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Hey, Can A Woman "Ask To Get Raped"?

 
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Sep, 2013 05:37 am
@BillRM,
Your definition is that once a woman has a drink it's alright to rape her. I'm sure Hawkeye will agree with that, but society is not quite so accommodating.
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Sun 15 Sep, 2013 05:44 am
@izzythepush,
Quote:
Your definition is that once a woman has a drink it's alright to rape her.


Sorry no where did I state such a silly thing!!!!!!!!

My statement once more is that a woman who regret her granting consent to having sex after taking that drink should not be able to cry rape the next day or the next week due to her regretting her actions under the theory of invalid consent.

IE no one in fact had been rape at all under the above set of facts no matter how must the lady regret her choice of sexual partners the next day or the next week.

firefly
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Sep, 2013 07:31 am
@BillRM,
Where in the sexual laws of your state does it mention "invalid consent"?

There is no such thing as "invalid consent." Either the individual is able to legally consent or they are not. And each state's laws covering sexual assault define "consent."

What you are saying is that, if a woman has been sexually assaulted while under the influence of alcohol, it is easy for the man to claim that she was willing, but regrets it after the fact--and he will count on the fact that no one will believe her claim of assault because she had been drinking.

Rape occurs when there is sexual intercourse, or penetration, without consent--whether the woman is intoxicated or not. I suggest you actually read the sexual assault laws of your state so you understand the meaning of "consent" as the law defines it.

You obviously have the idea that it is fine--both morally and legally--to "take advantage" of someone in an impaired state. Inherent in that attitude is a view of the woman as a piece of meat who is up for grabs, particularly if her ability to offer resistance is diminished. It's that sort of attitude that led to the gang rape in Steubenville and likely accounted for what occurred at Vanderbilt.

It is not up to you to define what rape is and isn't--rape is defined by the laws of your state. I suggest you familiarize yourself with them.

BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 15 Sep, 2013 07:52 am
I see you had posted a reply Firefly and can only assume you are still doing your best to sell the idea that women are children that are not responsible for their own actions being that action drinking and or having sex after drinking.

Kind of insulting to women on it face beside being very unfair to their sexual partners where they can declare rape after the fact at their whim by way of the old invalid consent argument.

Like that paralegal that wished to get the New York newcaster charge with raping her after she picked him up on the street have a meal with him with drinks and then took him to her office after hours and have sex with him on her boss desk.

All to explained to her live in boyfriend how she became pregancy when he could not father children,
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Sep, 2013 08:22 am
@BillRM,
If you are concerned about being accused of, or charged with, rape, then don't have sex with intoxicated women. Better yet, don't have sex with anyone you don't know well enough to trust. You have a deep distrust of women which has been apparent throughout this thread, along with a basic lack of regard for women.

If you violate the sexual assault laws of your state, you may be charged with rape. If you can't understand those laws, and the definitions of "consent" they contain, you should refrain from having sex at all.

As they say, ignorance of the law is no excuse...

If you don't know whether someone is knowingly, and freely, and willingly, and consciously, giving you something, or whether you are surreptiously taking, or stealing, it, then leave it alone--don't take it--or you might be accused of theft. It's just that simple.

Quote:
“Rape culture” is not an empty term or an imaginary phenomenon. According to a survey published by the Centers for Disease Control in 2011, one in five American women have been raped or experienced attempted rape. In May, the officer in charge of preventing sexual assault in the U.S. Air Force was arrested for groping a woman in a parking lot. Two days later, the Pentagon released a poll of a hundred and eight thousand active-duty service members showing that twenty-six thousand had been sexually assaulted. Worldwide, women between fifteen and forty-four are more likely to be injured or die from male violence than from traffic accidents, cancer, malaria, and the effects of war combined. This sustained brutality would be impossible without a culture that enables it: a value system in which women are currency, and sex is something that men get—or take—from them.
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2013/08/05/130805fa_fact_levy?currentPage=all









izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Sep, 2013 10:09 am
@firefly,
BillRM constantly points out the case of an inebriated woman crying rape because she regretted having sex the night before. The way he goes on you'd think it was an epidemic as opposed to a statistically insignificant occurrence.
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Sun 15 Sep, 2013 12:07 pm
@izzythepush,
Quote:
The way he goes on you'd think it was an epidemic as opposed to a statistically insignificant occurrence.


In the US a nation of 300 millions it does not take a large percent of women doing so to run the numbers into thousands of men every year facing rape charges due to regret after the fact and the theory of invalid consent.

For every famous person such as the New York newscast this happen to how many other men who stories are not record on the front pages find themselves in a similar situation?
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Sep, 2013 12:12 pm
@BillRM,
What happens significantly more often, is that a woman doesn't report a rape as she's worried she won't be believed, because she had a drink.

With people like you around it's no wonder so many rapes go unreported.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Sep, 2013 12:15 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

What happens significantly more often, is that a woman doesn't report a rape as she's worried she won't be believed, because she had a drink.

With people like you around it's no wonder so many rapes go unreported.

when the fact that she was drunk makes it rape that goes away, it becomes just like the 14 yo who claims rape, if there was sex (is dna) then there was rape, the words of the victim matter none because consent was impossible.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Sep, 2013 12:19 pm
@hawkeye10,
That's the attitude I was talking about. You're saying it's alright to rape a 14 year old girl if she's had a drink.
BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 15 Sep, 2013 12:36 pm
@izzythepush,
Quote:
With people like you around it's no wonder so many rapes go unreported.


Been studies that I had posted on this thread many times that indicate that anywhere from 20 percents to fifty percents of all non-stranger rapes reports are false charges.

Lot of reasons for women to disclaim having willing sex with someone such as the New York paralegal getting pregnancy by someone not her boyfriend and almost zero punishment for falsely doing so.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Sep, 2013 01:17 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

That's the attitude I was talking about. You're saying it's alright to rape a 14 year old girl if she's had a drink.

there was zero attitude, only statements of logic and fact.

you are an idiot.
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Sep, 2013 02:36 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
"Crying Rape" On Innocent Men Doesn't Happen As Often As You Might Think
Tracey Vitchers

How often do women falsely accuse men of rape? Often? Sometimes? Almost never? And, how often do women falsely accuse men of domestic violence? The actual numbers might surprise you and may help change the way our culture views sexual violence allegations.

In a recent report published by the United Kingdom's Crown Prosecution Service, it was found that a mere 35 out of 5,651 or .6% women falsely accused men of rape, and only 6 women out of 111,891 or .005% falsely accused a man of domestic violence during the 17-month-long study.

The study was conducted in response to a 2010 court appeal in which a woman pleaded guilty to falsely retracting true accusations of rape she had made against her husband and was sentence to 8 months in prison for "perverting the court of justice."

Now, why is the study significant? Well, for starters, the low number of false accusations helps to undermine the myth that women are vindictive shrews who will lie about an act of sexual violence in order to get revenge on a man who treats them poorly, didn't call after a one night stand, or breaks up with them. One of the easiest ways for rape apologists to turn the tables on a sexual violence survivor who files criminal charges against her assailant is to exaggerate the prevalence of false rape allegations or attack the survivor's credibility.

In a world where women are threatened and slut-shamed for speaking up about sexual assault and for seeking justice for the crimes committed against them it is important for our society to support survivors. The report's findings serve as a supportive, factual counterpoint to any rape apologist who uses false statistics to claim that survivors "lie" about or "exaggerate" what happened to them in order to get revenge.

The report is also important because it highlights the reality that false allegations are often complicated by outside factors, such as:

Mental health issues: 18% of all the rape and/or domestic violence allegations examined by the study were made by someone with a mental health issue as assessed by a health professional. All but one of the accusations made by someone with a mental illness proved to be false or grossly exaggerated.

Some person other than a possible victim makes a false accusation: in one instance, a father reported that his daughter had been raped by her older boyfriend and pressured her to substantiate his claim by providing false information to the police.

An accuser is pressured to recant their statement: despite having visible injuries, one woman said she lied about her original assault accusation, but later claimed she recanted her statement because of threats of future violence made by her partner.

These outside factors must considered when allegations of sexual violence are examined because they are realities that the judicial system must deal with, and because we cannot allow the blame and shame game to morph into an even bigger monster. We cannot permit mentally healthy survivors to be called mentally ill, crazy, or nuts, simply because they make an allegation of sexual assault. We also cannot discount an accusation of sexual violence by a bystander who may be able to provide critical information in a criminal investigation. And we need to ensure that survivors aren’t pressured by police, lawyers, assailants, family members, or friends to recant true allegations, as the failure to prosecute an offender may lead to future abuse.

While the study reveals that there were a small number of false allegations over a 17-month-long period, we as a society need to stop unabashedly questioning the validity of rape, domestic violence, and sexual assault allegations as doing so only serves to silence, ostracize, and shame survivors. Just as men do not want to be judged or stereotyped because of the actions of one rapist, survivors do not want their very true and painful experiences to be invalidated by a handful of false sexual violence allegations.
http://www.policymic.com/articles/41583/crying-rape-on-innocent-men-doesn-t-happen-as-often-as-you-might-think


Thank goodness they had photos to establish what went on in Steubenville, which enabled them to get convictions, otherwise you'd be claiming that young woman had consented but changed her mind later.

Thank goodness they also have additional evidence to support the allegations in the Vanderbilt case, otherwise you'd be claiming the same thing.

Rather than promoting your rape denials, and apologies for rapists, try dealing with the reality of date and acquaintance rape. Try dealing with the reality of stranger rape. Try dealing with the reality of rape.

Lets try talking about why people rape...
mysteryman
 
  2  
Reply Sun 15 Sep, 2013 02:38 pm
@firefly,
Firefly,
You never did answer my question.
If a man got drunk and had sex with a woman, would you support and defend him if he filed rape charges against the woman, on the grounds that he was to drunk to give consent?
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Sep, 2013 02:43 pm
@firefly,
any other claim that a person might make would be questioned because we know that humans lie, but the rape feminists demand that we dont question claims of rape, they call this abuse of women.

That is looney tunes nuts!
BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 15 Sep, 2013 02:46 pm
@mysteryman,
Quote:
Firefly,
You never did answer my question.
If a man got drunk and had sex with a woman, would you support and defend him if he filed rape charges against the woman, on the grounds that he was to drunk to give consent?


We all know the answer to that as in hell no.

Women in Firefly world view are children like victims of sexual predator males who are forcing alcohol down their unwilling throats.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Sep, 2013 02:56 pm
@hawkeye10,
we question rape claims because equal rights and justice demand that we do. every single charge against a fellow citizen MUST be thoroughly examined.

when the rape feminists go on these rants demanding injustice be done to men they show just how far off the rails they have gone.
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Sep, 2013 02:57 pm
@mysteryman,
Sexual assault laws define the act of rape or sexual assault as it would pertain to either gender . Each state's sexual assault laws also define the meaning of "consent". If a man is sexually assaulted, according to how those laws define the act of rape, or sexual assault, the rapist should be prosecuted.

Men are more often raped by other men than they are by women, and sexual assault laws are intended to protect both genders from unwanted sexual contacts.

I support the existing rape/sexual assault laws, I'm not getting into an essentially pointless discussion of hypothetical situations--there are enough actual rape cases to consider.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Sep, 2013 03:00 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
we question rape claims because equal rights and justice demand that we do. every single charge against a fellow citizen MUST be thoroughly examined.

I don't disagree with that. That's why all allegations of sexual assault should be taken seriously, and adequately, and thoroughly, investigated by law enforcement.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Sep, 2013 03:08 pm
@firefly,
firefly wrote:

Quote:
we question rape claims because equal rights and justice demand that we do. every single charge against a fellow citizen MUST be thoroughly examined.

I don't disagree with that. That's why all allegations of sexual assault should be taken seriously, and adequately, and thoroughly, investigated by law enforcement.

then you should join me in condemning the assertion that rape claims are not to be questioned. you would if you cared about justice also demand that proof againt the accused be presented, claims by the alleged victim alone can not be enough since humans lie.
 

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