show a girl being raped. They show that rape being condoned, encouraged, celebrated. What type of culture could possibly produce such pictures? Only one in which women's autonomy and right to safety counts for so little that these rapists, and those who held the cameras, felt themselves 'perfectly justified'. Only one in which rape and sexual humiliation of women and girls is so normalised that it does not register as a crime in the minds of the assailants. Only one in which victims are powerless, silenced, dismissed. It is impossible to imagine that in such a culture, assault and humiliation of this kind would not be routine - and indeed, the most conservative estimates suggest that ninety thousand women and ten thousand men are raped in the United States alone every year. That’s what makes the Steubenville case so very uncomfortable - and so important.

Here we have incontrovertible evidence of happy young people not only hurting and humiliating others, but taking pleasure in it, posing with their victims. The Abu Ghraib torture pictures were trophies. The Steubenville rape photos are trophies. They're mementoes of what must have felt, at the time, like everyone was having the sort of fun they'd want to remember, the sort of fun they'd want to prove to themselves and others later. The Steubenville rapists had fun, and they broadcast that fun to the world. They were confident that nothing could touch them, so baffled by the idea of punishment that they wept like children in court.

Pictures don't just record reality. They change it. They change us as we take them and consume them. It matters not just that we have photographic evidence of a girl being raped, but that someone took pictures of the assault happening to send to their friends as memories of a jolly night gone a bit hairy. The Ohio teenager who is now receiving death threats for reporting her rape is far from the only young woman to have her assault recorded for posterity. In the past five years, rapes and sexual assaults involving one or more attacker or involved bystander stepping back to pull out a smartphone have proliferated. What makes these men so sure of their inviolable right to stick their fingers and cocks into any part of any female they can hold down that they actually make and distribute images of each other doing so? Rape culture. That’s what rape culture is. The cultural acceptance of rape.

The Steubenville rapists claim that, when they drove a passed-out girl from party to party, slinging her into and out-of cars like a deflated sex-dolly and sticking their fingers inside her, they didn't know they were doing anything wrong. That's plausible, although it's no defence. It's a plausible if, and only if, you have internalised the assumption that women are not real human beings, just bodies to be manipulated with or without consent, pieces of wet and willing meat there for you to use for your pleasure. There's a word for what happens when one group of people sees another as less than human and insists on its right to hurt and humiliate them for fun. It’s an everyday word that is often misused to refer to something outside of ourselves. The word is ‘evil’.

This particular evil has been rotting at the fractious heart of Western culture for so long that it barely registers as abnormal, and the initial emotion when it is challenged is rage. Rage that anyone dare question the notion that men's 'bright futures' matter more than women's right not to be attacked and degraded. It's an evil that believes that men work and play sports and make an impact on the world and women are there to get fucked. America has been raised on that belief, and like any dogma it can turn ugly when challenged. Jane Doe, whose real name was revealed on Fox news yesterday, has been receiving death threats, and so have her family. After the verdict was handed down, the internet lit up with ugly messages of slut-shaming and solidarity with her attackers: “Remember, kids, if you’re drunk/slutty at a party and embarrassed later, just say you got raped!” wrote @jimmyontheradio. Another, @zJosiah, said: “I feel bad for the two young guys, Mays and Richmond, they did what most people in their situation would have done.”

Yes, it is possible to feel a sick spasm of pity for these young men whose tears in the courtroom were described at such melodramatic length by major news outlets. It is possible to feel pity for those who do violent acts, who hurt and shame others simply because they know nobody’s going to stop them and it seems like fun. Young people can get carried away in times of war, and here I include what we must surely think of in these circumstances as a gender war, especially when they’re on the winning team - and these boys were used to winning. Young people get carried away. But not always. And that ‘not always’ is where pity stops like bile in the throat.

In every situation where atrocity is normalised, in every death-camp and gulag and apartheid city, there are those who refuse to participate. The soldier who ignores the kill order. The prison guard who walks away. The families who risk their safety to shelter refugees. The men and boys who see rape and violence occurring and have the courage to say 'stop'....
http://www.newstatesman.com/laurie-penny/2013/03/steubenville-rape-cultures-abu-ghraib-moment

Your comments throughout this thread, including your offensive remarks to A2K members who described their own rape experiences in this thread, not only demonstrate the existence of a "rape culture", you are a perfect example of the attitudes that help to maintain it.

You show so little regard for those victimized by rape, I've come to the conclusion that you actually enjoy discussing the topic, that it's a turn-on for you, simply another form of pornography for you to enjoy. You're a sick old man who enjoys sadistic fantasies of drunk young women as "pieces of wet and willing meat there for you to use for your pleasure" and that's why you can't acknowledge the reality, and horror, of rape.

I repeat--your contempt for women is palbable.
panzade
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Apr, 2014 08:52 am
@firefly,
The article in the New York Times that you posted about FSU and Winston was all over cable last night.

Chris Hayes on MSNBC had Winston's lawyer on the hot seat and even Megan Kelly was handing O'Reily's ass to him on a plate when he proclaimed the government had no right to begin an investigation on FSU's handling of the rape investigation.

At stake is about $168 million dollars in federal funding.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Apr, 2014 09:13 am
@panzade,
I love that the federal government wish to have the rule of innocent unless proven otherwise not used when universities do their own investigation/hearing of charges of sexual misconduct.

If a woman charge a male student with sexual misconduct you are likely to need to kiss your good name and college career goodbye.

Quote:


http://www.theplainsman.com/view/full_story/24942853/article-Truth--justice-and-the-Auburn-way--Auburn-and-other-universities-restrict-legal-representation-in-Student-Discipline-Hearings-?instance=home_news_1st_right

Joshua Strange was a junior studying political science at Auburn University when he was expelled for sexual assault charges in November 2011.

At the time of his expulsion, Strange had two criminal charges pending against him: a misdemeanor for a third-degree assault and a felony for first-degree sodomy, according to his court-obtained defendant history.

After his expulsion, both of the charges were dropped.

Strange’s case thrust the University into public light after The Wall Street Journal published an investigative opinion piece Dec. 6, 2013 about his situation. Titled “An Education in College Justice,” by James Taranto, it accuses the University of wrongly convicting Strange.

Taranto attributes the expulsion to University administrators giving into pressures from Congress, which he reports threatened to revoke funding from public universities if they did not take a strict enough stance with Title IX infractions.

Title IX is a part of the 1972 education amendments and is most known for enforcing sexual equality within collegiate athletics. Its reach stretches beyond that, however, and addresses 10 major areas within a federally funded educational program that could be vulnerable to sexual discrimination. One of these key areas is sexual harassment. Of all the areas Title IX covers, the issue of sexual harassment has recently received the most attention from the media.

On Friday, April 11, the St. Louis Post-Dispatch reported the University of Missouri failed to act on information about the sexual assault of Sasha Menu Courey, who was a swimmer at Missouri. Courey committed suicide 15 months after she was allegedly raped by two football players during her freshman year. According to the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, Missouri lacked a policy for reporting sexual assault allegations, which is a requirement under federal guidelines.

On Friday, April 4, USA TODAY reported the U.S. Department of Education’s Office for Civil Rights opened an investigation of Florida State University. USA TODAY reported an FSU student said she was raped by Winston on Dec. 7, 2013, but the university allowed a lengthy delay to occur before conducting an investigation. OCR will investigate whether FSU’s handling of the Jameis Winston rape allegations violated Title IX laws. Winston was a favorite for Heisman trophy winner, which he ultimately won.

The New York Times also published an article on Wednesday, April 16, detailing discrepancies with FSU and the legal system that occurred during the Winston case.

While other universities are being investigated for not complying with Title IX regulations, the attention has turned to Auburn for possibly expelling a student without just cause.

Student Discipline Committee Hearings

Before he could be expelled, Strange had to be tried in a Student Discipline Hearing, which is a private trial overseen by the Student Discipline Committee.

While the committee consists of 13 faculty members and 12 student members, a five-member panel (two students, two faculty members and a committee chair) rotates hearing cases based on who is available and has no prior knowledge of the defendant or plaintiff.

According to Haven Hart, who was not director of student conduct at the time of Strange’s trial, but now serves in that capacity, members of the committee are selected through their various representative groups. For example, faculty members are selected and appointed by the faculty senate, and undergraduate student representatives are selected and appointed by the SGA.

Typically, the president of the University selects committee chairs, according to Hart.

During each hearing, the plaintiff and the defendant are allowed to have legal counsel present who can advise them outside the hearing. However, the Auburn University Code of Discipline does not allow legal counsels to speak or participate in any way.

“Because it’s a student conduct process and not a court of law, attorneys are not allowed to speak,” Hart said.

This leaves the defendant and the plaintiff to present their own evidence, call their own witnesses, cross-examine them and give their own opening and closing statements.

Strange’s Hearing before the SDC

Two students, a faculty member from the College of Liberal Arts and a faculty member from the department of fisheries heard Strange’s case. A University librarian served as the chair.

Strange was brought to trial before the Student Discipline Committee by an ex-girlfriend, who accused him of sexual battery. She declined to be interviewed for this story.

While the Student Discipline Committee received training through the University, some members of the committee who heard Strange’s case Nov. on 7, 2011, said they felt they lacked proper understanding for how to evaluate a case of this caliber.

“It is a very difficult situation to be in as a student on a student discipline committee because it ends up that you’re kind of volunteered [to overhear a trial],” said a student who served on the committee that heard Strange’s case. The student agreed to speak with The Plainsman on the condition of anonymity,

“I think the difficult part is that if you’re not aware of the legal system and how all that works, it can be very frustrating because you can be put in a position to make impactful decisions. I didn’t feel like I should be in a place where I should be able to make life-changing decisions for someone. It can be difficult because it’s a lot of pressure, and I didn’t feel like I had the right to be making those decisions. It’s not my place to call that.”

A recording of Strange’s hearing enforces the claim by the student committee member that the hearing was confusing to those involved. Throughout the recording, an unidentified person can be heard whispering instructions to the chair on how to proceed. Also, panelists repeatedly ask questions that had to be corrected and were then instructed to rephrase the question to be pertinent to the evidence presented.

“It was full of stress, and people’s interests were at stake on both sides,” said Tim Dodge, the committee chair for Strange’s case. “It was an extremely stressful experience because of the nature of the accusation and the potential nature of the sanctions that may be implied. That’s all I can say. I can’t say anymore.”

The hearing concluded with a ruling from the committee that Strange should be expelled from the University for violating the code of student discipline, which prohibits students from threatening and/or committing physical violence against another person.

University’s stance

Although a grand jury ruled they did not have enough evidence to convict Strange of a felony level charge, and the third-degree assault charge brought against him was dropped when the accuser failed to show in court, the University was not under obligation to reconsider its decision to expel him.

As per Title IX regulations, the Student Discipline Committee used a lower burden of proof to convict Strange than what is required in a criminal court. By this standard, the evidence only needs to prove the defendant is more than likely guilty or not guilty.

Provisions in the Student Code of Discipline excuse the University from making decisions based on the outcome of a court hearing. The code states, “Proceedings of the University Discipline Committee may be instituted against a student charged with conduct that potentially violates both the criminal law and this Discipline Code without regard to the pendency of civil or criminal litigation in court or criminal arrest and prosecution.

“Determinations made or sanctions imposed under this discipline code shall not be subject to change because criminal charges arising out of the same facts giving rise to violation of University rules were dismissed, reduced or resolved in favor of or against the criminal law defendant.”

While the University can make the decision to expel someone who is under investigation for a crime without waiting to hear the court’s ruling, the University is under no obligation to reconsider its ruling once the legal outcome has been released.

Similar language can be found in the Code of Student Discipline for the University of Alabama, the University of North Carolina Chapel Hill and Texas A&M University. However, at Alabama a member of the press is allowed to be present during student disciplinary hearings per request of the defendant or plaintiff. At UNC, students are not allowed to hear sexual assault cases, and a member of the media is allowed at all student disciplinary hearings.

“Dear Colleague” Letter

The language indicating the University can act independently of court outcomes was enforced April 4, 2011, eight months before Strange’s hearing, by Congress when the Office Civil Rights within the Department of Education issued a Dear Colleague Letter to all educational institutions receiving federal funding.

A Dear Colleague Letter is a way for Congress to officially correspond with other offices about a bill or resolution. The purpose of this Dear Colleague Letter was to reinforce Title IX regulations.

The 20-page letter reminds all entities receiving state funding they must take a firm stance against any sort of sexual discrimination - especially sexual harassment. It reminds recipients to judge all sexual assault cases brought before it using a low burden of proof.

It also reminds them they should not wait for the conclusion of a criminal trial to begin its own disciplinary proceedings.

The OCR states in the letter if it finds a school has not taken necessary steps to respond to sexual harassment or violence, it may “initiate proceedings to withdraw Federal funding by the Department or refer the case to the U.S. Department of Justice for litigation,” as is happening in the Winston case at FSU.

Haven Hart, who was not the director of student conduct during the time of Strange’s case but has served in student discipline for more than a decade, stated that she could not speak to whether this Dear Colleague Letter added a certain level of pressure to student discipline.

As investigations for Title IX infractions continue to arise across the country, student disciplinary hearings continue to occur and students continue to put in positions to judge these cases.

“You do what you feel like has to be done, whether you agree with it or not,” said the student who sat on the discipline committee for Strange’s case.


Read more: The Auburn Plainsman - Truth justice and the Auburn way Auburn and other universities restrict legal representation in Student Discipline Hearings
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Fri 18 Apr, 2014 09:37 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
If a woman charge a male student with sexual misconduct you are likely to need to kiss your good name and college career goodbye

That was hardly the case, or the outcome, with Jameis Winston at Florida State University.

Are you saying that women should never report that a male student has engaged in sexual misconduct, because it is more important to protect the "good name and college career" of these men than it is to investigate possible instances of sexual assault?

Do you think FSC conducted a proper investigation regarding the allegations against Jameis Winston?
0 Replies
 
wmwcjr
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Apr, 2014 11:42 am
@firefly,
firefly wrote:
. . . your offensive remarks to A2K members who described their own rape experiences in this thread . . .


Really? That's amazing. I didn't know that. Pathetic!

I personally have known two victims of rape. (I may have known other victims who preferred to not tell.) The first was a young woman who had been repeatedly raped as a very young girl by one of her grandfathers. (I supposed she must have tempted him by wearing "immodest apparel." For anyone who might not "get it," that's a sarcastic statement.) The other is a man who had suffered a nervous breakdown when he was in high school. He was forcibly sodomized by another inmate in the psychiatric ward -- a man in his forties who, because of his considerably greater physical strength, was able to overpower him. Decades after the crime, these two victims continued to suffer the aftereffects of their trauma. The rapes had a devastating impact in their lives. I haven't seen the first victim in years, but I know the second victim continues to have nightmares about his rape to this very day. Therapy was not available in the late 1960s for victims of male-on-male rape. I should add that rape can also have an extremely adverse effect upon the loved ones of the victim. For example, the young woman's marriage fell apart when she had begun to experience flashbacks. Her husband and their young daughter were deeply hurt by the breakup of their family. So, rape is not a laughing matter, a subject to be exploited by comedians. I have absolutely no tolerance for the rape culture or those who defend it or deny it even exists.

Carry on, firefly. I don't have the stomach for it. Having even a forum exchange with someone who subscribes to this sort of sick mindset is like trying to reason with a member of the Ku Klux Klan. It's an exercise in futility.

wmwcjr
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Apr, 2014 12:07 pm
@firefly,
Let us not forget that in the Steubenville case the two rapists received sympathy from leading personalities in the media such as Candy Crowley and Poppy Harlow. (Isn't it interesting that some of the supporters of the rape culture are women?) What is particularly outrageous is that the victim continues to be persecuted (even to the point of receiving death threats) despite the "guilty" verdict. That's how the rape culture works. It's evidence of a sick society.
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Fri 18 Apr, 2014 12:18 pm
Quote:

Sen. McCaskill sends out ‘unprecedented’ survey about campus rape to colleges
By Diana Reese
April 15, 2014

As the next step in looking at what to do about the problem of sexual assault on campus, Sen. Claire McCaskill (D-Mo.) is sending out an extensive survey to 350 college and university presidents across the country.

McCaskill turned her attention to sexual assault on the nation’s campuses after sponsoring successful legislation in the Senate overhauling the military’s policies in handling sexual assault.

She sees similarities in the two areas, she said in an interview with She the People on Tuesday.

“There’s a closed environment where victims feel more under a microscope than they might were they not in that closed environment like a military base or a college campus,” McCaskill said. “We’re also dealing with young women who, I think, many times second-guess themselves and worry and think they’re responsible or partially responsible for being victimized.”

She’s starting with the issue of campus sexual assault the same way she did with the military, she said, “with a great deal of research.” Last week McCaskill met with representatives of the departments of Justice and Education.

This week her Senate Subcommittee on Financial and Contracting Oversight is sending out an 18-page survey to 350 college presidents, a survey that she says is “unprecedented” in its scope. Detailed information is sought from a cross-section of public and private, large and small, colleges and universities.

“The auditor in me understands the value that surveys have, especially if they are comprehensive and especially if they’re forwarded to people under some kind of official capacity, like my subcommittee has,” McCaskill said.

She’s not trying to single out any particular institution but wants “an accurate picture of what processes, systems and services are in place right now.”

One of those problem areas is jurisdiction. Many campuses have their own law enforcement, so who handles the complaint of rape and what is the communication with the municipal police? And with the prosecutor?

“The key is do women know where to go to report and when they do, are they getting the services they need?” McCaskill asked.

Then there’s “the pressure administrators feel to not show all their dirty laundry,” McCaskill said. “Sometimes that comes as inappropriate protection of athletes and sometimes it comes just because they don’t want anyone to think that their college campus is not perfectly safe.”

“It’s time everyone does a gut-check and realizes hiding these statistics is not going to make this problem any better,” she said. “If we don’t know how big this problem is, we can never hope to solve it.”

As many as 19 percent of college women, with freshman at the highest risk, may have been victims of sexual assault.

After collecting the data, McCaskill says the next step will be roundtable discussions with victims and rape survivors’ groups and with prosecutors, campus police, university administrators and Title IX officers.

She’s not sure what type of legislation or mandates may be needed in addition to Title IX and the Clery Act, which cover sexual assault, and what kind of enforcement and punishment.

“The ultimate penalty is removal of all student aid and federal aid,” she said. “But that punishes innocent students.” Instead, removal of the ability to compete in athletics or imposing monetary fines might be more “realistic.”

Survey results are due in her office by May 7. She suspects she’ll find “a patchwork of processes and systems,” with services that students are unaware of, and “dysfunction” between campus and city police departments and prosecutors, and a “reluctance to empower victims.”

Attitudes toward what constitutes rape is part of the problem as well, and has been for “decades and decades,” McCaskill said.

“It’s just as criminal to rape someone at the point of a gun as it is someone passed out and unconscious,” McCaskill said. “It is the same crime. It is no different.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/she-the-people/wp/2014/04/15/sen-mccaskill-sends-out-unprecedented-survey-on-campus-rape-to-college-presidents/
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Fri 18 Apr, 2014 01:23 pm
@wmwcjr,
Quote:
Carry on, firefly. I don't have the stomach for it. Having even a forum exchange with someone who subscribes to this sort of sick mindset is like trying to reason with a member of the Ku Klux Klan. It's an exercise in futility.


LOL it is fun trying to figure out what untruth Firefly is putting out now with her posting being block.

She can not deal with the arguments being put forward without turning to personal attacks.

The only challenge I ever make toward any woman personal account of rape predate this thread by years so I guess that what she is reaching back in time for.

My guess is this personal attack central on five years or so ago when a woman here told the story of a woman being beaten by her husband if she did not have a sexual organisms during intercourse but was otherwise a good nd even loving mate in her own words.

My comment was why the hell would such a person not just pretend to have an organism if she would for some strange reason not just leave him.

Seems at the time a logical question on that story.

Next thing little old me knew I was being attacked as unknown to me the lady who posted that story was claiming to be the victim not just the repeater of a story that to this day does not made a lot of sense to me.

This lady also claimed to had been a victim of sexual assaults dating back to early childhood by a whole group of males, father, brother, cousins,boyfriends and so on.

I never question/challenge her others claims of outrageous and ongoing lifetime sexual abused nor would I had comment about her being beaten by her husband in a questioning manner for not coming during sex if I have known this was another of her claims of personal abuse.

Firefly does a lot of reaching to find means of personal attacks.

Now as far as you and your own sick mind set are concern you must consider almost all males to be would be rapists hold barely in check by the law if you think that it is at all likely that six young men with nothing in common but belonging to the same college sport team would get together to set up a young woman and raping her because of one of then was holding a grudge against her.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Fri 18 Apr, 2014 01:26 pm
@wmwcjr,
Quote:
Supporters of the rape culture are women?)


You do know that reported rapes are at a 33 to 34 years low in the US by way of the FBI data base?

So what rape culture?
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Fri 18 Apr, 2014 02:40 pm
@wmwcjr,
Quote:
Carry on, firefly. I don't have the stomach for it. Having even a forum exchange with someone who subscribes to this sort of sick mindset is like trying to reason with a member of the Ku Klux Klan. It's an exercise in futility.

I think BillRM's only value in this thread is that he typifies that "sick mindset"--one doesn't even have to question the existence of a rape culture, he illustrates it. He personifies it.

Oh, I wouldn't bother trying to reason with him, that is an exercise in futility.

This topic is too important to be sidelined by his personal issues and his obsession with trying to deny, and rationalize, and "normalize" sexual assaults, and with blaming victims for their own rapes. And the goal should be, not to change his mind, but simply to keep him from derailing the topic so he can harp on his personal obsessions. He actually has no interest in seriously addressing the issue of rape--actual rapes--he's monumentally preoccupied with non-rapes--false accusations--and trivializing the importance of rape (rape statistics are exaggerated, rapes are at an all time low, etc.). When presented with the stark, and disturbing, reality of a case, like the Steubenville rape, he can't even address it, he just ignores it and rather mindlessly goes on to blame women for destroying the "good name and college careers" of men if they report their sexual assaults. Rolling Eyes You can't have a discussion of this topic with someone like that--he's not listening. He's focused only on promoting his own personal agenda, which seems fueled by a good deal of contempt for women. And that's been true of his comments throughout this entire thread.

Again, I feel the goal should be, not to change BillRM's mind, but simply to keep him from derailing the topic so he can harp on his personal obsessions. So, personally, wmwcjr, I'd rather not see you leave this thread because of him--just step over him.

I'm glad that Sen. McCaskill has begun gathering data regarding sexual assaults, and policies, on college campuses. That's an important step. And Sen. Gillibrand is also helping to focus attention on this issue, as are several members of the House.
Quote:
April 17, 2014
McCaskill Takes Fight Against Sexual Assault To Campus
By Dale Singer

After working to reduce problems with sexual assault in the military, U.S. Sen. Claire McCaskill, D-Mo., is turning her attention to the same issue at the nation’s colleges and universities.

Both settings, she said Thursday, have ways they are alike in how such cases are treated.

“People feel they’re under the microscope,” she told reporters after sitting in on a training session for personnel at Saint Louis University. “They feel that if they come forward, not only could there be repercussions in terms of their being challenged, but how they’re viewed by their colleagues and peers on campus or on base.

“There were so many similarities that I realized all of the problems we were addressing in the military system, we needed to take a look at all of those issues on college campuses.”

Issues of sexual assault on campus have drawn increased attention at the University of Missouri because of the case of Sasha Menu Courey. The one-time swimmer on the Columbia campus committed suicide in 2011; it later surfaced that she had said she was raped, possibly by a football player, more than a year before she took her life.

Tim Wolfe, president of the four-campus university system, has moved aggressively to make sure that the proper procedures and attitudes are in place so that students feel comfortable reporting such incidents. A recent report commissioned by the Board of Curators said the university may not have done anything illegal, but it did not have the mechanisms in place that federal law calls for.

McCaskill, who cited her experience both as a prosecutor and as an auditor, said that under federal Title IX, colleges and universities need to have a process in place that makes it easy for students to report any problems and be confident that the school will follow through, thoroughly and with sensitivity.

She has sent a lengthy survey to schools asking about their personnel and procedures in such cases. Answers will be confidential, she said, so she is confident that it will be accurate.

“This is about good data,” she said. “This is not about 'gotcha'. None of these universities is going to be exposed for any of the information they give us. So the good, the bad and the ugly is only going to allow us to make better decisions. It’s not going to call anybody out.”

After getting the information back, she said, laws may have to be strengthened to make sure the goals of Title IX are met.

“It’s complex,” McCaskill said, “and that’s why it’s really important that we don’t shoot from the hip on this subject. You could come up with some provision that you want to change the law about and get a lot of attention around it, and frankly that’s probably not going to change much.”

The problems, she added, are varied, involving schools, communities and the students themselves.

“One of the big challenges,” she said, “is jurisdiction, the conflict between university policy departments and municipal police departments. The fact is that most of these cases are not stranger cases. The defense in these cases is consent. So you have the issue of incapacitation with alcohol. You have the issue of self-doubt with victims.

“So a lot of it is making sure that victims get to the right place, get the right information and the right support services, and then that there is a seamless communication between law enforcement and public safety on campus and law enforcement and public safety that’s responsible for prosecutions.”

Among the student body, McCaskill said, changes also are needed.

“A lot of this is educating young women, and young men, about what the crime is,” she said, and that just because they maybe had bad judgment about how much they drank, that doesn’t mean somebody can commit a felony. That’s not a free pass.”

Once that hurdle is overcome, McCaskill said, anyone who wants to press a claim needs to be able to navigate the system easily.

“It really comes back to the basic notion of do victims know where they can go, do they know where they can get good information and are they getting the support they need to encourage them to come out of the shadows and hold their perpetrators accountable,” she said.

Too much whack-a-mole

When college athletes are involved, she added, the issue takes on a whole new dimension.

“There’s no question that there have been some ugly episodes around protecting athletes at some universities around the country,” she said. “But I think it’s more likely that most universities are hampered by frankly not taking all of this as seriously as they should, in terms of reporting.

“And there are problems with the collision of state laws and federal laws that sometimes conflict with one another. You might have a state law that says you can’t share that information, and then you have a federal law that requires that you share that information. So sorting all that out is what we’re trying to do. Can we do the structure of laws and regulations in a way that will help universities do a better job.”

McCaskill said she thinks schools are generally sincere in trying to address the problem.

“I don’t think there’s really any competent university that wants to sweep this problem under the rug,” she said. “Because in the long run, when you do that, the problem just gets bigger. Kids on campus know, and their families know. So you don’t really hide it. All you do is wait for it to break out in a very ugly way that reflects poorly on the institution.”

Asked whether harsher penalties are needed, perhaps in terms of money, McCaskill said any sanctions have to be realistic.

“I don’t think when you threaten a university that you’re going to take away all of their student loan funding, that is taken very seriously,” she said. “Because you’re not going to punish thousands of innocent students by taking away their student loans because the university mishandled something or because there was a case that wasn’t reported accurately.”

And, she added, the issue has to be addressed on a more coordinated basis, not piecemeal.

“The way they’re doing this now is a little bit like whack-a-mole,” McCaskill said, “where the resources at the Department of Justice and the Department of Education are limited enough that they’ll go to one university and get a result, and then they’ll go to another university and get a result. Meanwhile, there’s this undercurrent at lots of universities where they don’t even have a Title IX officer identified.”

Underlying everything, she emphasized, is the need for victims to know they will be taken seriously and for schools to make sure the structure is in place to make victims feel heard.

“There’s no question,” McCaskill said, “that one of the biggest hurdles we have is making sure that young women and young men who come to college campuses understand what rape really is, and when they have been raped. There’s this notion that I don’t want anything to happen, I just don’t want to ever have to see him again.

Very rarely does someone rape only one time. For every victim who decides to keep it a secret, there’s probably going to be another victim that’s going to keep it a secret. That may go on for a long time until someone has the courage to step out of the shadows. What my work is is to try to make sure we give them every tool possible to give them the confidence to step out of the shadows.”

http://news.stlpublicradio.org/post/mccaskill-takes-fight-against-sexual-assault-campus




0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Apr, 2014 03:19 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
“We’re also dealing with young women who, I think, many times second-guess themselves and worry and think they’re responsible or partially responsible for being victimized.”


They are dealing with women who are not ready to disregard any concern that men be treated justly, which is certainly a "problem".
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Fri 18 Apr, 2014 03:43 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
They are dealing with women who are not ready to disregard any concern that men be treated justly, which is certainly a "problem".

I think that assuring just treatment of both those who lodge complaints, and those who are accused, is part of Sen. McCaskill's goal. That's why she needs the information regarding college policies.

But fairly young women, particularly college Freshman (who are more likely to be sexually assaulted), may well "second-guess themselves and worry and think they’re responsible or partially responsible for being victimized" and that may well keep them from reporting incidents of sexual assault. Sen McCaskill, quite rightly, wants to see more education regarding the crime of rape in order to help counter the blame-the-victim mentality that even real victims might engage in. She very clearly wants to see more victims coming out of the shadows and reporting their assaults.

Obviously, the Senator wants to see a number of problems better addressed. Her survey seems to be a good start. Hopefully it will yield useful data.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Apr, 2014 03:55 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
I think that assuring just treatment of both those who lodge complaints, and those who are accused, is part of Sen. McCaskill's goal. That's why she needs the information regarding college policies.


She is part of the federal government, which I remind you is pushing to bar any person (almost always a man) accused of sexual misconduct from campus thus effectively ending their enrollment WITH OUT SO MUCH AS A HEARING.

Quote:
counter the blame-the-victim mentality that even real victims might engage in.
the problem is that the victim is determined before the facts are evaluated. "dont blame the victim" sounds great till you realize that what is really being said is " dont question the one who claims to be a victim".

Quote:
Her survey seems to be a good start. Hopefully it will yield useful data.
Campus sexual behavior has been studied to death, as well as University regulation of such. This is yet another time consuming and expensive lesson the universities that Washington wants them to get on with institution of more aggressive anti male sexual supervision.

firefly
 
  2  
Reply Fri 18 Apr, 2014 04:08 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
This is yet another time consuming and expensive lesson the universities that Washington wants them to get on with institution of more aggressive anti male sexual supervision.

I think that the ultimate goal is to reduce the incidence of sexual assaults/rapes involving college students, and I see nothing in Sen. McCaskill's statements that translates into "more aggressive anti male sexual supervision".

But, since you see all laws and policies designed to deter sexual assaults as inherently "anti-male", your views on this matter are hardly surprising.

Quote:
what is really being said is " dont question the one who claims to be a victim".

No, I don't think that's what's being said. I think it's more a matter of not immediately challenging the credibility of someone (male or female) who reports a sexual assault--don't immediately start questioning and investigating them --simply take the report, take the alleged victim seriously, and provide them with any needed services, and then investigate the complaint, not the complainant. The idea is to encourage the reporting, not discourage it, if the goal is to deter sexual assaults/rapes.



0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Apr, 2014 06:19 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
This is yet another time consuming and expensive lesson the universities that Washington wants them to get on with institution of more aggressive anti male sexual supervision.


Not only anti male but an ongoing attacks on normal young males/females hetrosexaul sexual courtship behaviors.

 

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