25
   

Hey, Can A Woman "Ask To Get Raped"?

 
 
BillRM
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2010 10:36 am
@firefly,
How in the hell do you mount a defense of a crime that was suppose to had occur forty years before?

How many men had been send to prison under those type of charges only to be found out later that the woman had have false memories of the events?

Oh men are never send to prison on the word of a woman alone Firefly?
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2010 10:49 am
A date rape. No matter how foolish this woman was, no matter that she had discussed sex in exchange for money, this was was a brutal rape--and the victim is not to blame for it. This man, who contends the encounter was "consensual", showed up prepared to rape her, and he will be appropriately punished.
The case illustrates larger issues about the potential dangers of online dating and the way a victim's character can be impugned when online communications are part of the criminal investigation.

Quote:
Woman describes rape by a man she met through sugardaddyforme.com
Anthony Colarossi
Orlando Sentinel
December 3, 2010

The name of the dating website is called SugarDaddyForMe.com, and that is where a young, female rape victim from Tampa first started communicating with a middle-aged man named Marcelo Alves.

The 22-year-old woman's testimony this week during Alves' rape trial helped convince an Orange County jury that he was guilty of four counts of sexual battery with a deadly weapon, among other charges. He faces a potential life sentence.

The case, however, illustrates larger issues about the potential dangers of online dating and the way a victim's character can be impugned when online communications are part of the criminal investigation.

Days before jurors found Alves guilty Friday, his victim explained sordid details of explicit online chats and then phone conversations she shared with a man she thought was "Mark Garcia." Those communications ultimately led to a violent rendezvous outside a multi-million dollar home in the Dr. Phillips area and then a brutal rape outside and inside the victim's car, she said.

The man she thought was Garcia never showed up for the planned meeting. Instead, Alves, wearing pantyhose over his face, tackled the woman in an isolated driveway area, put a knife to her neck and told her to "shut up" repeatedly before raping the woman, she said.

At the time of the attack in March 2009, Alves helped run the Valencia Community College website as a contract worker. He also had a wife, kids, a nice home — all lost as a result of his actions.

"I kept saying, like, 'Please don't kill me,' " the crying victim testified Tuesday. She recalled being raped in the rear passenger area of her car and outside the vehicle, as well.

The Orlando Sentinel does not identify victims of sex crimes.

Alves also testified, saying the sex was pre-arranged and consensual, but too many other factors undermined his defense, including the fact that he used large knife, wore the pantyhose as a mask, lured the victim to an isolated location outside a vacant mansion and portrayed himself as another man online.

In her closing argument, Assistant State Attorney Kelly Hicks stared at Alves, saying the woman involved "is a real victim" of an attack "she will remember for the rest of her life."

Pointing at Alves, Hicks said, "That is a real rapist …Find him guilty because he is."

Before describing the sexual attacks, the victim told of how she registered with the online dating site SugarDaddyForMe.com. The site draws men wanting "to mentor pamper & spoil" and women wanting to be "pampered" by "that classy, caring and mature partner."

The site says it prohibits "members from offering money in exchange for sex." A message left with the site's management this week was not returned.

The victim acknowledged she was looking for just such a Sugar Daddy-type relationship. She had problems paying bills and wanted to meet someone who could help her financially, she testified.

She created an online profile on the site, stating she was "fun, outgoing and crazy." She even set something called an "allowance" on her profile, a monetary amount.

Ultimately, Alves, 40, reached her through a Yahoo.com instant messaging system, although he originally learned about her through the SugarDaddyForMe.com site. His screen name read "ReadyToSpoilYou37."

She said they chatted several times, discussing the possibility of sex and also the exchange of money.

"We talked about possibly $1,000," the victim said.

This admission prompted Hicks, the prosecutor, to ask the victim, "Were you a prostitute?"

"No," she answered, explaining that she was willing to meet with the man she thought was Garcia, even without the expectation of money.

She said when she arrived for the date, Alves wasn't the man she expected to be there.

Still, defense attorney Timothy Berry asked the victim about the encounter with Alves and about online conversations in which they discussed having sex.

Alves testified that he was supposed to pay $1,000, but the amount changed as the sex progressed and he refused to pay. The woman threatened to contact police and say he had raped her, he said.

Jennifer Dritt, executive director of the Florida Council Against Sexual Violence, said casting doubt on a victim's character or suggesting she somehow deserved what happened are common defense strategies.

She also said the case is troubling because of its origins online.

"While most online dating relationships don't end up this way, you really don't know who you're talking to," Dritt said. "I think, potentially, they're very dangerous. And where money is exchanged, people can have different interpretations of what's offered and promised."

Alves, originally from Brazil, told detectives soon after the crime that he had met about 10 other women online in the same way, but denied raping any of them. As for the victim in this case, Alves told the detectives, "I didn't want to hurt her. I am not like that."

Aside from the sexual battery counts, Alves was also found guilty of false imprisonment, aggravated assault with a deadly weapon while wearing a mask and witness tampering. He is set to be sentenced Feb. 9.
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/crime/woman-describes-rape-by-a-man-she-met-1099282.html

firefly
 
  2  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2010 11:11 am
Idiot BillRM seems determined to find an excuse for practically every rapist. Thank goodness the more objective jury that convicted the Manchester woman's father of incest/rape, many years after the events, was able to convince themselves of the man's guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.
Sorry, BillRM all females do not lie, and they all do not have "false memories". Incest happens. Some females are raped by their fathers.

A possible future presidential candidate has just found himself embroiled in an ugly incest/rape case because he previously granted this man a pardon. The details are lurid, but that is the reality of incest.
Quote:

Jeremy Giefer could be Tim Pawlenty's Willie Horton
By Nick Pinto
Nov. 30 2010

​When Jeremy Geifer was charged with 11 counts of sexual misconduct November 18th, Tim Pawlenty might have envisioned his presidential ambitions going up in smoke.

Just over three years ago, the Minnesota governor granted Giefer a pardon extraordinary, voting with the two other members of the Board of Pardons to wipe clean his previous criminal sexual record.

Oops?

In 1993, Giefer, then 19 years old, had fathered a daughter with his girlfriend, who was only 14 years old at the time of conception. He pleaded guilty to statutory rape, but claimed to the Star Tribune that he was being unfairly singled out for sticking around and supporting his girlfriend when other men would have bolted.

Giefer served 45 days in jail for the transgression, and 15 years later asked for a pardon extraordinary, the term for a pardon granted to someone who has already served the sentence for the crime they committed. With a pardon extraordinary, Giefer would no longer have to report his conviction, except in special circumstances.

Pawlenty and the board granted the Giefer's request, citing the fact that Giefer was still married to the woman he had statutorily raped, and was raising their children together.

It's an odd rationale--that statutory rape is more acceptable if you marry your victim--but Pawlenty bought it hook, line and sinker and pardoned the sex offender.

Flash forward to this month, when Giefer was charged with another sex crime, this time for allegedly molesting the daughter he conceived with the underage girl he statutory raped and married.

In fact, the complaint alleges, Giefer had been raping his daughter for about six years when Pawlenty granted him his extraordinary pardon.

According to the complaint filed in Blue Earth County Court, the girl, identified only as C.G., told Blue Earth detectives the sexual abuse started when she was nine years old.

"C.G. stated that when she was 13 years old, she wanted to go somewhere; and her dad would tell her to do a sexual favor consisting of a blow job or intercourse and then she would be allowed to go."
Geifer's daughter went into explicit detail with the detectives, painting a vivid picture of routine abuse.

"C.G. stated that when she gives her father a blow job, he doesn't ejaculate but finishes in a towel. She also indicated that Giefer would come into her room when she was sleeping and he would come into her room and have intercourse with her. He also does not use a condom. C.G. stated that Giefer put her on birth control when she was 15 years old."

Most of the abuse happens after her mother and brother leave early in the morning, a time she dreads, according to the victim.

"When Giefer comes into her room, she sees him and she just closes her eyes because she cannot do anything to stop him.... sometimes she tries to get away from Giefer and locks herself in the bathroom. C.G. stated that one time he grabbed her by the arm in the corner of her room and forced her to the ground and had intercourse with her."

Faced with the allegations, Giefer at first denied them outright, saying. "I'm not that type.... I was charged 18 years ago and am not that kind of person."

But the denials quickly turned to prevarications. Yes, Giefer told a detective, he had put his daughter on birth control pills. Yes, he had grabbed her breasts, but "it was just messing around." Yes, he had exposed his penis to her, but it was "accidental." And yes, while on top of his daughter in her bed while "wrestling," he had kissed her neck and stuck his hand inside her shorts and touched her bare vagina.

Giefer was arrested and charged and his bail was initially set at $1 million dollars, though it was dropped to $250,000 after he agreed to have no contact with his daughter and wear an ankle bracelet.

The whole story sounds like a living nightmare for Giefer's daughter. But it could also be one for Pawlenty, who has been exploring a presidential campaign as a tough-on-crime conservative.

As governor, Pawlenty positioned himself as especially tough on sex crimes, advocating for a doubling of sex-offender prison terms and presiding over a dramatic increase in incarcerated sex-offenders. A year ago, the governor was grandstanding over the question of whether jailed sex offenders should have televisions.

Asked for comment yesterday, Pawlenty spokesman Bruce Gordon emailed this statement to City Pages:

"The Governor has consistently opposed pardons for sex offenders and believes sex offenses are heinous. However, the Board made an exception in this case and voted unanimously to pardon this 1994 conviction because it involved sexual conduct between two people who became husband and wife, maintained a long-term marriage, had a family together, and because the defendant completed his sentence many years before seeking the pardon which his wife and others supported."

Maybe that argument will put the issue to rest and Tim Pawlenty won't keep hearing it in the echo chamber as he runs for President of the United States, but somehow we doubt this is the last we'll hear of it. As Mike Dukakis learned 22 years ago in the infamous Willie Horton case, being soft on criminals can be poison for a governor's presidential ambitions.
http://blogs.citypages.com/blotter/2010/11/jeremy_giefer_tim_pawlenty.php


BillRM
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2010 11:17 am
@firefly,
Quote:
The case illustrates larger issues about the potential dangers of online dating and the way a victim's character can be impugned when online communications are part of the criminal investigation.


Let see online dating Firefly is that what you call it when call girls used the internet to line up paying customers for their businesses?

Strange I had done online dating and even found my now wife by means of CIS dial up network service in 1985 long before the internet was open to the public but no one had ever ask me for money for a date.

But then I was on dating boards not the call girls boards.

Second, what impugning was done to this woman character as there seems no question that she was an online call girl from the story.

To sum up this story is indeed about rape but it had nothing to do with online dating or the impugning of anyone character.

0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  2  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2010 11:23 am
@firefly,
I have said it before and I will say it again. Rapists know they are doing wrong. Any DECENT man would not take advantage of a drunk woman and no DECENT woman would take advantage of a drunk man.

The only people that have a problem accepting responsibility are the ones that would commit the crimes.
BillRM
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2010 11:23 am
@firefly,
Guess it once more times to post stories of men convicted of rape of family members and then found innocent to be innocent.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2010 11:24 am
@Arella Mae,
Quote:
I have said it before and I will say it again. Rapists know they are doing wrong. Any DECENT man would not take advantage of a drunk woman and no DECENT woman would take advantage of a drunk man.


True however the woman taking advantage of a drunk man is no going to prison.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2010 11:49 am
http://www.salon.com/books/int/2010/09/20/meredith_maran_my_lie_interview

Editor: Laura Miller
Updated: TodayTopic:
Memoirs Monday, Sep 20, 2010 08:01 ET
"My Lie": Why I falsely accused my father
For years, Meredith Maran believed her dad molested her. She talks about "recovered memory," and finding the truth
By Michael Humphrey

Cori Wells Braun
Meredith MaranTo read an excerpt from Meredith Maran's "My Lie," click here.
More than 20 years ago, Meredith Maran falsely accused her father of molestation. That she came to believe such a thing was possible reveals what can happen when personal turmoil meets a powerful social movement. In her book "My Lie: A True Story of False Memory" (the introduction of which is excerpted on Salon), Maran recounts the 1980s feminist-inspired campaign to expose molestation, which hit feverish levels in 1988 with the book 'The Courage to Heal." As an early reporter on the story, Maran observed family therapy sessions, interviewed molesters and steeped herself in cases where abuse clearly took place. Meanwhile, she divorced her husband and fell in love with a woman who was also an incest survivor. Maran began having nightmares about her own molestation and soon what had been a contentious relationship with her father turned into accusations of unspeakable crimes. Eventually, she came to realize the truth. She was the person who had done wrong.

Toward the end of her memoir, her father asks her, "What I really want to know is how the hell you could have thought that of me." Salon wanted to know, too. We spoke with Maran recently about how a false memory is born, what she thinks of "Courage to Heal" today, and what her story can teach us about such dangerous political narratives as the undying "Obama is Muslim" lie.

For a reader new to your story, and perhaps even the recovered memory craze of the 1980s, can you explain briefly what happened to you?

During the 1980s and 1990s, tens of thousands of Americans -- most of them middle-class, 30-something women in big cities, like me -- became convinced that they'd repressed memories of childhood sexual abuse, and then, decades later, recovered those memories in therapy.

In the years leading up to that mass panic, I was working as a feminist journalist, writing exposés of child sexual abuse, trying to convince the world that incest was more than a one-in-a-million occurrence. In the process, I convinced myself that my father had molested me. After five years of incest nightmares and incest workshops and incest therapy, I accused my father, estranging myself and my sons from him for the next eight years.

In the early 1990s the culture flipped, and so did I. Across the country, falsely accused fathers were suing their daughters' incest therapists. Falsely accused molesters were being freed from jail -- and I realized that my accusation was false. I was one of the lucky ones. My father was still alive, and he forgave me.

Why write this book now?

In 2007, I was out for a walk with someone I wasn't even that close to. She asked me if I'd ever done anything I was ashamed of and had never forgiven myself for. And without hesitation I said, yeah, when I was in my 30s I accused my father of molesting me, and then I realized it wasn't true. She stopped walking and stood still, just staring at me and she said, "The same exact thing happened to me." When I came home from that hike I started calling people I had known back then and speaking to some of the therapists I had seen during that period. With the exception of my ex-lover, every other person I talked to who had accused her father in the '80s and early '90s now believed she had been wrong. Being a journalist, you realize there's a story there.

There's an interesting arc in the book. As reports of molestation increase, you begin to believe you too were molested. And as reports of false memory increase, you realize that you were not, in fact, molested.

It's a little embarrassing for a person who's always been thought of as a critical thinker. There's a lot about writing this book and putting it out there that's embarrassing. It's not exactly the most flattering portrait. I think if it were a novel my editor would have rejected it, because the protagonist wasn't sympathetic enough. It really shocked me, I must say, to see how much influence the external had on the internal. That the most intimate emotions and relationships can be so affected by the dominant paradigm.

What surprised me was that your own discovery of molestation was more of a process than a single epiphany.

It really was a gradual thing. I don't think there ever was a time when I would have bet a hot fudge sundae on it. I remember telling my brother, "I think, maybe, this happened." And, of course, the statement of accusation is all it takes to put the wheels in motion. Either legally or in your family. One thing I've learned is the relevance of the phrase "the perfect storm." Not only for me, but for a lot of women I know who made these false accusations, it was very much a social phenomenon. Metaphorically, everything we were saying was true. But there was a confusion between a metaphor and a fact. And it was a highly relevant difference.

There were no legal implications in your case, and you never directly confronted your father. Would it have sped the process toward realizing the truth had you talked to him directly?

I was pretty terrified by my father. People ask, "What did your father say when you confronted him?" Well, I never confronted him. I withdrew from him, and I spent years sort of patching together this story and lining up the evidence.

Including a regular set of dreams that pointed to being molested. I wonder if you ascribe any meaning to those dreams now?

I felt a little stupid when I started interviewing the neuroscientists about how I could be dreaming something if it never happened. One of the doctors basically said, duh, a dream is a dream. It's not reality. It's not like something had to happen in actuality for you to dream about it, as those of us who like to dream about flying during dry sexual periods have experienced. But when I dreamed over and over about my father's hands, and all around me people were losing their heads and blaming it on incest, I said, oh, see, I'm dreaming about my father's hands. Obviously he molested me. It was just a few links that were a little extreme.

On the other end of the story, was there a moment when you could say, I have decided it did not happen?

That too went on for years, just like the process of deciding that he had. But when I stopped believing, it was a little more dramatic, during the breakup with my incest survivor lover. Over time, I had been less and less able to believe her stories, which progressed from incest with a slightly older relative to satanic ritual abuse, to the extent where I thought she was becoming defined as an incest survivor. I knew I couldn't say I don't believe her without examining my own beliefs just because her story is crazier. To my family, my story is pretty crazy too. When she left me, that was the break I needed to realize it was not true.

There is this amazing scene in the book when your father calls after you've sent him a birthday card for the first time in years and you recall that you sort of floated to the ceiling and could look down at yourself. And you hear your therapist say floating to the ceiling is what little girls do when they're molested. Can you tell me a little bit more about what happened to you that day?

That was a really good example of mind control, of brainwashing, that I had been so steeped in the symptomatology of incest survivors. How do you know it's true and what happens to little girls when they've been molested? All that stuff had gone into my head. That is a symptom of mass hysteria. I was actually transposing what I had heard from these little girls into my own psyche. When I heard my father's voice, I just went there.

Because the writing is so direct in that passage, I have to ask, what really happened?

Well, you know that feeling when you hear a voice you didn't expect to hear, that means a lot to you, and you feel weak-kneed? It was more like that. It was such an intense experience coming over my body.

At one point in the book you say, "I don't know if I'll ever be completely sure of anything again." But at the end of the book it seems clear that you have become as sure as possible that nothing happened. That's where it stands, right?

Yes. Not that I check my Amazon page or anything, but there have been some early comments that say I leave some room for doubt. That wasn't my intention.

An important catalyst for you and many women who later recanted was reading the book "The Courage to Heal." What's your opinion of that book today?

I feel mixed. The two women who put the book out are people I know. I have great respect for each of them as human beings and I think their intentions were nothing but the best. I happen to know them well enough to know that no publisher called them up and said, "If you will just make these really deceptive lists of symptoms and if you will write phrases like, 'If you think it happened, it happened,' you will become rich and famous. It's very hard now to understand the context in which that book was published. So if you take it now and say, how did they ever sell 10 copies of this book, it's such nonsense, it's easy to do. The movement that created that book doesn't exist anymore.

There's a whole body of work that came out of that time and mind-set, some of it feminist literature. Was there anything from that time that you think was useful or should it all be forgotten?

Oh no, no. In the book there's a conversation with a friend of mine who says very clearly, there were excesses, there were heartbreaks, there were tragedies in terms of our families. But at the same time, when you look at the overall impact on the world, I'm glad it happened. Kids didn't used to be protected the way they are now. Another thing, one hopes, is that a little girl who does tell, or little boy, is more likely to be believed than was true before all this happened.

0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2010 12:52 pm
@Arella Mae,
BillRM continues to try to excuse rapists and to discredit their accusers.

I post a story about a woman who had the courage to finally report her incest experience many years later, which led to her father's conviction for the crime. I then post a current story about a man accused of similar crimes.

So, naturally, rapist-apologist BillRM trots out his "false memory" stuff, as if to discredit all women who report incest many years after the fact. If he had half a brain, he'd know that incest victims often wait many years before they come forward or press charges--it is not uncommon. And most of those women did not have the memories suddenly reappear--they had never forgotten the experiences.

And the woman in the "false memory" article he posted did not have her father arrested. so it is not a case where an "innocent" man went to prison. But BillRM must think that juries are all dumb, gullible, and ready to side with the woman, when exactly the opposite is the case. Juries give the benefit of any doubt to the defendant. Men are not convicted merely on the "whim" or the word of the alleged victim--juries demand more than that.

I don't suppose it ever occurred to dumb BillRM that the father of that Manchester woman, arrested many years after the fact, might have actually confessed to his crimes, possibly in a plea deal. Even rapists sometimes do take responsibility for their actions. Taking responsibility for his own wrongdoings is apparently something that would never cross BillRM's mind.

I'm still waiting for his apology for attributing all sorts of false statements to me. He seems to be a compulsive liar, so he foolishly assumes everyone else does the same. No woman should trust anything he says--not that any woman in her right mind would want to be involved with him. If he really is married, they must be living apart or spend very little time together, because he's spending way too much time wondering about being in encounters with intoxicated women and thinking about how to get away with raping someone.

Another current news story about the rape of a college student...another crime BillRM believes rarely occurs. Rolling Eyes

Quote:
Police: UAlbany student attacked, raped while walking home
December 06, 2010
Michelle Kim

ALBANY -- Police are investigating the rape of a 21-year-old UAlbany student early Sunday morning.

According to public safety spokesperson Det. James Miller, the woman was walking home on Quail Street from Hamilton Street at about 3:30 a.m. when a man grabbed her and pulled her into a secluded alleyway.

The assailant forced the woman to the ground and proceeded to rape her, according to Det. Miller. The man then fled in an unknown direction.

The victim was treated at St. Peter's Hospital.
http://www.cbs6albany.com/news/rape-1280991-miller-street.html


hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2010 01:30 pm
@firefly,
After looking I can not find where Firefly said that the alleged Richmond gang rapers plied the alleged victim with alcohol, I there-for take back that statement, as well as the post predicated on it.
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2010 01:49 pm
@hawkeye10,
You might also stop calling me a "rape feminist" and claiming I have a political agenda, and that I have re-defined the words "rape" and "consent", and that I want the sex laws expanded. Absolutely none of that is true either...and you know it.

If you can't respond to my posts in an honest manner, don't respond to them at all.
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2010 01:55 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
You might also stop calling me a "rape feminist" and claiming I have a political agenda, and that I have re-defined the words "rape" and "consent", and that I want the sex laws expanded. Absolutely none of that is true either...and you know it.
your views are 99% in line with the rape feminists so I will continue to claim that you are one. I am taking back one apparently miss attributed statement, not my entire position on the matter.
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2010 01:57 pm
Statistics for rape are not decreasing everywhere. In NYC, they have been on the increase. And, in Scotsdale, sexual assault rates have also gone up...
Quote:
Scottsdale sexual assault rates rise
By William Pierce
November 2, 2010

Sexual assaults in Scottsdale increased by 20 percent from January to June, with 18 reported incidents so far this year, versus 15 at the same time last year.

Stephanie Orr, executive director of CASA (Center for Prevention of Abuse and Violence), sees firsthand the aftermath of the growing number of sexual assaults - especially in younger victims.

Scottsdale police Chief Alan Rodbell asserts that the sexual assaults reported in Scottsdale are not incidents of strangers assaulting strangers. All of the victims knew their offenders.

Orr does not want this staggering statistic to be minimized, simply by assuring the public that all sexual assault victims knew their attackers.

"Would I say (the number of victims) is rising or changing?" Orr said. "Absolutely," she answered. "Our sexual violence, our bullying, every form of violence is getting worse among teens and children, and the really alarming thing is (the victims) are getting younger and younger."

Orr said greater emphasis should be put on peer-to-peer counseling about what it means to be the victim of sexual assault, in order to bring down the number assault victims.

"I would like to see an incredibly enormous peer-to-peer movement," Orr continued. "Junior and High School girls really go down to seventh and eighth graders and start talking about this."

Patricia Klahr is the President and CEO of Chrysalis Crisis Centers for battered and abused women and children here in Scottsdale. Klahr would also like to see victims of assault and the general public to become more proactive in bringing these numbers down.

"People are choosing to stay in (abusive) situations longer and not contact police due to the (current) economic situation," Klahr said. "There is more physical violence now, because people are trying to stay with their family situation longer."

Orr remains adamant that these numbers must go down. "Until we commit and take action to bring effective prevention of sexual assault and abuse to children in schools," Orr said, "we will not see a decrease in this problem, we will only see it rising."
http://www.scccampusnews.com/scottsdale-sexual-assault-rates-rise-1.1740990
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2010 02:15 pm
@hawkeye10,
No, I have specifically told you I am not a "rape feminist"--which is a definite political-agenda oriented group. Since I have no political agenda regarding rape laws, there is no way under the sun my views could be in accord with that group.

Therefore, any continuing "claims" you might make about my being a "rape feminist" would be outright lies, and you could not support such claims with direct quotes from my posts. So, if you continue to label me a "rape feminist", you will be admitting you are a liar.

And the only definitions of "rape" and "consent" I use are those actually contained in state sexual assault laws. And I have expressed no desire to see those laws expanded. Therefore, I have not re-defined anything. So, if you continue to accuse me of having re-defined "rape" or "consent", or of trying to re-define "rape" or "consent", or trying to expand the rape laws, you will be admitting to being a liar.

Is that clear enough for you?

If you need a strawman like "rape feminists" to argue against, then go find a "rape feminist". You have yet to identify any prominent people in that movement. Because you're pushing a political agenda you need an antagonist with political views. Unfortunately for you, I have no political agenda. I only want to see the current sexual assault laws enforced. That's not even a political view, let alone an agenda.

You defeat your own position when you try to support it with outright lies.



firefly
 
  2  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2010 02:39 pm
Another betrayal of trust. A college principal/employer/acquaintance raped a threatened immigrant woman. This rapist certainly wanted power over his victim.
Quote:

College principal, 62, repeatedly raped African student while threatening her with deportation
By Daily Mail Reporter
6th December 2010

A college principal, who repeatedly raped one of his African students while threatening her with deportation if she resisted, has today been sentenced to 15 years in prison.

James Safo, 62, 'controlled, degraded and systematically sexually abused the victim', Croydon Crown Court was told.

Judge Simon Pratt said the attacks constituted a grave ‘abuse of power’ and was ‘one of the most serious cases of rape I have ever dealt with’.

The court heard the trained nurse left his 30-year-old victim haunted ‘day and night’ by her ordeal.

Ghana-born Safo of Kenley was the principal and owner of The Secretary College, Croydon, and also owned four care homes. His victim was studying for an NVQ at the college which offers courses in healthcare.

She was also employed at one of Safo’s care homes and lived as a tenant in one of his houses.

Judge Simon Pratt told Safo, a first-time offender: ‘Your course of conduct lasted 18 months or so and involved you abusing your position as college principal and employer to force her to have private meetings so your sexual attacks could happen.

‘You threatened to make life difficult for her with the Home Office by reporting she was in breach of her visa and liable to deportation from this country.’

Safo was convicted after a six-week trial on four counts of rape, one attempted rape and one sexual assault between June, 2007 and December, 2008.

He was acquitted of sex attacks on two other employees and students and a similar complaint was dismissed in 2001.

The victim told police: ‘Images of what this man has done to me haunt me day and night.’

She was pregnant during one of the rapes and later suffered a miscarriage.
Miss Hanna Llewellyn-Waters, prosecuting, said as the victim's landlord he effectively controlled her life and was guilty of ‘intimidation and coercion’.

Judge Pratt told Safo: ‘There cannot be a more serious abuse of power, it is a serious aggravating factor. The rapes and attempted rape were violent.
‘She described one rape as brutal and whether that rape caused her miscarriage is hard to say, but she will live the rest of her life believing it did.

‘She will have to carry the burden of what you did to her for many years to come. This is one of the most serious cases of rape I have ever dealt with.
‘It involved a betrayal of trust by an employee and college principal and a campaign of blackmail to keep her under control with threats you could have her deported.

‘The offences rely in your desire for power over others as well as sexual gratification,’ added Judge Pratt.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1336103/College-principal-James-Safo-raped-African-student-repeatedly-threats.html?ito=feeds-newsxml
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2010 02:40 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
And the only definitions of "rape" and "consent" I use are those actually contained in state sexual assault laws
given the variation in the laws, the broad language that allows for wide interpretation of those statutes, and the difference between the way the law works in theory and works in practice I don't think that you can then make any statements on rape in that case. You are refusing to define terms, and there for you are not prepared to enter a debate about rape. My operating assumption is that given your interest in the subject that you have indeed come to some conclusions about what rape and consent mean, but that you for some reason wish to keep your conclusions hidden. I would be interested to know why, but I also think that so long as you insist on playing these games that your statements should not be taken seriously .

Quote:

No, I have specifically told you I am not a "rape feminist"--which is a definite political-agenda oriented group
"rape feminist" is a derogatory term some of us mens rights folk use to describe feminists who are driven by and attached to their notions of the sexual victimization of women by men. Most of these people work in the rape industry, but some are authors and academics. So far as I know there are no self described rape feminist. Furthermore, I recall you earlier in the thread taking great offense at the use of the term, claiming that their is no such animal as a "rape feminist". Are you changing your mind? I suspect you are again up to you dishonesty, changing your position when it suits your current argument.
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2010 03:21 pm
@hawkeye10,
Look, if you don't want to adhere to the state definitions of "consent" and the specific definitions of rape/sexual assault given by each state, you really shouldn't discuss this topic at all. The states use those quite precise definitions when prosecuting rape cases, and so do juries when considering charges. The language of state sexual assault statutes is precise and not at all "broad".

Where is the "broad interpretation" of "consent" in the state laws of Washington, where you live? Consent--freely willing agreement--as indicated by the person's words or behavior--is not at all "broad".

You want to shift to a theoretical discussion of what you think rape should be and your notions of what consent should be. You've regaled us with your views on those things over and over. But that is not the reality of "rape" and "consent" as your state, and every other state, currently defines it. It is your idea of how you you want to re-write the current laws.

But this topic is about actual rapes which are violations of actual existing laws. And, for that discussion, we need to reference those actual laws and the actual definitions contained in the sexual assault statutes.
Quote:
My operating assumption is that given your interest in the subject that you have indeed come to some conclusions about what rape and consent mean


"Rape" and "consent" mean exactly what the state statutes say they mean--and each state lists those definitions as part of the sexual assault statutes.

Your understanding of law is abysmal. Criminal offenses are all very specifically defined by the state. Rape is a CRIME. The law defines it very precisely, as it does all crimes.



BillRM
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2010 03:49 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
I post a story about a woman who had the courage to finally report her incest experience many years later, which led to her father's conviction for the crime. I then post a current story about a man accused of similar crimes.

So, naturally, rapist-apologist BillRM trots out his "false memory" stuff, as if to discredit all women who report incest many years after the fact. If he had half a brain, he'd know that incest victims often wait many years before they come forward or press charges--it is not uncommon. And most of those women did not have the memories suddenly reappear--they had never forgotten the experiences.


FORTY YEARS.......Is not just many years and how in the world could any one defense against a charge coming out of the blue from the year 1970?

Lord this is bullshit of the worst kind.

Hell I am 62 and in 1970 I was in middle of my college career.

Love to have the police arrested me one day because of something I am claimed to had done in 1970.

Short of first degree murder in the US you do not go back 40 years to charge someone with a claim crime that old.

0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2010 03:57 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
Consent--freely willing agreement--as indicated by the person's words or behavior--is not at all "broad".

You dont think "freely willing agreement" is open to broad interpretation? So far as my understanding of the english language goes this could be anything from a woman spreading her legs to the requirement for a written contract. Washington tightens this slightly by saying that this agreement can come in either words or action, but that is not a whole lot of help.. There are degrees of "freely" and in "willing"as well as "agreement" as humans tend to live a lot in the grey area, we are not binary like a computer.

Your continued assertion that the law is fixed, clear and with only one possible interpretation is astounding..does this pig ever fly when you try it on other people?
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2010 03:57 pm
@firefly,
Quote:
Absolutely none of that is true either...and you know it.


Come on you as dishonest as could be on thsi trhead.

I love that you that you author of the article your posted concerning the call girl that got herself rape by a john was warning about online dating and crying about a woman character being question in court.

Well no one have the right to rape a call girl but that what the hell she was so why did you feel that you needed to insult everyone intelligent over the matter?


 

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