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Hey, Can A Woman "Ask To Get Raped"?

 
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Sep, 2013 03:12 pm
Quote:
Vanderbilt rape case: Graphic details emerge during Chris Boyd's hearing

Plea deal allows Boyd to avoid felony conviction
Sep. 13, 2013

A plea deal in court Friday morning led to the first major revelations about a growing Vanderbilt University rape scandal, a case prosecutors say involves multiple attempts at a cover-up by players, possible cocaine use by a top recruit and the participation of the team’s starting quarterback in moving the unconscious rape victim back into the dorm room of one of her attackers.

Vanderbilt wide receiver Chris Boyd, 21, of Roswell, Ga., pleaded guilty to a reduced charge of trying to help cover up the June 23 rape of a 21-year-old Vanderbilt student in a dorm room. The plea deal allows Boyd to escape a felony conviction, any time spent in jail and a permanent mark on his record — so long as he testifies against four teammates charged with rape and stays out of trouble for a year.

The plea also opened the door to new, disturbing details about the early morning hours of June 23, when prosecutors say four of Boyd’s former teammates raped the student while she was unconscious. Deputy District Attorney General Tom Thurman said in court that Boyd, Vanderbilt tight end Dillon van der Wal and starting quarterback Austyn Carta-Samuels carried the partially nude woman from a hallway where she had been dumped back into the room of one of the men prosecutors say sexually assaulted her.

Those details drew Vanderbilt University even deeper into the rape case, prompting officials there to address prosecutors’ allegations that their tight end and star quarterback not only had information about the rape, but were actually in the dorm shortly after it happened.

“As of this date, no additional players have been suspended or dismissed from the football team. Vanderbilt is monitoring the criminal process,” wrote Beth Fortune, vice chancellor for public affairs, when asked about the inclusion of van der Wal and Carta-Samuels in prosecutors’ account of the rape.

Later Friday, she released an additional statement reading, “As new information becomes available, we will review it and take appropriate action.”

Before boarding a plane to South Carolina, Vanderbilt football coach James Franklin declined to discuss Boyd’s future or any of the in-court allegations involving the two players still on Vanderbilt’s roster.

“I can’t talk about anything other than the South Carolina game,” he said. When pressed about the team’s tight end and quarterback, he replied, “All the statements have been made from the university at this time.”

Van der Wal and Carta-Samuels have been previously listed by prosecutors in court records as witnesses in the rape case.

'He is paying for that decision'

Boyd, who was dressed in a dark suit at the hearing, responded only with, “Yes, sir” to a series of questions from Judge Steve Dozier as to whether he understood the guilty plea. He could have faced up to two years in prison on a felony charge of accessory after the fact.

“He’s a 21-year-old young man that was forced with making a decision in a situation that he did not fully understand,” his attorney, Roger May, said after the plea hearing. “He is paying for that decision, and he will be paying for it the rest of his life.”

At the hearing, Thurman offered the first detailed look into what happened that morning in the dorm room of star football recruit Brandon Vandenburg. In reading a statement he had prepared in advance, he said that Vandenburg, 20, had been out with the woman at the Tin Roof bar and brought her back to his dorm room at Gillette Hall.

There, Thurman said, Vandenburg was joined by three teammates: Cory Batey, 19, of Nashville; Brandon Eric Banks, 19, from Brandywine, Md.; and Jaborian McKenzie, 18, from Woodville, Miss. Thurman said they raped the woman, unconscious by that time, and that Vandenburg sent a text to Boyd showing her being sodomized with an object. Vandenburg then called Boyd, telling him she had been “messed with in the hall” and sexually assaulted in his room. Thurman said Vandenburg told Boyd he was on cocaine when the sexual assaults occurred.

When Vandenburg asked Boyd for help, Thurman said, Boyd came to Vandenburg’s room.

Once there, he found the woman in the hallway, passed out and “not fully clothed.” In a text message read by Thurman, Boyd indicated that van der Wal and Carta-Samuels helped move the woman from the hallway back into Vandenburg’s dorm room.

“Nah she doesn’t know anything that happened but she passed out in Vandenburg’s bed,” read a text message from Boyd to Batey, according to Thurman. “Me Carta and Vanderwall (sic) and Vandenburg helped us move her out the hallway.”

“Tell him don’t say nothing to anybody,” Batey responded, according to Thurman.

Earlier came texts from Boyd, urging Vandenburg to delete a video of the incident.

“Tell ur boys to delete that (expletive). I’m looking out for your ass,” Boyd texted to Vandenburg, Thurman said. “And tell your roommate he didn’t see (expletive).”

Thurman said Boyd lied to authorities at first about the case, but later talked candidly with police and prosecutors.

That cooperation became key in the plea negotiation. After the hearing, Thurman declined to say how important Boyd’s testimony could be, but made it clear that he would expect it if the case goes to trial.

“Obviously what we do in the judicial system is try to do justice and do what we think is fair,” Thurman said. “Mr. Boyd has an exemplary record pretty much. You know, he’s going to Vanderbilt to school and we felt it would be significant if maybe he could complete his education. And as long as he’s now cooperating with authorities fully and will testify in the more serious case … .”

He didn’t finish his sentence.

Additional arrests not anticipated

The more serious case refers to Vandenburg, Batey, Banks and McKenzie, each charged with five counts of aggravated rape and two counts of aggravated sexual battery in the rape of that woman. Vandenburg also is charged with one count of unlawful photography and tampering with evidence. All four are free on bond and scheduled to appear in court on Oct. 16.

Two of Vandenburg’s friends from California, Miles Finley, 19, of Bermuda Dunes, Calif., and Joseph Quinzio, 20, of Palm Desert, Calif., are charged with tampering with evidence in the case. Both are awaiting extradition in California.

Thurman said after Friday’s hearing that he didn’t anticipate any additional arrests or charges in the case, including against Vanderbilt’s coach. He acknowledged an online rumor that Franklin knew more than he has publicly acknowledged, but only to shoot it down.

“There’s been allegations about Coach Franklin. We just wanted to state clearly that there’s no evidence whatsoever where Coach Franklin was involved in any way in the cover-up or has done anything inappropriate. He’s cooperated with us,” Thurman said.

“Now if someone is out there that feels they have knowledge of criminal conduct by someone at Vanderbilt they should come forward and tell the police that.”

Franklin’s attorney, Hal Hardin, praised authorities for not only convicting the guilty, but “protecting the innocent.”

“One of the most difficult things that any person can go through is to be the victim of rumors, unfounded rumors, and know that you’re innocent,” Hardin said of Franklin. “Some folks probably owe him an apology for spreading those rumors, but he has weathered it like the true champion he is.”

McKenzie's brief time at Alcorn

None of the four charged are currently playing football. McKenzie, who is free on $50,000 bond, transferred and played in a game Saturday at Alcorn State University in Mississippi. But he was removed from that team Thursday night by the university president, who said the school had made a mistake in allowing him to play.

His relatively low bond amount has been interpreted to mean he is cooperating with authorities, and officials at Alcorn have said as much in defending his brief participation on their team.

It’s unclear if Boyd will be able to don a Vanderbilt uniform again. Vanderbilt University spokeswoman Beth Fortune said Boyd will remain suspended from the team pending further review of his status. He remains on academic scholarship and has been attending classes.

He’ll be on unsupervised probation until Sept. 12, 2014, and will be expected to pay court costs, which were not yet calculated in records of his plea agreement.

“Mr. Boyd is an individual that found himself in a situation that he did not create,” said May, his attorney. “He made some mistakes in handling or attempting to help that situation. He has learned a painful lesson.”

http://www.tennessean.com/article/20130913/NEWS03/309130145
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Sun 15 Sep, 2013 03:14 pm
@mysteryman,
What is even more fun to think about is if both the male and the female are beyond some legal standard of granting valid consent, then it would seem logical that both of them would be guilt of sexual assault and both should end up behind jail cell bars.

Of course by Firefly thinking if you can call it thinking only the man would be guilt under such a situation as a woman are child like when it come to sexual relationship with a man.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Sep, 2013 03:17 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
...claims by the alleged victim alone can not be enough since humans lie...

That's why all allegations of sexual abuse merit thorough investigation. Those who commit rape and sexual assault lie as well--they claim the sex was "consenting" when that was not the case.

What went on in Steubenville was not consensual sex. From all indications, what went on at Vanderbilt was not consensual sex.

The significant question is why young men would feel entitled to treat females in this manner?

And why would they want to take photographs and videos of these women being assaulted?
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Sep, 2013 03:29 pm
@firefly,
I dont think anyone has said that what happened in Steubenville was not rape,at least I havent seen that claim made.

However, there have been cases where a woman instigates sex,then cries rape later.
There was the Annapolis midshipman that was in his rack asleep when a drunk female climbed into his rack and started having sex with him.
She later accused him of rape.
He was kicked out of the academy, if Iremember correctly.

What, in your opinion, should have happened to her?
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Sep, 2013 03:37 pm
@mysteryman,
My understanding is that Annapolis midshipman are not allowed to have any sex partners in their beds--or other people in their beds--and if someone climbs into their bed, they should report them and have them removed, without having sexual contact with them. Did the young man in question do that?

If a drunken woman tries to instigate sex with a man, he should carefully consider whether he will be in violation of sexual assault laws if he has contact with her.

Why do young men, like those in Steubenville, and at Vanderbilt, feel entitled to sexually abuse and demean women in this way? And why would they want to document their debasement of these women by photographing and videotaping their actions?

hawkeye10
 
  2  
Reply Sun 15 Sep, 2013 03:42 pm
@firefly,
firefly wrote:



If a drunken woman tries to instigate sex with a man, he should carefully consider whether he will be in violation of sexual assault laws if he has contact with her.

right, because at the end of the day it is not what the woman wants that matters, it is what the state wants. the state is systematically removing from the citizens the right to our own sexual will and privacy.
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Sep, 2013 03:45 pm
@hawkeye10,
Do you think the state should ignore horrendous sexual assault crimes, like those at Steubenville and Vanderbilt, because the women can't recall what was done to them?

Where is the "privacy" when a woman is not only raped and sexually assaulted, photos and videos of these acts are taken, passed around, and sometimes posted on the social media?
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Sep, 2013 03:54 pm
@firefly,
firefly wrote:

Do you think the state should ignore horrendous sexual assault crimes, like those at Steubenville and Vanderbilt, because the women can't recall what was done to them?



I think that the state should take all relavant information into account, to include the known sexual practices of both the alleged victim and the alleged abuser. Justice demands thus.
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Sep, 2013 03:57 pm
@hawkeye10,
"Sexual practices" have nothing to do with it. The only thing the state should take into account is whether sexual assault laws have been violated--that's what justice demands.

Do you think the behavior of the young men involved in the rapes at Steubenville and Vanderbilt reflected their usual sexual practices? Possibly. That would suggest they may have also sexually assaulted many other women before that, they just weren't caught before.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Sep, 2013 04:05 pm
@firefly,
firefly wrote:

"Sexual practices" have nothing to do with it. The only thing the state should take into account is whether sexual assault laws have been violated--that's what justice demands.


wrong, the first thing that must be considered is whether the law is just. the second thing is whether the law is the will of the people. the government has no jurisdiction to impose its sexual morality upon us, which it is most certainly doing, in partnership with the feminists.
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Sep, 2013 04:11 pm
@hawkeye10,
Oh, cut the crap. The sexual assault laws are passed by state legislators the people voted into office. These laws do reflect the will of the people. They have been in effect for a long time, and there is no ground-swell calling for their repeal. And most of the alleged feminists who voted these laws into effect, and support them, are men.

I notice you can't deal with actual rape cases like those in Steubenville and at Vanderbilt. Why is that, Hawkeye?

hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Sep, 2013 04:18 pm
@firefly,
it will take time to get the government out if our sex lives except for rape rape, right now the fight is to keep the government overstep from getting worse.

re those two cases I have not been following them. I gather that one of them has admission and recorded evidence of sex on an alcohol incapacitated female, which would be rape rape and would meet my standards of evidence of a crime.
BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 15 Sep, 2013 04:20 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
in partnership with the feminists


Real Feminists wish men and women to be view as equals under the law and not having special protections for women in sexual matter or in any other area.

You can not grant special protections to women without taking their adulthood rights away at the same time.

Real Feminists support the idea of having an ERA.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 15 Sep, 2013 04:26 pm
@mysteryman,
Quote:
He was kicked out of the academy, if Iremember correctly


He was not kicked out however he needed to face a full blown court marshal with a possible sentence of decades of hard labor in military prison if he had been found guilt as charge.

Thankfully he was found innocent instead but it is hardly an ideal way to start your military career and it was all due to the young lady regretting losing her virginity on her 18 birthday by sex at a party after the fact.

0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Sep, 2013 04:27 pm
@hawkeye10,
rape= sex that does not meet the government's demanded standards of consent

rape rape= sexual violation involving insertion of something into an orifice.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Sep, 2013 04:32 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
rape= sex that does not meet the government's demanded standards of consent

rape rape= sexual violation involving insertion of something into an orifice.

rape=however that act is defined by the sexual assault laws of your state. Your personal definitions are meaningless. Sorry, Hawkeye, you cannot make up your own laws.
Quote:
re those two cases I have not been following them...

I've posted enough information on both of them so you could follow them. In the Steubenville case, there have already been convictions.
Quote:
I gather that one of them has admission and recorded evidence of sex on an alcohol incapacitated female, which would be rape rape and would meet my standards of evidence of a crime...

And, what do you think impels young men to record the evidence of such crimes? It's certainly not done with the intention of having evidence that can be used to convict them. So, why do you think they take these photos and videos of their sexual abuse of a woman? And then they pass these images around, and, in some instances, post them on the social media. What do you think that's about?

Imagine how many other sexual assaults, of a similar nature, occur, where there is no recorded evidence to help convict the perpetrators. I doubt the situations in Steubenville and at Vanderbilt were isolated occurrences--these guys were just the ones that got caught on a particular night.

hawkeye10
 
  2  
Reply Sun 15 Sep, 2013 05:00 pm
@firefly,
people routinely keep evidence of their crimes as trophies, just as one possibility. the state should be very happy when the perps help them out, but this has no barings on standards of proof. where the state can not prove that a crime took place then it must assume that no crime took place not that it did.....the fricken Constitution demands it. if the state finds that it is writing laws that it rarely can prosecute because they cant meet their standards of proof then it has written bad law and should change it. if the police could only catch the stupid criminals then we would know that poor quality cops was the problem...same idea, our sex laws generally are very poorly written even by modern American "justice" system standards.
BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 15 Sep, 2013 05:11 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
that it is writing laws that it rarely can prosecute because they cant meet their standards of evidence then it has written bad law and should change it.


The problem is that the state are prosecuting those charges counting on the fact that only in five percents or so of the time do they need to proved their case before a jury.

Doing the overcharging thing and then offering a plead deal for must less time, and for those without the funds to make bail they would need to sit in jail for a year or so waiting for a trial making a plead deal look even more appealing.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Sep, 2013 05:15 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Quote:
that it is writing laws that it rarely can prosecute because they cant meet their standards of evidence then it has written bad law and should change it.


The problem is that the state are prosecuting those charges counting on the fact that only in five percents or so of the time do they need to proved their case before a jury.

Doing the overcharging thing and then offering a plead deal for must less time, and for those without the funds to make bail they would need to sit in jail for a year or so waiting for a trial making a plead deal look even more appealing.


and this is the same government that has zero problem standing on their soapbox moralizing to us with fire and brimstone sermons on bullying. and these damn fools dont understand why the
people are increasingly hostile towards government, you could not write a better farce with the best Hollywood script writters.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Sep, 2013 05:22 pm
@hawkeye10,
Well, they did prosecute in the Steubenville case, and they are now prosecuting in the Vanderbilt case.
0 Replies
 
 

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