Hey, Can A Woman "Ask To Get Raped"?

@firefly,

You know firefly I just can see a nice poster with a picture of a bull dike and the words if you level a false charge of rape this is going to be your next "boyfriend".

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@BillRM,

I would like to see a male and a female and under the pic the words "be responsible for your sexual behaviour and choices"

It will never happen though, because it is not skewed to favor women. It promotes that hated principle of equality.

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@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

And once more how do you have sex with a unwilling partner without force or the threat of force?

YOU DON'T

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@hawkeye10,

What amazed me is that all the women here should have sons,fathers, brothers, uncles and male friends and should therefore care about having fair and reasonable laws in all area of male/female relationships including the sexual assaults laws.

That sure is not the case with firefly and a few others female posters drawn to this thread.

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@OmSigDAVID,

To my knowledge you're the only poster here with judicial experience, so it would be easy for you to cut down on the nonsensical psychobabble that's gone on for 3 dozen pages now by simply explaining the difference between inculpatory and exculpatory consent. What little research I could undertake on the legal theory involved brought up the name of Professor Bergelson as the world authority on the subject. Pls search for link to article:
docs.law.gwu.edu/stdg/gwlr/issues/pdf/Bergelson.pdf
The Right to Be Hurt: Testing the Boundaries of Consent
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - Quick View
by V Bergelson

Quote:

In most instances, the role of con-
sent is inculpatory, i.e., consent defeats even a prima facie harm. Con-
sensual sex is not rape, consensual possession of other people’s
belongings is not theft, and consensual presence on other people’s
premises is not trespass. In contrast, the role of consent in cases of
bodily harm is exculpatory: consensual injury or death is still regretta-
ble, even when morally or legally justified.

The article also includes a historical overview of the validity of consent from Roman law to today's EU and US codes and jurisprudence:

Quote:

Under the Model Penal Code (“MPC”), consent is a defense if it
“negatives an element of the offense or precludes the infliction of the
harm or evil sought to be prevented by the law defining the offense.”
Accordingly, valid consent precludes rape, kidnapping, theft, burglary
and many other serious crimes, which are premised on the lack of
consent.
This general rule is of limited use, however, in the area of of-
fenses involving bodily harm. MPC § 2.11(2) invalidates one’s con-
sent to personal harm in all but three sets of circumstances: one, when
the injury is not serious; two, when the injury or its risk are “reason-
ably foreseeable hazards” of participation in a “lawful athletic contest
or competitive sport or other concerted activity not forbidden by
law”; and, three, when the consent establishes a justification for the
conduct under Article Three of the MPC.

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@Intrepid,

BillRM wrote:

And once more how do you have sex with a unwilling partner without force or the threat of force?

Using alcohol or another drug is certainly one possibility.

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@DrewDad,

You'll want to look up the definition for validity of consent - if consent has been granted. Excerpts from Bergelson article just cited:

Quote:

...Certain groups of people (e.g., children, the mentally ill, or the intoxicated) in most instances are deemed incapable of granting valid consent.

and also

Quote:

Consent obtained by duress or fraud regarding the nature of the perpetrator’s act is void ab initio.

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@High Seas,

That was rather my point: you can have sex with an unwilling partner by drugging them. Being drugged, they are unable to consent to the sex act. Since they are unable to consent to the sex act, then the act itself is rape.

Bill, you asked this question in relation to your wife earlier, and the answer is that yes, you would technically be raping your wife if you had sex with her when she's intoxicated. Whether she would choose to press charges is another question.

1 Reply

@DrewDad,

But don't you see - consent can still be granted, and that's where some of the confusion here comes from: the issue becomes if the consent is valid. How drunk or drugged was the other person? Even for driving, the blood-alcohol limits vary by state - there's no easy line to be drawn under the law.

1 Reply

@High Seas,

High Seas wrote:

But don't you see - consent can still be granted,

Um... no. The person can say "yes", but if they are incapacitated then legally consent has still not been given.

1 Reply

@DrewDad,

DrewDad wrote:

High Seas wrote:
But don't you see - consent can still be granted,

Um... no. The person can say "yes", but if they are incapacitated then legally consent has still not been given.

I may not be reading it accurately, but I thing HS was simply saying that with incapacitation would come some ambiguity in determining in court whether legal consent was given.

3 Replies

@ossobuco,

I remember, yes.

Plenty of asshats on this thread (sigh).

1 Reply

@sozobe,

sozobe wrote:

I remember, yes.

Plenty of asshats on this thread (sigh).

I only count a couple asshats. 'Less you count me, then there's three.

2 Replies

@snood,

Awww snood - you have never been an asshat around here.

Osso - I had no idea that you were raped. Your courage in telling about it on here is highly commendable. So sorry you were put through that, but thank you for being an inspiration to us all.

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@DrewDad,

Quote:

Using alcohol or another drug is certainly one possibility

.

That is a form of both an assault and force if you employed them behind the woman back.

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@High Seas,

Quote:

or the intoxicated

Not if the person enter into the intoxicated state willingly.

2 Replies

@snood,

snood wrote:

HS was simply saying that with incapacitation would come some ambiguity in determining in court whether legal consent was given.

1. I was answering Bill's question of how rape can occur without force or threat of force, so I'm not sure why HS decided to jump in and muddy the waters.
2. I'm sure there is ambiguity at times. There's ambiguity in most of life, however. Everyone has to decide for themselves how much risk they want to engage in, so judging your partners sobriety is just another thing in life that has to be evaluated.

2 Replies

@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

Not if the person enter into the intoxicated state willingly.

I imagine that depends on in which state the activity occurs.

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@snood,

You are right, the ambiguity surrounding whether consent was given, in a he-said she-said situation, with no other evidence given to support a rape charge, would create a major problem for the D.A. in trying a case.

That's why most of the cases never get to court. Rape is a relatively easy crime to get away with, particularly date rape.

When the rape is reported to the police, they decide whether the situation described, and the evidence to support it, constitutes a rape charge. A great deal of the time, nothing further happens with the case. Either they don't believe the woman, or they believe her but know her version of events can't be substantiated. A good deal of the time, the rape kit isn't even examined. That means they don't even collect DNA to enter into a data base. So, a large percentage of the time, absolutely nothing happens after a woman reports a rape.

That's the problem for a woman who has actually been raped but where there is no evidence of severe bruising, or tearing because the man simply physically overpowered her. If the couple has been fooling around and they have been engaging in foreplay, and the woman then indicates she does not want to have intercourse, and the man simply ignores her, suddenly gets on top of her and penetrates her anyway, she has been raped. That's not that hard for a large man
to do to a woman who is much smaller than he is. But how can the woman, or the D.A., support her claim of rape? They often may not be able to support it, so no charges are ever brought. A good of the time women don't even report the rape because they feel they won't be believed.

It is fairly easy to get away with raping a woman. All the statistics indicate that.

1 Reply

@DrewDad,

Quote:

judging your partners sobriety is just another thing in life that has to be evaluated

.

Sorry at least under florida law a woman can not try to place a partner in prison because she got drunk.

1 Reply

Hey, Can A Woman "Ask To Get Raped"?

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