Hey, Can A Woman "Ask To Get Raped"?

I respectfully disagree. If that were so, a prostitute couldn't file a rape complaint and yet it is a common occurrence.
In the sports bar where I watch NFL games people have posted little plaques with their favorite sayings. I noticed that one read: "A hooker can't be raped, you can only steal her money"
This is a common belief but it's a misconception.

The 1990 Florida Supreme Court Gender Bias Report states that "prostitution is not a victimless crime... Prostitute rape is rarely reported, investigated, prosecuted or taken seriously."

Writing in the Criminal Practice Law Report, Dr. Phyllis Chesler, Emerita Professor of Psychology and Women's Studies at City University of New York, describes the violence that permeates the life of a prostitute and why it’s rare for her to report a rape:


In any case MM. Your post is germane to the thread title-"Can A Woman Ask To Be Raped"
Your answer is -"Yes! If she has "loose" morals. Yes"

The answer should be an unequivocal No!

NONSENSE however it would be nice if the jury would be allow to know that this "rape" could in fact had been a payment dispute instead of a rape.

That she does indeed having a known history of being a sex worker and if she have a history of having payments disputes with her Johns in the past or not.

Her sex history sure the hell matter in this case.

You need to go back and reread my posts.
I have maintained from the start that nobody, male or female, asks to be raped. I am also on record as favoring long prison sentences for anyone that commits a rape.

The disagreement that firefly and I are having has nothing to do with rape itself, but rather with the "rape shield laws", that wont allow a victim to be named in the press.
My attitude has always been that if the accused rapist can be named, and his or her life history can be examined, then out of fairness the victim should get the same treatment.
The example I use is the Duke rape case.
Those young men had their lives ruined, got kicked out of school, and went thrust humiliating experience, because an unnamed victim accused them of rape.
It wasn't until much later, after the case was shown to be bogus, was the supposed victim named.

My attitude is that if its OK to name one, then its OK to name the other.
I am not now, nor have I ever, said that someone can ask to get raped.
lllFor you to assume that I ever have shows that you have not read my posts in this thread.

And if a drunken women jump the bones of a drunken man she should not then be able to charge rape against the poor guy under the theory that she was too drunk to consent to sexual intercourse.

Like the West Point female cadet did to the sleeping male West Point cadet who bed she jump into.

Bill, you've been trying to find a loophole in the rape laws throughout 7,225 posts. It's one of the most pitiful endeavors I have ever seen on A2K.

Those shield laws go a lot farther then name protection in that the accuser sexual history is mostly off limit to the jury but the man past sexual history is an open book.

A fair trial for the man is very secondary to protecting the woman even when a twenty years to life sentence hanging over the guy head.

It seem that the idea is that it is far better that a hundred innocent men are sentence to prison then one rapist walk free.

Shame on me for not thinking that when the woman happen to be the sexual aggressor that drunk or not drunk she have no right to cry rape afterward.

Shame on me that I do not think that a man who is alone in a damn bed sleeping should need to had faced a full court martial if he take up a woman offer for sex when she had jumped into his bed and attack him.

He did get through that loophole by the way but it did his military career no good.

Oh well women are children and men need act as their damn guardians.

Footnote the male cadet who was sleeping name is a matter of public record however even after he was clear the young lady who jumped into his bed and the next day cry raped name is still protected.

I have read some but not all of your posts. I know you don't believe a woman can ask to be raped but this sentence
makes me wonder if you can explain what this behaviour is(other than prior false rape allegations.)

BTW I think everyone here knows the Duke case was a travesty partly caused by an overzealous limelight seeking prosecutor and it was a terrible price for those boys to pay.

That ain't right. I'd love to see the article.

I posted the damn thing at least two times on this thread with links.........you could try google yourself.

the trafficking charge was valid based upon the delivery of the sister, the forced work charge was not. The woman chose to stay with this guy under the conditions that he demanded, she always had the ability to say no and leave, and lot leaving was her fault and her problem.

You are aware I hope that there was no sexual assault or rape charge, though I have no doubt that you wanted one and would work towards making sure that a case just like this brought in the future would gain a rape charge.

Many years ago, my little sister had a serious drug problem.
If you had drugs, you got sex from her, because she wanted drugs.
It didn't matter if you were male or female, or what those drugs were. She would have sex with 2 or more people at the same time, just to get drugs.
Eventually, she let herself get conned and she got raped by someone that told her he had some cocaine for her.
Yes, she had a problem, but she still put herself in the position where it could happen because of her actions.
I don't condone what happened, and my little sister has cleaned up and been clean for 15 years now, but she even admits that it was her behaviour that put her in the position for it to happen.

I read your heartbreaking story with disbelief. I can't imagine what it must have been like to through that...
but I agree with firefly: every rape is a separate event and is not a product of former events. The only one who put your sister in the position for it to happen was the coke dealer.

Young woman get drunk at a party then jump a man sleeping by himself and then regretting having lost her virginity in such a manner on her birthday yet therefore wish to hang the guy.

We are not teaching our young women to take the responsibly for their own stupid actions it would seem not even at West Point.
------------------------------------------------------------
see below…………………


http://www.nytimes.com/1997/01/23/nyregion/west-point-rape-trial-focuses-on-female-cadet-s-drinking.html

West Point Rape Trial Focuses on Female Cadet's Drinking
By FRANK BRUNI
Published: January 23, 1997
Sign In to E-Mail

Print

WEST POINT, N.Y., Jan. 22 — Testimony in the court-martial here of a male cadet charged with raping a female classmate focused today on the questions of precisely how drunk the 20-year-old woman was and, by implication, whether she had the ability to consent to a sexual act.

Prosecutors sought to prove that at a party the two cadets attended last Memorial Day weekend at a vacation cottage in Stockholm, N.J., the young woman was virtually incoherent, flopping against people and bumping into furniture.

But the attorneys defending the accused cadet, James P. Engelbrecht, a 22-year-old senior at the United States Military Academy here, elicited confirmation from witnesses that Cadet Engelbrecht, having retreated to a bunk bed in a back room of the cottage early that night, did not see the signs that the woman was severely intoxicated.

Defense attorneys also elicited observations from witnesses that the young woman was acting flirtatiously with various people at the party, testimony clearly meant to bolster Cadet Engelbrecht's contention that the woman came to his bed and initiated a sexual encounter.



And it became clear that the decision of the all-male jury of seven senior Army officers could boil down a delicate question of law: If a woman is too drunk to know what she is doing, but a man is not aware of that, can he be guilty of rape? Military regulations suggest that he can, but the military judge's instructions to the jury on the point will be crucial.

Witnesses said the young woman drank steadily through the evening of May 24 and into the early hours of May 25, which was her birthday.

''At one point, it looked like she was going to walk into a wall,'' said Jenny A. Ligon, a college student in Lubbock, Tex., who attended the party. At another point, Ms. Ligon testified, ''I was concerned because it looked like she was going to throw up.''

But Cadet Daniel D. Cox said he saw Cadet Engelbrecht and the woman together in the top of a bunk bed at about 1:30 A.M., and that the woman seemed fully conscious.

Cadet Cox and other witnesses also affirmed that there was somebody in the bottom bunk of the bedroom all night long, and that people wandered into the room, details relevant to a second charge against Cadet Engelbrecht for committing an indecent act. Under military law, having sex with someone in a place where others might be present constitutes an indecent act.

Other witnesses vouched for the the fact that the woman was a virgin before that night.

The woman's sister recounted getting a call from her less than 12 hours after the incident and wishing her a happy birthday. ''I said, 'Howdoes it feel to be the only 20-year-old virgin on the face of the earth?' '' the sister recalled. The cadet immediately burst into tears, she said.


Ads by Google



http://articles.cnn.com/1997-01-24/us/9701_24_cadet.rape_1_female-cadet-james-engelbrecht-west-point?_s=PM:US

West Point cadet cleared of rape


January 24, 1997

WEST POINT, New York CNN A military jury acquitted a senior at the U.S. Military Academy at West Point Friday evening of raping a 20yearold female cadet.

Jurors had deliberated Friday afternoon before returning their verdict for James Engelbrecht, 22, of Conroe, Texas.

Engelbrecht claimed the woman climbed into the top bunk of the bed where he was sleeping during a party May 24 at a New Jersey home and that she initiated consensual sex.


Prosecutors alleged the female cadet was too drunk to give consent, but Engelbrecht claimed he didnt know she had been drinking heavily because he went to bed early.

This was the first court martial trial at West Point since 1990. If he had been convicted, Engelbrecht faced life inprison, dismissal from the Army and loss of all pay and benefits.

http://www.nytimes.com/1997/01/23/nyregion/west-point-rape-trial-focuses-on-female-cadet-s-drinking.html

West Point Rape Trial Focuses on Female Cadet's Drinking
By FRANK BRUNI
Published: January 23, 1997
Sign In to E-Mail

Print

WEST POINT, N.Y., Jan. 22 — Testimony in the court-martial here of a male cadet charged with raping a female classmate focused today on the questions of precisely how drunk the 20-year-old woman was and, by implication, whether she had the ability to consent to a sexual act.

Prosecutors sought to prove that at a party the two cadets attended last Memorial Day weekend at a vacation cottage in Stockholm, N.J., the young woman was virtually incoherent, flopping against people and bumping into furniture.

But the attorneys defending the accused cadet, James P. Engelbrecht, a 22-year-old senior at the United States Military Academy here, elicited confirmation from witnesses that Cadet Engelbrecht, having retreated to a bunk bed in a back room of the cottage early that night, did not see the signs that the woman was severely intoxicated.

Defense attorneys also elicited observations from witnesses that the young woman was acting flirtatiously with various people at the party, testimony clearly meant to bolster Cadet Engelbrecht's contention that the woman came to his bed and initiated a sexual encounter.

http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/news/1997/01/26/1997-01-26_duty__honor__scandal.html

The allegations centered on a 1996 Memorial Day weekend party in New Jersey, a booze-fueled night where many of the attendees were Army football players and their guests.

Engelbrecht, of Conroe, Tex., and his accuser were both drinking that night. The female cadet was downing "beer bongs," while Engelbrecht still hung over from the previous night stuck with mixed drinks.

From there, accounts varied widely about what happened. The accuser, who said she was a virgin before that night, testified that she passed out shortly after midnight on May 25 her 20th birthday.

When she awoke, she found herself beneath Engelbrecht, who she said did not respond to her pleas to "get off." She said the next thing she remembered was waking up in the morning naked, with blood on her thighs.

Engelbrecht, meanwhile, testified that he was asleep in a bunk bed, awakening when the woman began kissing him. He said the woman initiated the sex and claimed that he quickly ended the act.

A fellow fourth-year cadet, C.W. Estes, a star defensive lineman on Army's football team, supported Engelbrecht's story, testifying that he walked in on the couple and saw the woman straddling Engelbrecht.

"The way society works, as soon as there's an accusation, there's a presumption of guilt, not innocence," said McNamara. "It's like the Michael Irvin case. Everyone thought he was guilty before there was even a trial."

The trial has cast a shadow on the idyllic campus, which sits on a bluff overlooking the Hudson River.

The accused and the accuser both sobbed after the verdict was delivered. Engelbrecht's attorney predicted the cadet will "be a very good officer" but the woman, who is on medical leave, was granted an honorable discharge.

"We expected this in a man's world," the woman's mother said.

"People will talk, and people will be upset," said Soldi. "After a couple of days, I think things will go back to normal for most people. Everyone except the two people involved in the trial. Their lives will always be impacted by this."

Many cadets were concerned that the public would draw improper conclusions that the accusations were somehow indicative of relationships between males and females at West Point.

"Everyone looks out for one another," said Susanne Corlett, a fourth-year cadet from Alamo, Calif. "It's more of a brother-sister relationship."

"This is a college campus," said Paula Jones, a second-year cadet from Houston.

"Problems are going to occur everywhere. Look at the Naval Academy. It's not like things are perfect. But I'm treated well. As long as you pull your own weight, they treat you well."

Yes, women never never had any responsibility for their actions when there is a male to blame be that male a dishonest coke dealer or a sleeping West Point Cadet.

Where was this woman as her hard luck life was being decided for her, the playpen? Just when I think that this nutty liberal position that women are children and must be treated like children cant get any worse along comes panzade to prove me wrong.

Except that she was terrified of Marcus, because he had threatened to kill family members of another "slave" who wanted to leave him, and he was blackmailing her with threats of releasing sexually explicit photos of her to her family and to the media. So, whether she had a free "choice" about leaving is highly debatable. She testified that she felt "powerless" to leave Marcus. He kept all of the money he made off of her. He tried to maintain control over her even after she left him. The jury believed her.

Is this case your idea of a "consensual" Master/Slave relationship? Couldn't it have become non consenting, on Jodi's part, after an initial period when it was consenting? Do you really think she consented to all of the continued extreme abuse? What's your idea of consent?

They didn't have to bother with a rape charge. They got him on non consent in other areas.

So, what is it you fear will be criminalized with regard to BDSM?

So, are you saying that mysteryman's sister wasn't raped? Or that she deserved to be raped because she was a drug addict?

It seems they got it right. That's a good thing.