25
   

Hey, Can A Woman "Ask To Get Raped"?

 
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Aug, 2011 10:07 am
@BillRM,
Another strawman? I never said that is my theory, Bill. That is what has been reported. I was only relaying the facts to you.
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Fri 19 Aug, 2011 10:21 am
@Arella Mae,
You surely was implying that he might be the killer in linking his strong disagreement with releasing these men and the fact that his DNA was at the crime scene in some manner.

The only parent that is not for releasing these men and his DNA was at the crime scene............................

You been hanging around Firefly too long and are becoming as dishonest as her.
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Fri 19 Aug, 2011 10:35 am
@BillRM,
Why are you trying to discuss a case that you admit you know next to nothing about?

I've followed this case for many years. What's gone on with the West Memphis 3 has been an extremely complicated saga that's actually gone far beyond questions of guilt or innocence for those murders. From the outset, it has been questionable whether these three ever received fair and unbiased trials or adequate legal representation, and similar disturbing issues have been evident throughout the various appeal procedures that have gone on since their convictions. Whether guilty or innocent, a strong sense of miscarriage of justice has always permeated this case and that alone should justify serious questions in favor of their release.

You have a repeated tendency to become involved in discussions on topics you have little or no knowledge about, but in which you feel free to offer uninformed opinions, generally by constructing straw-men that allow you to present a distorted view of either the topic or the views of other posters.

That tendency has been abundantly evident in this particular thread where you have offered all sorts of opinions about the topic of rape without even knowing what the specific rape laws of your state are, or precisely how they define the crime of rape. Rape, as a crime, is precisely what the laws of a state define rape to be--as defined in the exact wording of those rape laws. It is not what you imagine it to be, or what you think it might be--rape is a crime with a very specific definition under state law.

And, since your opinions emanate from a starting point of ignorance, you shouldn't be at all surprised that better informed and thoughtful posters, like Arella Mae, don't want to waste their time trying to discuss issues with you.

Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Aug, 2011 10:44 am
@BillRM,
I wasn't implying any such thing. I have no idea who killed those three boys. I definitely do not believe it was the WM3 nor do I believe it was the father whose DNA was found at the crime scene. He was the kids father so finding DNA on the kid would be a great probability. You didn't even ask what kind of DNA was found. It was not semen. DNA from the father's hands was found on the boy's shoelaces and I'd hardly think that was any reason to accuse the man of murder, would you?

I was not being dishonest and I really resent you lying like that. In the beginning all of the parents and pretty much the entire town just KNEW these three boys were guilty. Over the years, due to new evidence, etc., all of the parents but one, the one that had DNA at the crime scene, still maintains the WM3 are guilty. It is not an accusation. It is a statement of fact.

firefly is not dishonest and neither am I. Because you engage in throwing out strawman arguments, which are pretty much lies, I would think you'd be more careful about who you accuse of being dishonest.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Aug, 2011 10:50 am
@firefly,
You would think he'd be jumping up and down for joy! Seriously, this is one case where he could actually bask in us agreeing that a monumental miscarriage of justice has been commited!Rolling Eyes (at him, not you.)
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Aug, 2011 11:49 am
@Arella Mae,
Quote:

firefly is not dishonest and neither am I. Because you engage in throwing out strawman arguments, which are pretty much lies, I would think you'd be more careful about who you accuse of being dishonest.

Because he is so obviously deceitful in the way he distorts the opinions and comments of other posters, he assumes that everyone lies the way he does.

Of course, neither of us is lying--we have no reason to lie, all we are doing is discussing a topic and expressing our opinions. But, since BillRM isn't really ever discussing anything, he's always constantly setting up an argument, an often bogus straw-man argument, his goal is to "win" his argument, and, if that involves his lying and distorting things, that's what he will resort to. He's playing a rather childish game with himself, which is why he winds up talking to himself most of the time, unless Hawkeye shows up, and even Hawkeye tends to ignore most of what he says--Hawkeye uses what BillRM says simply to promote his own agenda. Quite a dynamic duo. Laughing

But, since BillRM thinks we lie, he shouldn't be too upset if we ignore him. Smile

0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Aug, 2011 11:52 am
@Arella Mae,
I would think he'd be happy about the West Memphis 3 also, but he is apparently ignorant of the case.

I posted a new thread on the WM3 being released.
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Aug, 2011 11:57 am
@firefly,
firefly wrote:

I would think he'd be happy about the West Memphis 3 also, but he is apparently ignorant of the case.

I posted a new thread on the WM3 being released.


I just visited it that thread and posted an article that contains the details of the deal. My husband is just as thrilled as I am. We both have been following this case. They didn't seem bitter at during their press conference today and I hope bitterness never sets in for them. Damien's wife has been there the whole way and he is blessed to have her. I imagine their lives will be difficult for a bit but somethings tells me they are all going to be fine.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Fri 19 Aug, 2011 03:57 pm
@firefly,
Well Firefly if she and you do not wish this matter to be up for discussion then it should not had been posted.

Most people off hands are not going to had been following this for years but if you had then you should have enough materials to convince all the rest of us that they are innocents and we are not seeing a miscarried of justice.

Now in getting up to speed I found out that there was a confession by one of these gentlemen and there was some evidence of bragging about this crime to others and some physical evidence as in the form of fibers linking them to the murder boy scouts.

The local community is very very divided over this crime and they are the ones who are likely to know every detail of this crime.

One thing we do know that those three young boys did not committed suicide so someone murder them and a jury was convinced that the gentlemen being free did in fact murder those kids.

Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Aug, 2011 06:33 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Well Firefly if she and you do not wish this matter to be up for discussion then it should not had been posted.

Most people off hands are not going to had been following this for years but if you had then you should have enough materials to convince all the rest of us that they are innocents and we are not seeing a miscarried of justice.

Now in getting up to speed I found out that there was a confession by one of these gentlemen and there was some evidence of bragging about this crime to others and some physical evidence as in the form of fibers linking them to the murder boy scouts.

The local community is very very divided over this crime and they are the ones who are likely to know every detail of this crime.

One thing we do know that those three young boys did not committed suicide so someone murder them and a jury was convinced that the gentlemen being free did in fact murder those kids.




The young man that "confessed" has an extremely low IQ and is mentally handicapped. Seriously, Bill, you need to go read about this. There have been two books done on it, there are court transcripts, there are interviews, etc. Most of the "facts" in the confession DID NOT line up with the crime but it did not matter to the police.

There are a couple of documentaries on youtube about this. Search Paradise Lost. Of course, the documentaries don't hold all of the facts but it will at least give you a good foundation to start with. You will see the parents going from staunch belief these young men were guilty to actually trying to help prove they were not guilty and why they now believe they were not guilty.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Aug, 2011 07:22 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
Most people off hands are not going to had been following this for years but if you had then you should have enough materials to convince all the rest of us that they are innocents and we are not seeing a miscarried of justice.

I've said I'm not completely convinced of their innocence, although I am certainly leaning in that direction, but I am convinced that their convictions, and the appeals process, and some of their legal representation, reflected a miscarriage of justice in this case because too much of what went on was tainted and biased against them.

I'm not interested in convincing you of anything. This has been a very complex case--there have been 18 years of appeals after the trials, the trials were only the beginning. If you want to understand all the twists and turns, you have to do your own reading and investigation.

The main issue is whether these three ever received "justice" from the legal system. The matter of who killed the three little boys has never been sufficiently answered, and probably never will be answered.

You've got to do a lot more reading, and a lot more thinking, about this case before I have any interest in discussing it with you. I'm not going to hang around and answer questions for you that you can investigate and answer for yourself.

Try watching the documentary, "Paradise Lost - The Robin Hood Hills Murders"--maybe you can get it from Netflix

This thread is not the place to continue discussing this case--that's why I started another thread for that purpose.
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Aug, 2011 07:33 pm
@firefly,
Wow, seems it has been taken off youtube.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Aug, 2011 07:55 pm
@firefly,
Somehow Firefly the injustice of three eight years olds not getting to grow up kind of overwhelmed in my eyes any injustice done to those gentlemen by the legal system if they are guilty of the murders.

0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Aug, 2011 12:21 am
@Arella Mae,
Quote:
Lawsuit alleges Missouri school expelled girl for making rape claim

The actions of that school district are really shocking. I did some more reading on that case and, even though they aren't mandated to report child on child sexual abuse, they should have done it anyway so that the allegations could have been evaluated by the proper forensic experts at the child advocacy center (where such matters are handled in that area). It really wasn't the province of the school district to handle this on their own or to decide that the girl's initial claims of sexual abuse were not credible--and then they reported her to authorities for making a false claim, which really is incredible. And the fact that the girl continued to be assaulted and raped the following year, in the school, and that was confirmed by the presence of the boy's DNA, really is appalling. Had her complaints been properly addressed initially, none of that would have gone on.

This was a 7th grade girl in special education, and the school told her she wasn't doing enough to protect herself. Rolling Eyes Aren't they supposed to be the ones protecting children while they are in school?

The school officials really sound irresponsible, and some people are now calling for their resignations. This situation should have been referred to the child advocacy center from the onset--they were the ones who should have done any investigation of the girl's allegations. And expelling the girl, and making her write a letter of apology to the boy, were terrible ways of handling the situation.

I'm glad the lawsuit was filed. That's one way of getting the story out in the open as far as the school's conduct is concerned.

BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Aug, 2011 01:04 am
@firefly,
Quote:
the allegations could have been evaluated by the proper forensic experts at the child advocacy center (where such matters are handled in that area).


Well the local school district I happen to live in have it own school police department train to look into such matters and who know the students far better then the county police department.

That was one of my questions did the people who investigated the charges for the school have the training to do so or not.

Quote:
And the fact that the girl continued to be assaulted and raped the following year, in the school, and that was confirmed by the presence of the boy's DNA, really is appalli


Was it the school district opinion that no sexual intercourse was taking place or that the girl was playing games over cases of intercourses she was freely taking part in?

Hard to prosecute one party for under the age of consent sex when both are under that age.
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Aug, 2011 01:59 am
@BillRM,
I think the point is the school really shouldn't have evaluated or handled this case by themselves at all--they should have turned it over to the proper people to investigate--they should have called a child abuse hotline.
Quote:
Erring on side of caution advised for mandatory reporters
Serious allegations should be hotlined, prosecutor says.
Aug. 19, 2011

Greene County Prosecutor Dan Patterson can't say whether the Republic School District did anything wrong in the circumstances surrounding the alleged sexual assault of a student.

But he is weighing in on what the law requires and how officials encourage mandated reporters to handle serious allegations of assault.
A federal lawsuit has been filed against the Republic School District, claiming a female student was repeatedly harassed, sexually assaulted and raped -- once and then again after reporting the earlier alleged abuse to school officials.
Attorneys for the girl argue school officials failed to protect her and failed to comply with the state's mandatory reporting law when they did not call the state hotline after being told of the assaults.
"It would be out of place to comment on what, if anything, the school did. I wouldn't know," Patterson said.
But speaking in general terms, he said, this type of scenario is an example of the questions that surround what is required of a mandated reporter.
Patterson said authorities have depended on the Children's Division, which maintains the hotline and investigates allegations, to determine what constitutes an incident that should be reported.
He said the Children's Division interprets the law to mean that an incident involving only children doesn't fall under a mandated call.
But, he cautions, Children's Division policy -- and that of local criminal justice officials -- is that a serious allegation should be turned over to authorities and hotlined.
"Err on the side of caution and make the hotline," Patterson said.
Talking with child victims or witnesses is a difficult and psychologically loaded issue, he said.
Mandated reporters aren't required to fix the situation or to step in. Really, Patterson said, all a mandated reporter is required to do is listen and make a phone call.
"It's not your job to investigate the case," Patterson said. "Just let them talk and just ask them questions to ensure the child is immediately safe."
Beyond that, proper authorities should be brought in, like officials from the Child Advocacy Center, he said. Those interviewers are specifically trained in how to interview and interact with children properly in light of serious issues.
He said sometimes well-meaning officials complicate a situation when they start asking questions.
Patterson said small things like the environment can affect how children interpret the situation.
Even something as small as being called to a principal's office to talk can signal to a child that he or she is in trouble, he said.
"There's all kinds of things that can affect an interview," he said.
http://www.news-leader.com/article/20110819/NEWS01/108190341/0/ENTERTAINMENT12/?odyssey=nav%7Chead


Quote:
Hard to prosecute one party for under the age of consent sex when both are under that age.

The issue really isn't whether to prosecute. The issue is that a minor reported being sexually abused to school officials, and she remained in a situation (being in school) where she was being subjected to being near the person she accused of the abuse and who had continued opportunity to abuse her.
Given that she is a minor, and one with special needs, the primary concern should be the safety and welfare of the girl--which is why the school should have called a hotline immediately, or referred this to The Child Advocacy Center, to let them investigate and decide what to do. As a minor, the girl cannot consent to sexual acts, and she was complaining to the school about them, saying they were unwanted. The school had no business making any sort of judgment call about the girl's allegations--she was reporting child sexual abuse to them, and that's not something that school officials should deal with on their own. And they handled the situation very badly and that may have put the girl in continued jeopardy the following school year which resulted in her (again) being raped.

Quote:
Prosecutors and protestors examine actions of Republic school officials toward rape allegations
August 18, 2011
By Emily Rittman, Ben Knaup

Republic, Mo — Protestors are joining the controversy surrounding a lawsuit filed against members of the Republic R-III School District. They are calling for school officials to resign or be removed from their positions after a student with special needs says she was raped twice. The former student says she was punished for reporting the rape and asked to write an apology letter to her accused rapist.

Under Missouri law, teachers are mandatory reporters. They are required to report child abuse to the appropriate authorities. Greene County Prosecutor Dan Patterson says the law appears to have some inconsistencies when the person accused of abusing a child is also a juvenile.

Patterson says the school did not violate the state's mandated reporter law because an adult wasn't involved in the alleged rape. “It was not meant to apply to crimes committed among juveniles,” Patterson said. In serious cases involving juveniles abusing other children, Patterson says officials should make a hotline call to err on the side of caution. “Perhaps in this case it could have helped by facilitating an earlier meeting with the Child Advocacy Center so that interview would not have been performed by non-forensic trained interviewers,” Patterson said.
“Whoever they disclose to, should make that child feel comfortable, safe and listen,” Patterson said. “It is not the role under our protocol, for either school officials or even the initial responding law enforcement officer to interview that child.”

“Something has got to be done with our school system in Republic,” resident and mandated reporter Casey Crump said. Crump works with children at a facility in the Ozarks that is not affiliated with Republic schools. She wants the Republic superintendent; middle school principal, middle school counselor and a school resource officer involved removed from their positions. “They've shown that they are not capable of taking care and protecting our children,” Crump said.

Crump says she is outraged by the claims in the lawsuit. A former student says the first time she reported a rape, school officials interrogated her causing her to recant or change her story, according to the lawsuit. The lawsuit also claims the following year the girl reported being raped again by the same boy in the back of the library. Her mother took the girl to the Child Advocacy Center. Her attorneys say a safe exam confirmed she was raped and linked DNA to the boy in question who has since pleaded guilty. “If they would have handled it properly the first time it never would have happened the second time,” Crump said.

Protestors plan to gather at 5:00 Monday night at the next school board meeting. They then plan to go over to the Republic City Council meeting and protest there.

If prosecutors had decided school officials had violated the law, Patterson says the time limit has expired to file a misdemeanor charge for failing to report. According to the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, failure to report is classified as a misdemeanor in 39 States including Missouri. In Missouri, a misdemeanor charge must be filed within one year of committing of the crime.
http://articles.kspr.com/2011-08-18/report-child-abuse_29903414


While the school might not have violated the mandatory reporting law, they definitely did not show appropriate judgment in how they handled this matter. Maybe they were trying to cover-up what was going on at the school--sexual activity, lack of proper security and supervision, etc., in order to protect themselves. But, they should have called a hotline and gotten the proper people involved. Instead, they dealt with this themselves in an awful manner (expelling the girl, etc) that also resulted in the continued sexual abuse of this child by another student. That might well make them liable for damages in the civil suit.

But it is good that the civil suit is bringing all of this out into the open. Let the community see who is running their schools and what sorts of decisions these people are making.





BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Aug, 2011 04:19 am
@firefly,
Well there is still the question was the employees of the school district who look into the matter train or not train to do so.

What was their conclusions IE no sexual intercourse between the girl and the boy or teenage consensus sex with the girl for whatever reason reporting otherwise?

With the demand apologize to the boy from the girl that the school demanded clearly they came to the firm conclusion that she was lying.

Quote:
Maybe they were trying to cover-up what was going on at the school--sexual activity, lack of proper security and supervision, etc., in order to protect themselves.


Lord if any school report every time they become aware of sexual activity between teenagers they would have to had more people on the phones to the hotline then teaching in the class room.
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Aug, 2011 12:58 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
Well there is still the question was the employees of the school district who look into the matter train or not train to do so.

If that question still remains for you, I suggest you go back and read my last post.

When was it ever the job of school personnel to investigate a report of child sexual abuse? No, such people are not trained forensic examiners. According to the prosecutor quoted in the two articles I posted, the initial interview of the child isn't even supposed to be made by law enforcement--it's supposed to be referred to experts in interviewing children about such matters. All the school should do is pick up the phone and call a child abuse hotline and report what the child told them. Even if such action wasn't mandated in this instance, because it was child on child sexual abuse, the school should have taken that line of action simply as a matter of good judgment to protect the welfare and safety of the child.
The way that they chose to handle this situation was horrible, and I wouldn't be surprised if they all get fired as a result. What they did was harmful to this child and endangered her welfare by exposing her to continued sexual abuse. Now that the civil suit has brought this out into the open, many in the community are outraged about what was done.
Quote:

Lord if any school report every time they become aware of sexual activity between teenagers they would have to had more people on the phones to the hotline then teaching in the class room.


What even makes you think this girl is even a teenager? She is only in the 7th grade. She is also in special education, so she likely has some intellectual limitations. And she is a minor, who not only cannot legally consent to sex, she went to the school officials to complain about being sexually abused. When school officials receive complaints of sexual abuse they should be expected to notify a child abuse hotline, whether the instance is a mandated situation or not. All school officials should do is report--they should never investigate a complaint of sexual abuse--not only can they not do a proper forensic interview, they cannot conduct an appropriate medical examination.

The manner in which the school handled this situation was outrageous.









BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 20 Aug, 2011 01:22 pm
@firefly,
Sorry once more for the ten time or so in the county I live in there is a fully empower police department as part of the school system.

With large public school systems this is not all that uncommon and even with some large private universities for that matter.

Such people do have at least the training to be first responders concerning claimed sexual abused cases and when claims on their faces are not back by the evidences they can and they should filter them out.

Tying up further resources on false claims does no one any service.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sat 20 Aug, 2011 01:31 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
When school officials receive complaints of sexual abuse they should be expected to notify a child abuse hotline
Unless the parent is the alleged perp the school should notify the parents, and leave it at that. I am opposed to most mandatory reporting as well as many of the efforts by the state to depower families....the systematic removal of the rights of parents.
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

 
Copyright © 2025 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.17 seconds on 07/18/2025 at 02:35:13