Hey, Can A Woman "Ask To Get Raped"?

@Oylok,

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5) Men who are embarrassed by the way the 1's are clobbering the 3's right now and just want this to end.

Interesting that you are following 11 members....all women. What, you can't stand men? Maybe just maybe your gender preference colors your opinion here?

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Why do put yourself in the same camp as Hawkeye, anyway? (You motives for being here seem quite different.)

I have stated my motives for being concerned about sex law many times, but just for kicks, what do you think they are?? I seriously doubt that you know.

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@hawkeye10,

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Interesting that you are following 11 members....all women.

I rate him reason 2) with a score of 8.4 out of 10.

The man is trying to get laid. I hope he doesnt get charged with rape.

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@Ionus,

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The man is trying to get laid

more likely the man hates men...ala Idiot Bill...Abusive father maybe?? Bullied as a kid by the bigger boys? IDK, but there is always a reason.

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@hawkeye10,

The most likely reason would be a domineering mother...maybe a libbie...if you want to see some whacko men you cant beat what libbies squeeze out....really sick puppies. Full of "women have had such a shocking time.....all throughout history all throughout every culture.....they have period pain and child birth and ...." which is nothing more than childish whinging in the hope of more protection.

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@Ionus,

original sin?

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@Ionus,

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he most likely reason would be a domineering mother

I think that is not right...the apple never falls far from the tree, men are all about our fathers not our mothers.....we strive either to be like our fathers or to be the opposites of our fathers. In the case of boys who grow up to hate men normally if it is because of the parents it is because the father was either a sh+t person, sh+t father, or abusive to either the kids or the mother, and so the boy becomes repelled by men. In many cases the repulsion is confined to the father, but in some cases all men become guilty in the boys eyes, and thus must be hated.

EDIT: on second thought you might be correct. If the father was a toad and put up with his wife controlling all home life it could be a case of like father like son. The son might be conditioned to reject the premise that men and women should be equal.

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@Ionus,

original sin? or just "momism"? be an Italian or in Indian mother purifying her preferential son (non daughter is not good
enough for her son." certain not in Indian where the mother stones to death to the unwanted daughter.

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@dyslexia,

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original sin?

No thanks...I am full.....

The concept of original sin (which I find ridiculous) is more prevalent now then ever. It is tied into the search for knowledge at the cost of humanity. There is no natural boundary to science...get it wrong, dust yourself off, try again....
Original sin is knowledge. Even 5,000 yrs ago they knew technology and science were against humanity. It was never about sex. That is a myth.

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@hawkeye10,

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the apple never falls far from the tree, men are all about our fathers not our mothers

I disagree. If a child has a bland relationship with one parent, the other can assume gigantic proportions. Which parent dominates the parenting also depends on the husband and wife relationship. A child is very atune to who runs the place. A domineering mother produces weak sons because they see their role as inferior to women....libbies think this is great till they need protection, when they realise that a man who thinks he has found mummy again is not likely to protect anyone. That is mummies job. She will sort it out.

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In the case of boys who grow up to hate men

Even sexually abused children try to appease their molester....This is one reason why men can be made homosexual by their childhood. They blame themselves for doing something wrong.....why would anyone return unconditional love with abuse unless they deserved it ? Boys who are abused (but not sexually) tend to hate their fathers and have a lot of difficulty with ALL relationships due to low self esteem, rather than just hate men.

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@hawkeye10,

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Yes, her and her pals have attempted to appropriate the word "rape" which once was used to describe sexual violence against women and converted it to a word that is meant to describe what they consider to be the injustice towards women that men want sex more than women...because you see, according to these people all that is supposed to matter is what women want. Men's needs/wants/desires are second class to theirs

Well, if you think I've appropriated the word "rape", then "my pals" must include the legislatures of all 50 states in the union, since they define "rape" just as I have.

The topic of rape has nothing to do with "injustice to women"--it has to do with the sexual assaults of people--the overwhelming majority of whom are females. Rape has nothing to do with women putting, "Men's needs/wants/desires are second class to theirs," it has to do with the crime of sexual assault--non consensual sexual intercourse--it has to do with the "needs" of rapists and the assault of others, by rapists, to satisfy those needs. Why are you equating all men with being rapists?

Laws against theft put the rights of property owners above the needs of those who want to steal. Are you suggesting we abolish those laws too, so everyone can just take whatever they want from another--with or without their consent?

Your alleged "expert on consent" is so impressive you don't even name him or her or cite their credentials. Furthermore, that unknown person made this statement:

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We do need to address the conditions, states of mind , and social structures that so overwhelmingly prompt, suggest,or compel women to consent to sex that they do not desire or want

So, your "expert" is addressing women who consent to sex they do not want because they are affected by the conditions, states of mind, and social structures that contribute to the sexual exploitation of women. And, I would agree that such consensual sex by a woman is not rape, and I have said that before. The college girl who consents to sex she might not want, in order to get or hold onto her boyfriend is not being raped. And if she consents because she feels that is "expected of her" or because "everyone else seems to be doing it" that is also not being raped.

You, of course, overlook the conditions of a society that does promote the sexual exploitation of women and the notion that women are sex objects that exist only to satisfy men's desires--something your expert is acknowledging as being a real problem. Your expert is simply saying that such general societal conditions, which pressure women into consenting to essentially unwanted sex, cannot be remedied by rape laws--and I agree with that. The sexual exploitation of women, and sexism in general, must be addressed by other means--for instance, encouraging those women to say, "NO" when the sex is truly unwanted.The purpose of rape laws is to prosecute those individuals who do not take "NO" for an answer and who then engage in non consensual sexual intercourse.

It is unfortunate that you are unable to fully understand the material you yourself post--and you've demonstrated that inability repeatedly.

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@hawkeye10,

Hawkeye wrote:

Interesting that you are following 11 members....all women. What, you can't stand men? Maybe just maybe your gender preference colors your opinion here?

Actually, I've read about 300 novels over the course of my life, 10 of which were by women. I'm using the "Following" feature at A2K to attempt to correct a bias. As it says in my profile, I have followed them into forums (e.g. "cute animals") where I would never otherwise have gone in a million years. And I still find myself relating more to men's arguments at A2K, despite all my best efforts at objectivity. (I have 10-20 dudes bookmarked at this point. Not you, though, Hawk. In fact, none of them are men who regularly post in this thread.)

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I have stated my motives for being concerned about sex law many times, but just for kicks, what do you think they are?? I seriously doubt that you know.

Back in an hour or two...

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Hawkeye wrote:

I have stated my motives for being concerned about sex law many times, but just for kicks, what do you think they are?? I seriously doubt that you know.

...This was in response to my claim that you and Ionus were in the thread for different reasons.

Well, for Ionus "the fight" seems to be about the fear of false accusation. In your case, you seem to believe somewhat more complicatedly that your sexual rights in the bedroom should not be dismissed as "second class". I don't know how well-founded Ionus' fears are. (I don't follow rape statistics very closely.) As far as your apparent beliefs are concerned, though, there may be certain situations where those beliefs could lead to rape.

Some freedoms must outweigh others. If it's a battle of wills--he wants sex at that moment, and she want to doze off and go to sleep--then do you honestly believe his sexual desire should win out over her lack thereof? Because, you see, at that particular time, one desire must take precedence over another. Her desire not to be violated is a first class right next to which his desire for sexual gratification is second class. Now the next day, of course, when they are deciding whether to go to the museum or the zoo, there is no reason the desire of either should be seen as "second class".

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@hawkeye10,

if i had my choice of being in a room full of only women or a room full of only men, i'd choose women every time, of course a mix would be the best, i don't get man cave mentality

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@Oylok,

Hawkeye, asked you....

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I have stated my motives for being concerned about sex law many times, but just for kicks, what do you think they are??

Well, I'm going to answer Hawkeye's question.

You've advocated that age of consent for sexual intercourse be lowered to at least the age of 12, so you apparently view 12 year olds as legitimate sex partners for 48 year old men, like yourself, and you don't want to be charged with rape.

You've advocated abolishing rape laws because they interfere with your sexual freedom, so apparently you want to be able to have sexual intercourse with non consenting partners without being charged with rape--since non consensual sex is the definition of rape in the state in which you live.

You've advocated for the legalization of child pornography because you apparently do not care that your desire to possess and view such material is part of the chain of child sexual abuse and sexual exploitation that starts with the manufacture of such materials in order to have them purchased by those, apparently like yourself, who want to view it. You do not care if real children are sexually abused and exploited in this manner, because your concern is with your freedom to possess it.

So, your motives for expressing concern about the "sex laws" have been crystal clear, and you've expressed them repeatedly. You're so incredibly self centered you fail to realize that the "sex laws" are, in reality, sexual assault laws"--designed to keep you from violating the rights and bodies of other people without their consent.

As long as you confine your sexual activities to other consenting adults, no one really gives a damn about what you do in your bedroom. So, your concern about the "sex laws" is all about your desire for non consensual sex and a corresponding desire to avoid punishment for it.

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@firefly,

Sorry Firefly the law in defining rape is not what you desire it to be in all 50 states now thank god!!!!!!!!!!!!

Most people are not even aware of the direction your group is trying to drive our laws toward unless it happen to bit someone they care about in the rear-end.

The average man or woman would be shock at what your crazy group is trying to drive society toward in the area of sexual laws.

States and even federal government politicians are for sale to any special interest group with either the money or the votes to buy them.

Only when the situation get completely nuts will the public at large take note and generate enough counter pressure to defeat your special interest group.

In that regard I had taken note in the examples you had posted all or at least the vast majority concern real rapes not the craziness you wish to promote. That along with your lying about a rape crisis existing at the same time that rape happen to be at a thirty years low tell anyone who can think where you are coming from.

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@hawkeye10,

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more likely the man hates men...ala Idiot Bill...Abusive father maybe?? Bullied as a kid by the bigger boys? IDK, but there is always a reason.

I don't hate men. I don't even hate you. But why don't you trot out all the simplistic cliches you picked up in PSY-101 about men who take women's side on the rape question. Oh wait...you've already done that.

You got one part right, YDK.

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@Oylok,

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But why don't you trot out all the simplistic cliches you picked up in PSY-101 about men who take women's side on the rape question. Oh wait...you've already done that.

Women side and the Feminists extremes side is not one and the same thing.

Firefly is not on women side in my opinion far far far from it.

Hawkeye and I who view women as adults with full adults rights and responsibilities are far more on the side of women then Firefly.

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@Oylok,

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I don't hate men. I don't even hate you. But why don't you trot out all the simplistic cliches you picked up in PSY-101 about men who take women's side on the rape question. Oh wait...you've already done that.

as you have already forgotten my hypothesis is not based upon you siding with the rape feminists, it is based upon you following only women at a2k.

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I know I am dumb for stepping into this, but:

Whatever occurs in a consensual relationship, and I mean known consent on both sides - yes.

"I know she was asking me to rape her" is not a defense, period. Just like, "I looked and the coast was clear", doesn't work in a car wreck.

1 Reply

@firefly,

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You've advocated that age of consent for sexual intercourse be lowered to at least the age of 12

wrong, I said 15. the 12 was when I was pointing out a study that says that 12 is when kids currently start to be sexually active.

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You've advocated abolishing rape laws because they interfere with your sexual freedom

I have advocated reforming the rape laws, taking them back to requiring force, and taking the situations of confused consent that no longer would be rape and putting them in the public health system. I would also require resistance so any woman who does not say no either in words or actions would no longer be able to claim rape, though if she ended up feeling violated I would have the public health sex counselor avail for both of the couple so that they could hopefully do better the next time.I advocate this because it would promote good collective sexual functioning, and it would I think cut down on these huge numbers of dysfunctional sexual beings that we have running around.

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You've advocated for the legalization of child pornography because you apparently do not care that your desire to possess

I have advocated legalizing pictures of kids so long as they are not depicted in a sex act, because there is nothing wrong looking at the human body, even when that person is erotically pleasing. There is nothing wrong with erotic excitement, and there is nothing wrong with finding children to be erotically pleasing.There is a lot wrong with having sex with a child, but looking at a picture of a person is not the same things as is having sex with them.

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So, your motives for expressing concern about the "sex laws" have been crystal clear, and you've expressed them repeatedly. You're so incredibly self centered you fail to realize that the "sex laws" are, in reality, sexual assault laws

My position is that the expansion of the definition of assault has rendered the word with far less meaning than it used to have, in any case it is used by the people who make the nutty claim rape is all about violence and not in the least about sex or the erotic, the "assault" is thrown in to frame the act as all about violence, which is a lie.....so I drop the "assault".

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Hey, Can A Woman "Ask To Get Raped"?

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