Hey, Can A Woman "Ask To Get Raped"?

@Intrepid,

Quote:

This debate was won a few dozen pages back. You, I am happy to say, did not win

Point one) you are lying, the debate is unresolved at a2k

point two) this debate is taking place in the society as a whole, and is unresolved.

2 Replies

@hawkeye10,

You, again, equate sympathy and empathy. True, you have never shown sympathy for the victim. You haven't displayed any empathy either. You have, however displayed both for the perp.

It is not I that am making a fool of myself. You can play around with words all you want. The truth is evident.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
This debate was won a few dozen pages back. You, I am happy to say, did not win
Point one) you are lying, the debate is unresolved at a2k

point two) this debate is taking place in the society as a whole, and is unresolved.

Point one - How do you know I am lying? You only assume this because you refuse to accept the fact that you have not presented anything to support your foolish claims while others have provided much to dispute what you claim.

Point two - Then take your debate into society and see if you fare any better than you have here.

When people say they no longer want to deal with you, you take it, in your arrogance, that they can no longer keep up with you in debate and you have won. No. They simply don't want to deal with you because you continue the same old whine.

1 Reply

@Intrepid,

Quote:

You can play around with words all you want. The truth is evident.

and you know that I always encourage people to make up their own minds. It is attempting to manipulate debate and people that I have a problem with. Trying the declare victory and move on powerplay in a debate that is clearly unresolved being an example of such. You can only speak for yourself, when you try to decide for other people you have gone off the rails. Had you been the upstanding citizen you think you are you would have said instead that your mind is now clearly made up, however you and know full well that your mind was made up about both me and this subject two years ago, so that would not have been news.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

That is because you spouted the same **** two years ago. Two years of shouting from the rooftops and you are at square one.

I did not declare victory any more than you declared defeat.

0 Replies

@Intrepid,

Quote:

When people say they no longer want to deal with you, you take it, in your arrogance, that they can no longer keep up with you in debate and you have won. No. They simply don't want to deal with you because you continue the same old whine.

I really have no clue how to simplify this idea enough that you can understand it, so I will simply repeat....you only have the authority to speak for YOURSELF.

2 Replies

@hawkeye10,

How simplified you do you need it. Many peole have already told you that they don't want to deal with you. They did speak for themselves. You never listen to what they say so you don't think they said it.

It is you who claims to speak for the "collective".

Actually, I think you just make so many trivial posts so that pertinent stuff that people post is obscured by your pages of rhetoric.

0 Replies

@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
When people say they no longer want to deal with you, you take it, in your arrogance, that they can no longer keep up with you in debate and you have won. No. They simply don't want to deal with you because you continue the same old whine.

I really have no clue how to simplify this idea enough that you can understand it, so I will simply repeat....you only have the authority to speak for YOURSELF.

Says the demented peice of **** who throws the word "we" around as if the tiny fraction of humanity that agrees with his demented nonsense is a majority. Shorteyes is a sadistic troll, and a cowardly one at that. He hides online behind a fake name and a phony avatar because he knows very well his demented misogynistic bullshit would earn him an ass-kicking in any setting that included real men in the real world.

1 Reply

@joefromchicago,

Quote:

Can I have you arrested for trespassing? Or would you say that, once my invitation was extended, it can never be rescinded?

Somehow I think that 7 seconds is a little short of the time frame to leave however or if your comment that I should leaved is express is so mild a manner that a reasonable person would not assume that permission had been in fact revoke.

A comment in the middle of sexual intercourse that she needs to leave soon is not a clear revoking of permission for example.

1 Reply

@joefromchicago,

Quote:

That's true of any situation where there are only two witnesses: the accused and the purported victim. Yet somehow we've managed to handle such cases without too much difficulty for hundreds of years.

Not however without placing many innocent people in prison. See the men released after DNA test had proven that they was innocent for example.

0 Replies

@hawkeye10,

Hawkeye, what do you think your're debating?

Can you coherently state what the two sides of the issue would be? A debate has two sides, remember. What is the position of the other side, as you understand it, based only on the posts the "other side" has made in this thread?

Do you even know what the topic is?

Are you quite sure you're really not just talking to yourself?

Do you really believe that people are listening to you?

You're so starved for attention, you'd rather have people calling you names than ignoring you.

That's your idea of a "debate"?

You tell yourself that you've won this alleged "debate"....

Are you sure it's not a delusion?

0 Replies

@firefly,

Quote:

Why would a woman who has had an enjoyable time with a man, and pleasurable consensual sex, want to suddenly accuse him of rape a day later? Does that make any sense? Why do you bring up such examples?

Money come to mind as in civil suits.

Also as a means of reducing the heat on her from her family as it not my fault that I go pregnant so and so rape me.

Dear husband I did not cheat on you the man rape me………..

Quote:

And no one makes a rape accusation 5 weeks later. There would be no evidence of a sexual encounter, let alone a rape.

Let see try looking up so call cases of recover memories of early childhood abused where fathers and brothers and uncles end up being charge with raping of a child two or three decades after the fact.

I am not sure but I am under the impression that Gore accused did not contract the police right away and that it is not uncommon for women to report cases of rape weeks or months afterward.

Quote:

Most women do make it clear what they want to do sexually and where they draw the line. If it is at all unclear to the man, he should ask her. If he doesn't get an answer that clearly indicates consent to a specific sex act, he should stop. That seems pretty simple to understand.

Most women are fairly sane in their sexual behavior and most men are not rapist either.

Some men are rapist however and some women are emotional unstable enough to charge an innocent man with rape.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

Quote:

Some men are rapist however and some women are emotional unstable enough to charge an innocent man with rape.

If a man gets in bed with a woman he does not know, who might be emotionally unstable, don't you think he might be "asking for" a false rape allegation?

2 Replies

@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

I did a bad quote job on Bills post.

Indeed.

hawkeye10 wrote:

I think that any party can withdraw consent at any time for current time as well as future time.

I agree.

hawkeye10 wrote:

There does need to be a clear withdrawal, and a reasonable time for the other party to comply with the removal of consent. As per Bills example many pages back I dont think we can for example allow a woman to withdraw consent just before the man comes, or as he is climaxing, and expect him to pull out in 2 seconds, and if he does not hang him for rape.

Are those real examples, or merely hypothetical situations?

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
Yet somehow we've managed to handle such cases without too much difficulty for hundreds of years.
they managed to decide who to punish, whether justice prevailed or not is a whole nother kettle of fish.

Quite so, but then that's true for any case, not just rape cases.

0 Replies

@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

Quote:
Can I have you arrested for trespassing? Or would you say that, once my invitation was extended, it can never be rescinded?

Somehow I think that 7 seconds is a little short of the time frame to leave however or if your comment that I should leaved is express is so mild a manner that a reasonable person would not assume that permission had been in fact revoke.

Well, that all depends on the circumstances. I suppose if you were hitting me over the head with a blunt instrument, I would expect you to take steps to comply with my request immediately, and a delay of even seven seconds would be unreasonable.

BillRM wrote:

A comment in the middle of sexual intercourse that she needs to leave soon is not a clear revoking of permission for example

Again, that depends on the circumstances. I am not familiar with the facts of the case that you rely upon, but then my guess is that you aren't either.

1 Reply

@firefly,

Quote:

If a man gets in bed with a woman he does not know, who might be emotionally unstable, don't you think he might be "asking for" a false rape allegation?

Only to the same extent that a woman who gets in bed with a man she doesn't know, who happens to be emotionally unstable (this unknown man)- can be considered to be 'asking' to be raped.

I think we need to be fair. I think 'risking' is a better word, as in, 'If a man gets in bed with a woman he doesn't know, who might be emotionally unstable, he's risking a false rape allegation'.
Same is true for women - if a woman gets in bed with a man she doesn't know who may be emotionally unstable - she's 'risking' getting raped.

I don't think it's ever too late to be reminded of these facts. I was just reminded in May. I was at a pub with friends. A guy came in talking about surfing in Hawaii. He wanted to go outside for a cigarette - he asked me to go with him to continue the conversation. I went , even though I don't smoke. I thought we were going to continue talking. He wanted to kiss me. I said, 'No.' He asked me 'Why not?' I said, 'I don't even know you - I don't kiss people I don't know.' He grabbed me by the wrist and pulled me to him. His grip was like iron. I was seriously surprised at his strength and reminded of the fact that if he wanted to overpower me - he probably most certainly could. Luckily I was two feet from the door of the pub and I just started telling him to let me go loudly enough that he became afraid that people would hear me, and he let me go. But what if I had gone for a walk around the block with him - or goodness gracious - walked into his house with him to see the photos of him surfing in Hawaii?
Would I have been 'asking' to be raped?
No - but if I don't take care and remember this lesson - I will have to take a little responsibility for my own risk-taking behavior.
And if a man gets into bed with a woman who is unstable he needs to remember that she can be just as dangerous to him as he can be to her (physically) and he should take responsibility for his decision and risk-taking behavior too.

At least that's what I think and that's what I teach my kids.

I think this thread has been very informative, but the question I've asked three times has yet to be addressed.
Hawkeye has stated that he thinks we should treat the rapist in society. I've asked and am still asking how he proposes to do this. I'm also curious as to how society can be held responsible for not recognizing the extent of a person's problem with or propensity for sexual violence - before they rape. How are we supposed to recognize a future rapist - as a child - and apply preventive measures? Not that I don't think that would be wonderful to be able to do - but how?

And what is our society doing to produce rapists? If society has to take responsibility for producing them, I'd like to know what specifically we are doing that we should stop doing, so that no more rapists are produced or 'created'.

1 Reply

@OCCOM BILL,

And then along comes Bill, short dumpy Bill, major hypocritical Bill.

Quote:

... would earn him an ass-kicking in any setting that included real men in the real world.

Is that "real men" do, Bill, distribute ass kickings to those that they disagree with? Sounds rather hypocritical to me, you grand ole defender of the 'merican way.

Real men don't sit back with their mouths shut while government after government, their governments carpet bombs, napalms, shoots up with helicopter gunships, innocent men, women and children or provides material support to aid those who rape, torture and murder innocent men, women and children on their behalf.

0 Replies

How would the lives of rape victims be made better by more lax rape laws? I know I haven't read all 40 some pages of this thread, but perhaps someone could explain how this makes any sense. It doesn't.

If I'm to believe hawkeye, rape is the easiest thing in the world to throw someone in jail for. Quite contrary, only a minority of rapes make it to court at all.

Consensual sex is not simply a person not saying "no," but instead a person's ability to say "yes." I believe many rapes occur because the aggressor creates a situation where the victim isn't given the option to give consent, and is afraid to say stop. The rapist takes this situation, and then redirects it back at the victim such that they are manipulated into feeling like they should have stopped the sex.

A
R
T

2 Replies

@failures art,

Quote:

How would the lives of rape victims be made better by more lax rape laws? I know I haven't read all 40 some pages of this thread, but perhaps someone could explain how this makes any sense. It doesn't.

points of order:
1) I am not in favor of reducing rape-rape penalties
2) I have consistently argued from the point of view of what is best for all people, to include people who are neither victim nor rapist. The two things that I have said re the good of the victim is that they should have services available that they can use in privacy (from the authorities and their medical insurance) and that they should be encouraged to take control of their lives after this episode of lack of control. If the victim wants a pound of flesh from the rapist then they should be able to have it. If the victim wants to concentrate on healing and not take part in any punishment of their abuser then then should have that. I see not reporting a rape to be very understandable, and completely with-in the rights of the victim. I am aggressively opposed to encouraging their loved ones to violate the victims rights by snitching to the cops, and to the current practice of applying high pressure tactics to victims directly to do the collectives bidding.

1 Reply

Hey, Can A Woman "Ask To Get Raped"?

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know