Hey, Can A Woman "Ask To Get Raped"?

@BillRM,

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Off hand Hawkeye can you think of any other regular poster here that had been as close lip as she have been?

There are some game players, either the trivia people or the jokester such as Gus, but I cant think of anyone who has tried to debate serious subjects that has had the gall to be so disrespectful of us as Firefly is to be totally unforthcoming about who they are and where they come from.

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@hawkeye10,

I defined what I meant, and illustrated what I meant. If you're too dumb to understand what I'm saying, that's your problem. I don't care how the feminists use the term, I'm not speaking for feminists, I'm speaking for myself. And I'm being clear in what I am saying and meaning.

And, as I've told you before, I'm not going to dumb down so you can understand me.

And, concerning the crime of rape, the law defines "unwanted" in terms of lack of consent, and that is a part of every state law pertaining to rape. And it further contends that these meanings can be understood by any reasonable person. Guess that leaves you out, Hawkeye. Laughing

Enjoy talking to BillRM. And enjoy making up fantasies about my personal life. Laughing

It just shows neither of you can discuss ideas on a purely objective and intellectual level. You both need to stereotype and drag it down to the personal, because that's how you try to discredit what the person has said. This isn't a personal issue or topic for me, as it is for you. You've made it clear you are promoting an agenda because of a personal investment. I have no personal agenda, nor any personal investment in the topic. Did I ask you or BillRM to share your personal issues or information? Frankly, I'd rather not have heard such details. Laughing

Either you can discuss ideas objectively, and not in a highly personal manner, or you can't. And you and BillRM are saying you can't.

That's just tough fellas. Enjoy talking to yourselves.

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@firefly,

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And, concerning the crime of rape, the law defines "unwanted" in terms of lack of consent, and that is a part of every state law pertaining to rape. And it further contends that these meanings can be understood by any reasonable person.

If I walk up to a woman on a bar stool, put my hand on her thigh and start moving it towards the prize, and she spreads her legs....do I have consent to finger **** her?? We long ago got rid of the demand for her to say now or to push me away if she did not want it, and then the feminists started to argue that maybe she does not think she can say no and also thinks that if she tries to close her legs that I as the man might beat her up so we dont make her do that either.........how do I know that she is spreading her legs because she wants to? How do I know that I have consent according to the state demands?

It is all as clear as mud.

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@firefly,

Quote:

It just shows neither of you can discuss ideas on a purely objective and intellectual level.

Objective and intellectual people dont play all of the debating word games that you do, they want and open and honest debate because they want to see where the facts and reason end up. You on the other hand have shown repeatedly that you will employ any subterfuge that you think you can get away with to win the point.

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@hawkeye10,

Quote:

If I walk up to a woman on a bar stool, put my hand on her thigh and start moving it towards the prize, and she spreads her legs....do I have consent to finger **** her??

In a public place, in full view of other patrons? Rolling Eyes

Enjoy talking to BillRM. Laughing

If you still don't know what is legal or acceptable behavior at your age, and you're almost at the half-century mark, maybe he can help to explain it to you. Laughing

I'm not wasting my time with your nonsense--or his.

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@firefly,

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I'm not wasting my time with your nonsense--or his.

Your moral righteousness is straight out of the Calvinist pulpit this we know, as well we know your propensity to steer clear of points of argument that would get bumpy for you.

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@hawkeye10,

Quote:

Quote:
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It just shows neither of you can discuss ideas on a purely objective and intellectual level.
Objective and intellectual people dont play all of the debating word games that you do, they want and open and honest debate because they want to see where the facts and reason end up. You on the other hand have shown repeatedly that you will employ any subterfuge that you think you can get away with to win the point.

This woman just made a nasty comment about you being a house husband a few posts ago and then turn around and post about others not discussing ideas in a purely objective level!!!!!!

What a dishonest person she happen to be.

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@BillRM,

Quote:

This woman just made a nasty comment about you being a house husband a few posts ago and then turn around and post about others not discussing ideas in a purely objective level!!!!!!

She has also been on threads trying to be a kind understanding soul, which she shot to hell with her course put down of an unemployed 50 something man based upon my not working. There are a great many of us these days, many will never work again, and it kills them. I am not working by choice, and I dont need to ever work again, but that is besides the point. Firefly shows here yet again that she is quite the bitch, and that she loves debating gamesmanship.

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@hawkeye10,

I got lay off at age 58 myself after 33 years of employment with one firm and thankfully because of how I had always live far below my income I am not hurting either.

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@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

I got lay off at age 58 myself after 33 years of employment with one firm and thankfully because of how I had always live far below my income I am not hurting either.

My wife has always been the primary bread winner, something else you will recall Firefly has given me **** about....these feminist bitches claim to be want to let people make their own decisions based upon equality, but we see through their actions that what they really are itching for is their next excuse for beating up on men....and men who are progressive enough to let their wives have the main career and who are the primary caretaker of the children are, once they actually do it and when and excuse is needed for beating, to be mocked and harassed as weak.

Firefly's actions on A2K should give pause to any man who is considering taking seriously the claims of the feminists for how they want men to behave.

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@hawkeye10,

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She has also been on threads trying to be a kind understanding soul, which she shot to hell with her course put down of an unemployed 50 something man based upon my not working

Awww...now you are playing the injured victim card. Poor Hawkeye. Laughing

My comment about your employment status was made in the context of you asserting your right to make unwanted sexual advances toward others in the workplace.

And my comment about your age was made in the context of your professed ignorance regarding sexually appropriate public conduct, or legal sexual behaviors, at your quite advanced age.

More distortions, more twisting of what I said. Neither you nor BillRM can play it straight. You feel the immediate need to try to discredit me, by distorting my remarks, simply because you don't like what I am saying, about how your own statements reflect very unflatteringly on you.

You two are a comedy routine. Laughing

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@firefly,

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You feel the immediate need to try to discredit me, by distorting my remarks

,

No need at all to discredit you as you do a wonderful job of doing that to yourself.

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@firefly,

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My comment about your employment status was made in the context of you asserting your right to make unwanted sexual advances toward others in the workplace.

Which definition of the word "unwanted" are you using...your personal definition or the standard definition? It makes a big difference on deciding whether you have made a factually correct statement here.

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And my comment about your age was made in the context of your professed ignorance regarding sexually appropriate public conduct, or legal sexual behaviors, at your quite advanced age

I am from the BDSM/swinger community, we are not as uptight as your crowd is judging by your comments. Where I come from it is perfectly OK to put your hands on someone to see how they react. THe spreading of legs is an invitation jsyk.

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Quote:

15-year-old rape suspect held on $5 million bond
By Dan Morse
September 27, 2011

A 15-year-old accused of raping a woman on an Olney playground told the victim that she would “end up on the bottom of the Potomac River” if she didn’t comply, according to arrest records, as new details emerged Tuesday about the attack last month.

Alvick Omenga, a high school freshman, appeared at a Montgomery County District Court hearing via video feed from the county jail. His dark-green prison jumpsuit engulfed his shoulders, and he looked with wide eyes into the camera. Judge J. Michael Conroy told him that if convicted he faced possible life in prison and ordered him held on $5 million bond.

Montgomery police arrested Omenga on Monday and charged him as an adult with first-degree rape and attempted robbery. His family members could not be reached for comment. Prosecutors said he had run away from home more than two months before the attack. School officials said he had enrolled this year as a freshman at Sherwood High School in Sandy Spring but was not an active student.

His writings on Facebook appear to be those of a typical teenager. A student with an e-mail address tied to Omenga’s name ran for class president under the name “Alvick the Champ,” according to a Facebook page devoted to the campaign.

Police allege that the teenager raped a 22-year-old woman Aug. 5 in Olney, about 10 miles north of the Capital Beltway.

At 12:40 a.m., the woman parked her car in the 18000 block of Wagonwheel Court, police said. After she got out, Omenga “blitzed” her from behind, according to arrest papers filed in court and signed by Detective Stephen Matthews.

“Don’t make a noise and you won’t get hurt,” he said, according to Matthews. “Shut up and stop talking . . . give me cash.”

The woman said she could get money from her house.

“You will give it to me first,” the suspect responded, according to Matthews.

Police allege that the suspect then grabbed the woman by the neck and forced her to a nearby playground.

As he raped her, he told her to stop crying, according to charging papers. Then he ran away, and the victim called police.

Detectives later spoke to an individual with a startling tale: Earlier in the summer — about about a week before the rape — Omenga had approached the individual, Montgomery prosecutor Peter Feeney said in court Tuesday.

“Hey, do you want to rape those two girls? It’s okay, people rape girls all the time and never get caught,” Omenga said, according to Feeney.

The person rejected the offer, but detectives got a sample of Omenga’s DNA on Sept. 9. Two weeks later, test results matched it to the Aug. 5 attack, authorities said.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/2011/09/27/gIQArW2G3K_story.html

"It’s okay, people rape girls all the time and never get caught"

That's all too true, and that's what has to change.

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@firefly,

You might think that a life could not be over because of one wrong move at 15 years old, but in America you would be wrong.

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@hawkeye10,

Quote:

You might think that a life could not be over because of one wrong move at 15 years old, but in America you would be wrong.

Hell howabout the case of the three kids playing doctor in England Hawkeye?

Two ten years old boys and one eight years old girl with the two ten years olds boys ending up in adult repeat adult court charge with rape of all things.

Once the little girl was question on the stand it turn out that no such thing had occur with the little girl having lied to the adults in order not to get into trouble with mom, however to the amazement of all the judges still found them guilty of attempted rape.

Firefly ideal world charging young children with rape in adult court for playing doctor at least charging the boys with rape.

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@firefly,

"

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It’s okay, people rape girls all the time and never get caught"

That's all too true, and that's what has to change.

Yes indeed and the false chargings of men by women and girls are far too common and need to be change also. At least unlike in the US the women tend to get some punishment for doing so in the UK.

Oh her name was not released but hell her name should be known to all so in the future men would be placed of notice of the danger of having sexual relationships with her.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-11941868

Girl, 16, jailed at Merthyr after lying about rape A 16-year-old girl has been jailed for falsely making a rape claim so her boyfriend would not discover she had cheated on him.The girl, who had consensual sex with a 20-year-old man after a night out, told police that she had been abducted and attacked by three men, Merthyr Crown Court heard.

It led to all three being arrested.

The girl, who admitted perverting the course of justice, received a six-month custodial sentence.

The judge ordered the girl should not be named even though three men she accused were identified in court.

Prosecutor David Pugh said the girl had said she had been pushed up a metal ladder into an attic bedroom and attacked.

But, he said, the truth was uncovered when detectives viewed CCTV footage of her picking up the men in Merthyr Tydfil town centre and kissing one of them.

Mr Pugh said they returned to the man's parents' house and had consensual sex before the girl left and flagged down a police car, claiming she had been raped.

The girl was arrested and admitted making up the claims in June.

The man spent two months on bail before police cleared him.

Mr Pugh said: "The reason she said she gave the false account was she was scared her boyfriend would find out she cheated on him and it would lead to violence."

Alex Greenwood, defending, said the girl was "truly sorry"

"This is as serious an example of attempting to pervert the course of justice as one can imagine," he said.

"The three men were subjected to a terrifying experience in the knowledge they were entirely innocent."

'Absolutely vile crime'He said that once she made the rape allegation, "a juggernaut was set in train" and the girl was too scared to admit she was lying.

Judge Mr Recorder Jeremy Jenkins QC sent the teenager to a young offender institution for six months.

He told the girl: "When a woman makes an allegation of rape, it has to be treated with the utmost seriousness.

"Rape is an absolutely vile crime and it's the duty of the police to investigate it thoroughly and carefully.

"False allegations of rape can have dreadful consequences to the men concerned.

"For innocent men to be confronted with an allegation like that, held in custody for 36 hours and subjected to intrusive medical examinations is a terrible experience.

"The police spent many hours and there was a substantial financial cost in investigating your wholly false allegations."

He added: "Every time somebody makes a false allegation of rape, the public has less confidence in the truth of other complaints of sexual abuse made by genuine victims."

Despite an application from the prosecution, the judge ordered the girl should not be identified publicly.

He said her age and "the long-term need for rehabilitation" meant she should be given anonymity.

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In order to have accurate crime statistics on a national level, it is essential that crime definitions on a national level correspond to those used on a state level. In that regard, the federal definition of rape, last written 80 years ago, needs to be updated. Among other things, the current federal definition of rape does not include female on male or male on male or female on female cases of rape, or cases of oral or anal penetration, or cases of date rape where the victim was drugged or drunk.

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EDITORIAL: Redefining rape
The FBI will discuss updating the term next month
Thursday, Sep 29, 2011

A subcommittee of the FBI is meeting in Baltimore next month, and one of the topics it will take up is whether, and how, to update the agency’s definition of sexual assault — specifically, what constitutes rape. The change is long overdue, more than 80 years overdue, in fact. That’s when the FBI’s archaic definition of rape was written, terming it “the carnal knowledge of a female, forcibly and against her will.”

Many law enforcement agencies and women’s rights groups have lobbied for a change, saying the limited definition causes rape to be underreported in this country, which misleads the public and results in fewer resources being devoted to catching rapists and helping victims. Greg Scarbro, the FBI’s unit chief for the Uniform Crime Report, told The New York Times this week that agency officials agree the definition needs to be expanded, but U.S. law enforcement agencies will have to support any change if it’s to be effective.

The problem with the current definition is that is doesn’t take into account cases involving oral or anal penetration or penetration with a foreign object; “date rape” cases in which the victim is attacked after being drugged or drunk; and rapes involving female-on-male, male-on-male and female-on-female.

It does, however, include female rapes by family members; sexual assaults on males are counted as either aggravated assaults or as less-serious sexual offenses.

The Chicago Police Department recorded 1,400 sexual assaults in 2010 but the Times says none of those was added to the FBI’s numbers because federal officials wouldn’t accept the Chicago police’s broader definition of rape.

The FBI’s Uniform Crime Report for 2010 says there were 84,767 “forcible” rapes last year, a decline of 5 percent over 2009 and down nearly 7 percent from 2001. That works out to just about 54 forcible rapes for every 100,000 females in the United States; by contrast, the number of “aggravated assaults” was reported to be nearly 10 times the number of forcible rapes.

The FBI says its forcible rape numbers include attempted rape and “assaults to commit rape by force or threat of force.” But even considering that, it strains credulity to believe that forcible rapes are only one-tenth the number of aggravated assaults.

The agency’s overly narrow definition of rape is only part of the problem, however. It’s generally agreed that rape is also one of the most underreported crimes by victims, in part because some believe it is a personal or private matter or because the victims fear reprisals by the rapists. There’s also the fear that the accused may not be arrested — the FBI consistently puts the number of “unfounded” rape accusations at about 8 percent — or if there is an arrest, that the prosecution will not be successful. Some surveys have estimated that at least three-quarters of all rapes cases go unreported.

Changing the FBI’s definition of rape won’t, by itself, move the public discussion about the crime out of the 1930s and into the 21st century. But it’s a start.
http://www.registerguard.com/web/opinion/26951604-47/rape-fbi-definition-rapes-assaults.html.csp

I have no doubt but that Hawkeye and BillRM would prefer to see the archaic federal definition of rape remain as it has been since the 1930's. Among other things, that would leave male on male sexual assaults categorized as a less serious crime than rape on the national level. But those two alleged men's rights advocates are no more concerned about sexual assaults against men than they are about sexual assaults against females--they trivialize most sexual assaults, deny the prevalence of such assaults, and attack the allocation of funds for victim services and law enforcement efforts to deal with sexual assaults, and they have done that throughout this thread.

Fortunately, most people, unlike Hawkeye and BillRM, want national crime statistics to accurately mirror the crimes, and the seriousness of those crimes, which occur on the state level, so that funding and law enforcement efforts can be more effectively diverted and utilized. Greater standardization of crime definitions will help to insure that goal.

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@Nogard2u,

Hi, Nogard2u, I'm glad you joined this thread, and I appeciate the fact you were able to share your experience of sexual assault with us. I am happy you were able to get therapy to help you deal with the lasting effects of such trauma.

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A woman, no matter what she's wearing, what she was drinking, or what she said up until she said 'no,' should be heeded--because after that it is without consent.

The man's penis does not run ahead of him, with him holding on saying, "no I don't want to do that." Just saying...

I could not agree with you more.

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@firefly,

Yes it is hard to drum up the idea that the crime of rape is out of control when the reported cases of rapes is at a 33 years low.

I can see how you would wish to change this to white wash that fact and get the numbers up at least somewhat. I nice big one time bump in the numbers would be wonderful for you.

Reports case are at a 33 year low headlines then can be change to reported that rapes had increase say to 15 percents from last year.

Of could you would have to hope that people do not know this increase is due only to changing the standards and by doing so losing the ability to track history statistic on the subject and compare them over the decades.

We need more and more resources in this area would be your dishonest cry as rapes are sharply up.

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Hey, Can A Woman "Ask To Get Raped"?

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