Hey, Can A Woman "Ask To Get Raped"?

@firefly,

firefly seems to think that knowledge of bad laws is all that's required. If they are passed by politicians then everyone must have support it. You continually insult others but dont like being insulted back. That is called a weak character.

She continually insists that anyone who says rape laws are being abused is sexist. Obviously rape laws are one of the very few (if any) human endeavours that are perfect and can not be discussed.

One in five people has some degree of mental disorder. That means women too, by the way. Depending on the survey, anywhere between 40-60 % of women have lied about being raped. What if mentally ill women were prone to crying rape ? She wants to increase that number by urging women who have not been raped to come forward. She is creating awareness, not enjoying titillating stories of her favourite combination of sex and power. Nevertheless, having made a point, she continues to drool over rape.

I have given her references which has ignored several times and now claims I don't know rape law. I have mentioned the situation here but she never responded. Clearly this is exactly like rape where the woman can do anything, make any claim and men will rush to her aid. Poor poor pitiful women....

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@Ionus,

Considering we are on page 389 of this thread I don't see how you can say ..........."and cannot be discussed". Seems to me there's been a lot of discussion happening here.

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@firefly,

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Ahhh...dummy ? We have been discussing rape laws.

No, you've shown no knowledge of actual rape laws or what is contained in them.

Actually you are wrong again. We have been discussing rape laws.

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Arella Mae is a rape victim,

There is a 40-60% chance she is lying. THAT is my whole point.

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she has discussed that in this thread

Not while I have been posting she hasnt.

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@Ionus,

Whether you believe I have been raped or not has no bearing on the facts. I haven't talked about it except to indirectly refer to it since way back when the discussion was a lengthy one.

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@firefly,

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You really are an insensitive pig to make that comment to Arella Mae. Arella Mae is a rape victim, and she has discussed that in this thread. If you're trying to prove what a vulgar lowlife you are, you've done a fine job of it.

Nobody has to be in this thread...if AM is still fragile then she should certainly consider not being here. There are loads of places both in real life and on the web for victims and survivors to go for comfort and where they will not be bothered with anyone disagreeing with them. I feel strongly that having been raped or been through some other sexual trauma should not entitle anyone to special treatment here. I also feel that those who claim to be women here should get no special treatment. We have no way to know who is behind a screen name, and in the world of ideas neither sex should get a handicap...the presumption that they are inferior to the other sex.

Ionus is rude, but he does not seem to discriminate in favor of men from what I have seen.

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@firefly,

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You mean the rape in the 3rd degree law that you completely misinterpreted? The ONE SENTENCE, extremely simply worded law, that was too difficult for you to understand, and consequently left you insisting, "The absence of a 'yes' is a 'no'"--when the law clearly says otherwise

Washington is well recognized as one of three states that have moved to affirmative consent, which means that we are now a "if you did not get a yes then it is no" state. We are not a "no means no" state. That you claim not to know, or that in-spite of your claimed intelligence that you cant understand the truth is not credible. You are of course once again lying in the hopes that somebody might not be bright enough to detect your dishonesty.

Good luck with that....

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@Arella Mae,

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I am sorry you feel the need to say such things to me.

I have been called a rapist and a supporter of rape. Dont whine to me about being harsh. Your side started it, now man up and take the consequences.

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You said you were a victim of rape and I know what it is like to have painful and angry feelings leftover from it. I forgive you.

I could not seek justice because of the Libby Lobby....did you get justice ?

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I would never deny that I've had more sexual partners than I should have.

Which produces in most women the same long term effect as being raped. So you got a double hit.

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Unfortunately, because of what my father did to me, I equated sex with love for a long, long time.

I witnessed a pre-teen girl having sex with her foster father and mother. I went to the Police, a female officer didnt believe me. That girl later suicided. The Libby Lobby is not about women's rights, it is about power to a few individuals.

One of the bitter disputes I had with my Uni is where the female leacherers (called lecturers) have a meeting with all new female students to discuss their rights. At the end of it, there is a quick talk about the advantages of female homosexual relations. Apparently they cant be stuffed going to a bar and winning onto girls, they like fresh meat delivered...some of whom are underaged. Why cant it be stopped ? Because Uni's are full of poofs and dykes who want kids. The local Libby Lobby sees it as a girls right to be enticed into bed with a fat arsed ugly old female lecturer, so long as she remembers to scream rape if a boy goes near her.

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@firefly,

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probably does have reason to fear for his safety in jail--other inmates might well want to beat him to a pulp.

I am surprised you mention gaol...most rapes occur to men, but you don't care about rape do you ?

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@Ionus,

Quote:

I am surprised you mention gaol...most rapes occur to men, but you don't care about rape do you

And she is all hot to trot to fill up the jails, but then she admits that the citizens well being well might not be protected there. Unless I miss my guess she is also quite happy that they will be abused while under the care and control of the state.

Quite the humanitarian she is....so much for the rights not to be violated that she keeps harping on. Oh wait, that is only for the privileged class, women.

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@Ionus,

You seem to have a problem understanding what I am saying. I am not whining to you or anyone else. You may not see what you said as being insensitive but I and others do. I am sorry you feel that way.

I didn't get a double hit. I said I no longer feel that way. As far as justice goes did my dad serve time? Yes, he did. He also admitted what he did. Before he died we made our peace and I will always be grateful for that.

I don't know anyone in the libby lobby so I can't speak to that.

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@Ionus,

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Depending on the survey, anywhere between 40-60 % of women have lied about being raped

That is an extremely inaccurate figure. Most false allegations studies include honest suspect mis-identifications, as well as false allegations made by police and D.A.s, in addition to outright lies made by complainants, and these figures tend to be lumped together. Literature reviews of the false allegations studies reveal many of them to be quite flawed, and even the author of one widely cited study has said that his own findings should be viewed with extreme caution. Those who specialize in this area, as well as the U.S. Justice Department, estimate that the percentage of false allegations is no greater than 8-10%. Throughout this thread, I have posted references to substantiate that figure and I will not bother posting them again.

People abuse all sorts of laws, and people make false allegations of all sorts of crimes, and not just rape. That people behavior in this manner has little to do with the law itself. And I don't doubt that emotionally disturbed individuals might be more prone to make false allegations regarding any crime. But, you don't abolish a law because people make false allegations, just as you don't abolish the tax codes because some people cheat on their income tax.

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She wants to increase that number by urging women who have not been raped to come forward

What is the basis for your making that statement? I would never urge someone to make a false allegation regarding any crime. If you are going to make statements like that, you shouldn't be surprised that I'll ignore your posts.

The topic of this thread is the crime of rape--actual crimes of rape. The issue of false allegations does little to address the fact that actual rapes occur and that the crime is underreported and most often goes unpunished.

If you think the rape laws of your country are "bad law" you certainly haven't explained the basis of your thinking by referring to the actual laws, how they are worded, and what you find problematic about them.

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@Arella Mae,

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Considering we are on page 389 of this thread I don't see how you can say ..........."and cannot be discussed". Seems to me there's been a lot of discussion happening here.

I have raised several points that have been ignored

1) the number of women crying wolf when they werent raped - supported by studies that no-one wants to talk about
2) the stupidity of handing even more power to women when convictions are already based largely on their word and have a very high rate of wrongful convictions
3) the stupidity of moving away from physical evidence
4) the need in any discussion of rape to include the single largest group of rape victims, men in prison who are far more likely to rape when they are paroled

None of this has been deemed relevant by the opposing view who simply want to call me a rapist and get each other excited with stories of horrible rapes that suggest a very sick mind in anyone who deliberately searches these stories out.

Tell me what has this

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lot of discussion happening here

been about exactly ?

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@Ionus,

You have already just as much admitted you have not read everything on this thread. Not a single one of us has condoned any woman or man accusing someone falsely of rape. We have stated numerous times that person needs to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

You and those that think like you are either ignoring it or just are not interested because we don't post it in every post.

I am not going to give you a rundown of everything said in these 389 pages of discussion. If you are interested then I suggest you go back and read it for yourself.

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arella mae
Nope --- just altered the sex of whome he was talking about... have another read.

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@Arella Mae,

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You may not see what you said as being insensitive but I and others do.

You talk about insensitivity when your side has blatantly ignored the majority of rapes and talked about the few that happen to women whilst saying that the laws the way they are now are fair and just. Are you really that insensitive or just brainwashed ?

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I didn't get a double hit.

Yes, you did. Being raped as a child and the resultant sexual promiscuity that usually arises from that is a double hit.

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I said I no longer feel that way.

Which has nothing to do with how these things DID affect you in the past.

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I don't know anyone in the libby lobby so I can't speak to that.

Here is another problem. Many women plead ignorance when things are done on their behalf, but the saying " For evil to triumph, all that is required is for good men to do nothing", also applies to women when the Libby Lobby is wrecking society.

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@hawkeye10,

Quote:

Washington is well recognized as one of three states that have moved to affirmative consent, which means that we are now a "if you did not get a yes then it is no" state

No, Hawkeye, all consent is "affirmative consent"--that's what "consent" means, it means "agreement"--in the case of Washington, it is "freely willing, knowing agreement". All states define "consent" in the affirmative--there is no other way to define the word "consent". But all sexual assault laws laws hinge on lack of consent, because it is the lack of consent that makes the act criminal.

And quite specifically, the rape laws of the state of Washington do not say, that "if you did not get a yes then it is no". They say quite the opposite. They specifically require the "No" to be clearly expressed either verbally or through conduct. The lack of consent must be clearly expressed--it is not just the absence of "yes", or silence, or doing nothing--the lack of consent must be expressed.

IT IS A SIMPLE ONE SENTENCE LAW AND AFTER REPEATEDLY DISCUSSING IT, YOU STILL CAN'T UNDERSTAND IT!
This is the law you are referring to

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Rape in the 3rd Degree
(a) Where the victim did not consent as defined in RCW 9A.44.010(7), to sexual intercourse with the perpetrator and such lack of consent was clearly expressed by the victim's words or conduct

You really continue to make a complete fool of yourself, Hawkeye. If you are of average intelligence, you should be able to understand that simple one sentence law. It means exactly what it says. If the victim expresses lack of consent, and indicates, "No", and sexual intercourse occurs, the act is rape in the 3rd degree.
That's what makes it a "No means no" law. If you don't require an expressed "No", you don't have a "No means no" law. Even you should be able to figure that one out.

What you also fail to appreciate is that your state law is very clear which helps to reduce misinterpretation--it requires the lack of consent to be actively expressed--which means the perpetrator had to disregard the victim's clearly expressed protestations. That is a a very clear indication of why the act is being regarded as rape. It is implying that rape is an intentional disregard of the victim's expressed lack of consent, and consequently implying that the rape is an intentional act.

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You are of course once again lying in the hopes that somebody might not be bright enough to detect your dishonesty.

Hawkeye, your gratuitous insults do not conceal the fact that you repeatedly misinterpret and distort a simple ONE SENTENCE rape law that couldn't be worded more clearly. I am not lying. I can understand what that law says and you can't.

Your problem is, you are so caught up in your craziness about how the "feminists" have changed the laws that you are assuming the law says you must get the partner's consent in order for sexual intercourse to be considered legal. But that's not what your rape in the 3rd degree law says--that is not how it defines rape--it defines rape in terms of lack of consent, clearly expressed lack of consent. There's a big difference between legally requiring her to say, "Yes" and simply requiring that her "No" cannot be ignored. But you, apparently cannot see the difference, because that wouldn't fit in with your preconceived notions of how the "feminists" allegedly changed the laws, so you wind up distorting the actual law so it will fit in with your crazy beliefs about the feminists.

The more you belabor the issue of this particular law the bigger the fool you make of yourself. Your thinking is hopelessly muddled and confused. The law is quite simple and clear--you just don't understand it correctly. The law means exactly what it says.

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@Ionus,

Quote:

I witnessed a pre-teen girl having sex with her foster father and mother. I went to the Police, a female officer didnt believe me.

So, you should have some idea how a rape victim feels if she reports a rape and she is not believed. It is important to take all complaints of rape seriously enough to investigate them--and that's also how the police help to weed out the false allegations.

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@firefly,

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That is an extremely inaccurate figure. Most false allegations studies include honest suspect mis-identifications, as well as false allegations made by police and D.A.s, in addition to outright lies made by complainants, and these figures tend to be lumped together

Bullshit as studies had been posted here that only deal with charges of rape of non-strangers.

In one case a ten year long study in fact where 43 percent of the women recanted.

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@Arella Mae,

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We have stated numerous times that person needs to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

I agree. But what some people posting here seem to fail to understand is that filing a false report is primarily a crime against law enforcement--it takes up police resources and time and wastes tax payer's money. That's why it must be left to the discretion of the police and D.A. whether they want to press charges against the person who files such a false report. And, as crimes go, it is generally not considered a very serious crime with a very heavy penalty. Often, false rape reports do not accuse a specific person. A woman might falsely report being raped by a stranger, accusing no one in particular. And I wouldn't argue that some women who file false reports are emotionally disturbed (which was the situation in both the Duke and Hofstra cases), and that affects whether they want to charge the woman with filing a false report.
If the matter goes to trial, and the woman repeats a false allegation under oath, then she can be charged with perjury which carries a much more significant prison sentence. Most cases involving false allegations, based on deliberate lies by a complainant, would not likely get to trial. D.A.'s will not try a rape case unless there is some chance of winning it, which means the victim must be a fairly solid witness whose testimony will hold up under cross examination. In this thread, exactly one case has been found which resulted in a conviction based only on false testimony by the victim--one conviction. And, in that case, the "victim" voluntarily came forward after several years and revealed she had lied. So, there really is no significant evidence that men are actually being incarcerated based only on deliberate lies of having been raped told by an alleged "victim".

The issue of damages to a man's reputation, as the result of filing a false report, is a civil matter not a criminal one. It is the same as slander or libel, and the person who feels they have been damaged can bring suit in civil court. And I have posted cases in this thread of men who have brought such suits and won substantial awards. The police, D.A.'s, and municipalities can also be sued in civil court over issues of false allegations. But damages to reputation, and emotional pain and suffering, belong in civil court and not criminal court--that is the way our system of justice works.

I think the police should have a lot of leeway in deciding whether they want to charge someone with filing a false report. It depends on the circumstances.

This is a current case--in today's news. This woman, a nun, filed a false rape report. Then she admitted she lied in order to cover-up a consensual sexual encounter with someone else--except that encounter supposedly never occurred either. The woman apparently has some emotional problems. I'm not sure the police should bother charging this woman with anything. I think she's already wasted enough of the taxpayer's money.

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Nun Mary Turcotte recants accusation of rape after police release sketch of made-up suspect
BY Alison Gendar and James Fanelli
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITERS
February 1st 2011

A Brooklyn nun from a fringe Christian sect has confessed to an unholy lie: telling cops she was sexually attacked and left unconscious in a snowbank, sources said Monday.

After a police search for a hulking black man was launched, the 26-year-old white woman from the Apostles of Infinite Love convent in East Flatbush recanted, the sources said.

She told cops she made up the story in an attempt to cover up a consensual sex romp with a bodega worker inside the Glenwood Ave. residence.

A woman in religious garb who answered the door at the convent said the nun, identified as Mary Turcotte, suffered an "emotional break" and made everything up - even her excuse.

"Nothing happened, none of it," said the woman, who declined to give her name.

"It was all proven to be false. It wasn't her fault. She is going to move out and we are going to get her some help."

The convent appears to be linked to a Canadian-based religious order founded in the 1960s by a defrocked Catholic priest who ordained himself Pope.

Turcotte claimed she was headed there the night of Jan. 22 when a thug ambushed her, choked her until she passed out and dragged her - in her habit - eight blocks.

She said she awoke in the snow with her underwear down and her breasts exposed. She said she was treated at a hospital and sought counsel from her Mother Superior.

Police were informed of the rape last Thursday, and put out an alert asking for the public's help in finding a suspect - described as black, 40 to 50 years old, 6-feet-4 and up to 250 pounds.

Cops released a sketch, but they were skeptical someone could have dragged or carried a woman in nun's gear through the streets without drawing notice.

When a penitent Turcotte recanted, her excuse was that she needed a story to cover up a real sexual encounter: bedding a shop worker she sneaked into the convent through the back door, sources said.

Police have not charged her with any crime.

No one at the convent would discuss the order's affiliation, but the Apostles of Infinite Love sect based in Quebec has been described as a cultlike group that has successfully fended off sex abuse allegations.
http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2011/02/01/2011-02-01_nun_rape_tale_was_bed_of_lies.html

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@firefly,

Quote:

I agree. But what some people posting here seem to fail to understand is that filing a false report is primarily a crime against law enforcement--it takes up police resources and time and wastes tax payer's money. That's why it must be left to the discretion of the police and D.A. whether they want to press charges against the person who files such a false report. And, as crimes go, it is generally not considered a very serious crime with a very heavy penalty. Often, false rape reports do not accuse a specific person. A

You take a man and drag his name through the mud for months and force him to spend his life saving in legal defense costs in many cases.

In some cases he is behind bars for a year or so and you have the nerve to state that a false charge of rape is just a crime again law enforcement!!!!

Oh the ones that are a joke because no person is name try telling that to dozens or more innocent men who are taken in as a possible rapists and grill for hours on ends if it a joke to them also and only a crime again law enforcement.

1 Reply

Hey, Can A Woman "Ask To Get Raped"?

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